British Gas Standing Charge

[stuntman2]

Problem with British gas. Thinking of sending this letter to BG any thoughts / advice appreciated

 

I have owned this property for approximately 12 years and it has never been habitable for this time.

I received bills from Npower for £0 for electric and British Gas for £0 for gas. Because these bills were for £0 I used to simply throw them away. The bills were always addressed to 'The Occupier'

 

My problem is with British Gas.

The meter is situated in an outside cabinet, I have no gas appliances and no gas piping, the gas pipes terminate in the meter cabinet.

 

I received a bill from BG on the 31st August 2013 which showed that the actual meter reading was 1412 (same as 10 years ago) and that no gas was used and the bill came to zero (no standing charges ).

 

The next bill I got was dated the 5th August 2015 Which was an estimated reading of 1413 with a total to pay of £176.63.

 

I immediately phoned BG and explained the situation and was clearly told that I should change my supplier to one that didn't have a standing charge and that this bill would be cancelled as I had never had a contract with BG.

 

I did this immediately but then got a letter from BG to say that they had blocked the transfer as I owed them the £176.63.

 

I again phoned BG and spoke with a lady who was extremely rude and told me in no uncertain terms that I was responsible for the bill and should honor my commitments, not being happy with this I asked to be transferred to a supervisor, no supervisor was available but I was assured that a supervisor would ring me back. (I am still awaiting that phone call).

 

Since that time I have

 

Had standing charges added to my account

Had extra charges added to my account for a debt visit (£36.00) and an administration charge (£13.00)

Been notified that a legal warrant of entry had been obtained and a visit was to be made on the 25th April 2016 to fit a prepayment meter. - No visit was made

Been notified that a legal warrant of entry had been obtained and a visit was to be made on the 30th June 2016 to fit a prepayment meter. - No visit was made

Threatened again that a legal warrant of entry will be obtained to fit a prepayment meter

 

Questions that I have of BG

 

From the last 10 years bills (2004 to 2013) you should have known that no gas was ever used why didn't you inform 'The Occupier' that you were going to introduce a standing charge.

Why do you persist in wanting to fit a prepayment meter when no gas is consumed.

Why haven't you looked at my notes and made that phone call that you promised.

Why have you blocked my transfer (you could still have pursued me for the debt) instead heaping as much pressure as possible.

Why have you escalated the debt from £176.63 (4th August 2015) to £304.25 (8th June 2016)

Edited July 29, 2016 by stuntman2

[BankFodder]

By all means send the letter – although it probably won't do any good, but you may as well lay down a paper trail.

 

Have you checked your credit file? I think the you should do the straightaway.

 

Send British Gas an SAR – in particular you badly need to see whether there are warrants in place or whether they are telling porkies.

 

I suggest also that you read our customer services guide and implement the advice there and record some telephone calls with their customer service department to get evidence of their stupidity and of their unpleasant attitude. This will help you.

 

There are two routes that you can take. You could complain to the ombudsman – which will be free and may take a long time or you could begin a small claim in the County Court.

 

You may as well start to complain to the ombudsman and I would suggest that the letter you send makes it clear that you are making a formal complaint and you want the matter move to the ombudsman. This will start the process although you will have to wait eight weeks. During that time you should receive the results of the SAR and you can start to understand how serious this all is. You will also have been able to check your credit file and see whether they have blighted it for you. I should check your credit file regularly every couple of weeks for the moment.

 

After you have begun the ombudsman process, if it starts to get out of hand then you could abandon that complaint and simply go to court. We will be able to help you and we will be pleased to do so

[AndyOrch]

I understand having just helped someone on a similar problem... (no gas used) the only way to get rid of a standing charge form BG is to close the account tell them to shift the meter..or as you state switch to a supplier that has no standing charge.

 

Under new rules from the regulator Ofgem, energy suppliers have to offer energy tariffs that show: a standing charge which is the fixed part of your bill that you have to pay no matter how much energy you use.

 

It is often expressed in pence per day (p/day) a unit rate which is a price for each unit of gas or electricity you consume. It is expressed in pence per kilowatt hours (p/kWh).

 

 

 

Ideally you should have closed/switched it 12 years ago.

 

Andy

[stuntman2]

Andy point taken about 12 years ago but who should I have switched to?

Under new rules ............ how come some suppliers don't have a standing charge are they breaking the rules?

[AndyOrch]

More to the point what happened to previous 11 years Standing charges ?

 

Regulations from Ofgem ban gas and electricity suppliers from charging customers for energy used more than 12 months previous, if the error in billing is the supplier’s....but this is a standing charge...which obviously they have either failed to charge it or wrote it off?

