JBW visit today Council Tax***Resolved***

[Capital_Con]

What you should be doing is putting your complaint in writing. It would be wise to maybe call the company merely to advise them that you are unhappy about the fee and that given the seriousness of your complaint, that you will be sending a letter to the company. If you approach it in this way I would expect the company to make a note on their records. This will hopefully halt any further attempts to contact you.

 

So that I do not have to read back on your thread, can you remind me whether or not you have a car outside of your property?

Sorry only just got these replies, I'm not sure how I would go about recording my own calls? They stated that all their calls are recorded anyway so they can check back to see exactly was said.

 

Ok I will send off a letter as well to see if that helps. And no there is no car outside the property.

[unclebulgaria67]

Put the phone on speaker then use a phone app or other recording device. Most ipods or ipads have a recording feature.

[BazzaS]

Sorry only just got these replies, I'm not sure how I would go about recording my own calls? They stated that all their calls are recorded anyway so they can check back to see exactly was said.

 

If it is a "smartphone" : use an app.

Android etc. apps can record calls "natively"

iPhones can record using an app alone, but there are excellent apps that record by using a conference call - due to this they don't work on Virgin ( due to Virgin's weird conference call methodology)

 

Apps tend to give better recording quality than speaker / microphone recording.

[BazzaS]

If it is a "smartphone" : use an app.

Android etc. apps can record calls "natively"

iPhones can record using an app alone, but there are excellent apps that record by using a conference call - due to this they don't work on Virgin ( due to Virgin's weird conference call methodology)

 

Apps tend to give better recording quality than speaker / microphone recording.

 

make that "Phones can't record using an app alone, BUT there are excellent apps that record by using a conference call - due to this they don't work on Virgin ( due to Virgin's weird conference call methodology)

[old bill]

One would expect a civil enforcement company to use commonsense when a late payment is due to circumstances beyond the control of the debtor. Unfortunately, all civil enforcement companies can see is the bottom line. The last time a social landlord pulled a stunt involving a tenant whose salary had been paid into their bank account late and the tenant warned them of it, the county court turned round and ripped the social landlord to shreds as well as refusing them a possession order.

 

This case smacks of a practice I believed the new regulations would stamp out, the practice of making unnecessary and vexatious visits simply to garner fees. Clearly, I believed wrongly.

[brassnecked]

Old Bill, the problem appears to be the same as ever with many EA firms refusing all affordable (to the debtor) arrangements at Compliance Stage, expressly to garner the £235 Enforcement fee, and most likely in the case of Capquita, add in the £110 Sales Fee before even gaining entry and a Controlled Goods Order.

[old bill]

Absolutely, BN. The other practice that needs jumping on is that of local authorities telling debtors they cannot recall a debt once it is with the bailiff company. Strictly speaking, a creditor is 100% vicariously-liable for the actions of their contracted enforcement agents and can and, where necessary, must recall a debt where the EA is acting in a manner that is likely to result in the creditor facing damages and costs exceeding the original debt or the debtor is likely to suffer unnecessary and avoidable injustice or a health condition is likely to be made worst or the debtor's life could be put at risk, e.g. heart condition or high-risk pregnancy.

 

I have also come across cases where EAs have used violence against debtors to gain entry. There must be a zero-tolerance, no excuse provision to ensure such EAs lose their certificate automatically without right of appeal. Because the debtor has no right of appeal when a thug EA beats them half to death.

[brassnecked]

I think some people on here do not believe in the concept of vulnerability, it would seem that it has become discredited due to being used by perfectly fit and able people to try to put off the bailiff.

[Leakie]

I agree with what you say BN

 

But people using it as an excuse to avoid paying .

should not be an excuse f,or the creditor or EA not to take the Vulnerability in too account

[brassnecked]

I agree with what you say BN

 

But people using it as an excuse to avoid paying .

should not be an excuse f,or the creditor or EA not to take the Vulnerability in too account

No it shouldn't but they do. The problem is that there are more can't pays as in families on Sanction unless they can get hardship are on Zero income, they can still claim the HB and CTB on the zero income head, but many neglect to do so and have the bailiff knocking, and as the council is infested by Capita with Equita/Ross 'n Robbers as the bailiff their debt soon is beyond repayment.

[old bill]

I agree with you BN and you, too, Leakie. It has been abused.

[brassnecked]

Sorry only just got these replies, I'm not sure how I would go about recording my own calls? They stated that all their calls are recorded anyway so they can check back to see exactly was said.

 

Ok I will send off a letter as well to see if that helps. And no there is no car outside the property.

It is surprising how many phone recordings are lost or accidentally deleted when a question is raised, so your own recording is really a good failsafe, especially where JBW is concerned.

[BUTTERCUP7]

Absolutely, BN. The other practice that needs jumping on is that of local authorities telling debtors they cannot recall a debt once it is with the bailiff company. Strictly speaking, a creditor is 100% vicariously-liable for the actions of their contracted enforcement agents and can and, where necessary, must recall a debt where the EA is acting in a manner that is likely to result in the creditor facing damages and costs exceeding the original debt or the debtor is likely to suffer unnecessary and avoidable injustice or a health condition is likely to be made worst or the debtor's life could be put at risk, e.g. heart condition or high-risk pregnancy.

 

I have also come across cases where EAs have used violence against debtors to gain entry. There must be a zero-tolerance, no excuse provision to ensure such EAs lose their certificate automatically without right of appeal. Because the debtor has no right of appeal when a thug EA beats them half to death.

 

This is a perfect example.....people need to realise that they have a perfect lawful right to make the local authority/council accept their payments for their council tax. This may well be not the full amount - but this does not matter. They can pay what they can, even as little as a £1.00 per week if they are in so much need themselves, and the council have to accept this. The council will purport to have all sorts of powers and authority....take you to court - which yes, is in a court - but it is in a side room with a council person!! Plus they get you to agree to pay alot more than you can afford!! I personally would insist on seeing the magistrate - i did ask this once and they were ALL horrified!! Then they send bailiffs now called enforcement agents - debt collectors to me and you! - they have no powers - UNLESS YOU LET THEM!! LOCK YOUR DOORS AND WINDOWS - DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR TO THEM - THEY WILL ONLY PUT THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR AND JAM IT OPEN AND TRY AND WEAR YOU DOWN - DO NOT DO IT!!!!

 

THEY HAVE NO POWERS TO PUSH PAST YOU OR FORCE ENTRY - YOU CAN REASONABLY FORCE THEM BACK IF THEY TRY - BUT THEY WONT AS THEY HAVE A LICENCE TO PROTECT....

 

DONT GET ANGRY - GET EVEN

 

I PERSONALLY THINK THEY HAVE HAD THEIR DAY - WE ARE ALL TOO WISE NOW AND THANKS TO WEBSITES AND THAT SHOW - CANT PAY - TAKE IT AWAY - IT SHOWS US ALL HOW TO PLAY THE IDIOTS...

 

 

Do not entertain them!!!

 

Go back to your local council - pay them what you can - they cannot refuse this payment! Set up your own arrangement directly with the council. Feck the bailiff!!!

 

i accept no liability for anything said above.

[old bill]

This is a perfect example.....people need to realise that they have a perfect lawful right to make the local authority/council accept their payments for their council tax. This may well be not the full amount - but this does not matter. They can pay what they can, even as little as a £1.00 per week if they are in so much need themselves, and the council have to accept this. The council will purport to have all sorts of powers and authority....take you to court - which yes, is in a court - but it is in a side room with a council person!! Plus they get you to agree to pay alot more than you can afford!! I personally would insist on seeing the magistrate - i did ask this once and they were ALL horrified!! Then they send bailiffs now called enforcement agents - debt collectors to me and you! - they have no powers - UNLESS YOU LET THEM!! LOCK YOUR DOORS AND WINDOWS - DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR TO THEM - THEY WILL ONLY PUT THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR AND JAM IT OPEN AND TRY AND WEAR YOU DOWN - DO NOT DO IT!!!!

 

THEY HAVE NO POWERS TO PUSH PAST YOU OR FORCE ENTRY - YOU CAN REASONABLY FORCE THEM BACK IF THEY TRY - BUT THEY WONT AS THEY HAVE A LICENCE TO PROTECT....

 

DONT GET ANGRY - GET EVEN

 

I PERSONALLY THINK THEY HAVE HAD THEIR DAY - WE ARE ALL TOO WISE NOW AND THANKS TO WEBSITES AND THAT SHOW - CANT PAY - TAKE IT AWAY - IT SHOWS US ALL HOW TO PLAY THE IDIOTS...