[stuntman2]

Andy there was no standing charge it was introduced i believe circa 2013

unfortunately for me I was not aware that a standing charge had been introduced it was only when i sorted the mail (98% junk mail) that i came across the gas bill with the standing charge.

[nottslad]

As there's been no consumption and there's no contract in place, the standing charges are un-enforcable.

 

A deemed contract only comes in to force from the point at which you take supply. This is covered in the Utilities Act and Gas Act (can't remember the exact bit and not feeling well, but pointing this basic bit out should be enough)

[CrappoMan]

You mean http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/schedule/2B - section 8(1)

[AndyOrch]

Andy there was no standing charge it was introduced i believe circa 2013

unfortunately for me I was not aware that a standing charge had been introduced it was only when i sorted the mail (98% junk mail) that i came across the gas bill with the standing charge.

 

The following is from Jan 2000

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/601584.stm

[stuntman2]

As there's been no consumption and there's no contract in place, the standing charges are un-enforcable.

 

A deemed contract only comes in to force from the point at which you take supply. This is covered in the Utilities Act and Gas Act (can't remember the exact bit and not feeling well, but pointing this basic bit out should be enough)

 

can someone point me to the exact wording please

[BazzaS]

can someone point me to the exact wording please

 

Looking at s.8(1), as cited by CrappoMan

 

You mean http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/schedule/2B - section 8(1)

 

This gives :

"Where a gas supplier supplies gas to a consumer otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the consumer for the supply of gas as from the time ( “the relevant time ”) when he began so to supply gas to the consumer."

 

This will rely on

A) you not having made a contract with BG, and them wanting to enforce a "deemed contract", while

B) They can only create the "deemed contract" when they "begin to supply gas", and

C) No gas had been used, so they have never supplied any, preventing the existence of a "deemed contract".

[stuntman2]

i have never taken any gas (meter reads same as 12 years ago and pipes terminate in external cabinet in wall), or signed a contract. the only time i ever contacted british gas was when i received the bill in 2015. So can i assume that i have a solid case or is there still an element of doubt as to the interpretation of the gas act.

 

ps big thank you to everyone for their help.

[nottslad]

I think it's a pretty solid case here - you haven't taken supply so they haven't supplied you with anything.

 

There's some Ofgem guidance to suppliers on when a deemed contract exists - see https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/38477/guidance-deemed-contracts-standard-licence-condition-7.3-gas-and-electricity-supply-licences.pdf

 

"1.3. A deemed contract relationship will normally exist in circumstances where any type of

customer moves in to new premises, and starts to consume gas and/or electricity, without

agreeing a contract with a supplier."

 

Maybe print that and highlight it to them?

 

Do let us know how you get on, sorry I wasn't able to provide the exact details last night - thanks Bazzas for that

[stuntman2]

nottslad - many many thanks for that, I will definitely let you know how things transpire.

 

BankFodder - I decided against a SAR as that implies that I may have a contract, as far as I am aware they do not hold any personal details only details they have is 'The Occupier'

 

Thanks again everyone fingers crossed.

[CrappoMan]

BG may rely on the estimated reading of 1413, an increase of 1 unit, to say that gas had been used.

Make sure they have the actual reading of 1412, then there can be no argument over whether gas has been used or not.

[BazzaS]

 

Do let us know how you get on, sorry I wasn't able to provide the exact details last night - thanks Bazzas for that

 

No problem : it was an easy find given you and CrappoMan pointed the way!

[stuntman2]

CrappoMan - Glad you pointed that out, up to the bill for £176.63 (5th August 2015) the meter readings are shown as 1412 with £0.00 due. The bill dated 5th August 2015 shows an estimated reading of 1413. Future bills show an estimated reading of 1413 until the bill dated 11th March 2016 where the actual reading is 1412. I have since taken photograph evidence of the meter reading 1412 (last changed 1995).

 

Honest mistake I suppose.

[ericsbrother]

get it capped off and have it reconnected when the place is habitable. You can then be a customer of anyone you like as there wont be an existing supplier.

BTW how can BG prove they are the supplier when no gas has been used and they dont have a name for their alleged account. You could have a n account with someone else and they wouldn't know because their records will be that far out of date they wont have any paperwork to show that you dont.

[nottslad]

get it capped off and have it reconnected when the place is habitable. You can then be a customer of anyone you like as there wont be an existing supplier.

BTW how can BG prove they are the supplier when no gas has been used and they dont have a name for their alleged account. You could have a n account with someone else and they wouldn't know because their records will be that far out of date they wont have any paperwork to show that you dont.

 

The national database XOServe, maintained by National Grid and used by all suppliers lists who the supplier is for every metering point on the grid (other than those maintained by Independent Gas Transporters. There's no paperwork involved