 

 

Do not entertain them!!!

 

Go back to your local council - pay them what you can - they cannot refuse this payment! Set up your own arrangement directly with the council. Feck the bailiff!!!

 

i accept no liability for anything said above.

 

Debtors need to realise that they have the European Convention on Human Rights and the Human Rights Act 1998 in their armoury against abuse of power and process by public authorities, which includes local councils and the courts. The term "public authority" also includes contractors to public authorities, which means that enforcement companies and EAs are subject to compliance with ECHR and HRA whilst working on behalf of public authorities.

 

Section 6(1), Human Rights Act 1998 states -

 

It is unlawful for a public authority to act in a way which is incompatible with a person's Convention rights

 

Under the Act, the civil courts have the power to make an order to stop local authorities breaching people's human rights and to award damages, where appropriate. Human rights cases must be brought within 12 months of the breach taking place.

 

I have attached a number of publications on human rights which CAG members may find helpful.

European Convention on Human Rights_ENG.pdf

Human Rights Act 1998.pdf

human-rights-handbook-for-public-authorities.pdf

[Peterbard]

Sorry OB but this is all FMoTL baloney.

 

You are aware that these conditions can be curtailed if the actions are compatible with the law and requirements of a democratic society, There are also we must remember the rights of the creditors, Particularly when rights to enjoyment to goods etc. is considered.

 

The exemptions to HRA only apply if the pertinent laws and guidelines are applied correctly so human rights issues may come into play in cases breach.

However courts give bailiffs a huge leeway,

 

In short if the bailiff is misbehaving you are better using the prescribe statutory remedies rather than pursuing an action under human rights if indeed you even can.

[old bill]

Sorry OB but this is all FMoTL baloney.

 

You are aware that these conditions can be curtailed if the actions are compatible with the law and requirements of a democratic society, There are also we must remember the rights of the creditors, Particularly when rights to enjoyment to goods etc. is considered.

 

The exemptions to HRA only apply if the pertinent laws and guidelines are applied correctly so human rights issues may come into play in cases breach.

However courts give bailiffs a huge leeway,

 

In short if the bailiff is misbehaving you are better using the prescribe statutory remedies rather than pursuing an action under human rights if indeed you even can.

 

I would suggest you learn the law, Dodgeball, instead of belittling other posters. Far from it being "FMoTL baloney", as you call it, HRA is a very effective means of keeping local authorities in line. Yes, they are amongst the worst offenders for breaching human rights, social services being regular miscreants. AA -v- London Borough of Southwark [2014] was one of the more serious cases of abuse of human rights by a local authority.

 

Are we to understand posting council staff in a magistrates court on the day council tax liability order hearings take place to prevent people going into the courtroom to challenge a council's claims in order that the council can obtain a liability order by default is permissible under ECHR/HRA? Because according to you it is. In my book, it is Perverting the Course of Justice and breaching Article 6 of ECHR (Right to A Fair Hearing).

[Peterbard]

No idea what the rest of your drivel is on about. By the way lets have some details of the case you pointed out , was this a HRA judgment ?

[old bill]

[/color]

No idea wht the rest of your drivel is on about. By the way lets have some details of the case you pointed out , was this a HRA judgment ?

 

And he is a link to the QB case you requested.

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2014/500.html

[neil_tp]

This is a perfect example.....people need to realise that they have a perfect lawful right to make the local authority/council accept their payments for their council tax. This may well be not the full amount - but this does not matter. They can pay what they can, even as little as a £1.00 per week if they are in so much need themselves, and the council have to accept this. The council will purport to have all sorts of powers and authority....take you to court - which yes, is in a court - but it is in a side room with a council person!! Plus they get you to agree to pay alot more than you can afford!! I personally would insist on seeing the magistrate - i did ask this once and they were ALL horrified!! Then they send bailiffs now called enforcement agents - debt collectors to me and you! - they have no powers - UNLESS YOU LET THEM!! LOCK YOUR DOORS AND WINDOWS - DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR TO THEM - THEY WILL ONLY PUT THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR AND JAM IT OPEN AND TRY AND WEAR YOU DOWN - DO NOT DO IT!!!!

 

This should be made a sticky Buttercup

 

THEY HAVE NO POWERS TO PUSH PAST YOU OR FORCE ENTRY - YOU CAN REASONABLY FORCE THEM BACK IF THEY TRY - BUT THEY WONT AS THEY HAVE A LICENCE TO PROTECT....

 

DONT GET ANGRY - GET EVEN

 

I PERSONALLY THINK THEY HAVE HAD THEIR DAY - WE ARE ALL TOO WISE NOW AND THANKS TO WEBSITES AND THAT SHOW - CANT PAY - TAKE IT AWAY - IT SHOWS US ALL HOW TO PLAY THE IDIOTS...

 

 

Do not entertain them!!!

 

Go back to your local council - pay them what you can - they cannot refuse this payment! Set up your own arrangement directly with the council. Feck the bailiff!!!

 

i accept no liability for anything said above.

 

 

 

Spot on Buttercup, this should be made a sticky, I can't fault anything you have said!

[Peterbard]

Not this argument again ! People have different opinions and no argument changes minds, so not sure what the point is.

 

Buttercup is mostly right. People don't have to deal with Enforcement Agents, unless it relates to a criminal fine, where they can force entry. If people want to pay what is affordable directly to those they owe money to, there is nothing stopping them, as payment cannot be refused. For council tax liabilities, those threatened with enforcement can seek help of Magistrates, where councils are trying to get a LO to farm out for enforcement.

 

I dont agree, although perhaps in part.

 

You see the sanction of a bailiff enforcing a civil debt is the fact that they can take goods and sell them for money(see definition of schedule 12 procedure.,

 

if they debtor does not deal with the bailiff that sanction will continue, so they will be in the same boat , with bailiffs banging on the door , not being able to leave goods outside vehicle at risk etc..

 

Now to some this would be no problem because they maybe accustomed to such things, however to many it will be unbearable. .

 

OK the debt goes back eventually, but it does not disappear, it may just be reissued and another bailiff take over and the fact that no one would engage with the bailiff is not going to go down well when they consider further enforcment methods, like committal for instance.

[Peterbard]

Also you do not have to deal with court bailiffs either if you dont mind them breaking in, you dont have to deal with police if you dont mind being arrested , you dont have to deal with the court, etc, it depends on what you may think is acceptable to live with.

 

For most people and yes it is most people, the situation they find themselves in is down to the fact that they haven't dealt with, the creditor , the debt collector, the court, the letter form the authority etc, I would have thought that when it arrived at the bailiff it would be time to take you head form up your backside and deal with it

[neil_tp]

Also you do not have to deal with court bailiffs either if you dont mind them breaking in, you dont have to deal with police if you dont mind being arrested , you dont have to deal with the court, etc, it depends on what you may think is acceptable to live with.

 

For most people and yes it is most people, the situation they find themselves in is down to the fact that they haven't dealt with, the creditor , the debt collector, the court, the letter form the authority etc, I would have thought that when it arrived at the bailiff it would be time to take you head form up your backside and deal with it

 

 

The subject matter was regarding council tax, do keep up at the back!

[neil_tp]

I dont agree, although perhaps in part.

 

You see the sanction of a bailiff enforcing a civil debt is the fact that they can take goods and sell them for money(see definition of schedule 12 procedure.,

 

if they debtor does not deal with the bailiff that sanction will continue, so they will be in the same boat , with bailiffs banging on the door , not being able to leave goods outside vehicle at risk etc..

 

Now to some this would be no problem because they maybe accustomed to such things, however to many it will be unbearable. .

 

OK the debt goes back eventually, but it does not disappear, it may just be reissued and another bailiff take over and the fact that no one would engage with the bailiff is not going to go down well when they consider further enforcment methods, like committal for instance.

 

Alot of may, it's, & buts in the above, however the actual bottom line is just deal with the local authority, it costs you less!

[Peterbard]

Alot of may, it's, & buts in the above, however the actual bottom line is just deal with the local authority, it costs you less!

 

Not if they will not deal with you, and of course bailiff fees will be due whoever you deal with.(if the debt is under an enforcment power.but of course you knew that).

[neil_tp]

Not if they will not deal with you, and of course bailiff fees will be due whoever you deal with.(if the debt is under an enforcment power.but of course you knew that).

 

You just wait til the EA returns the Debt to the LA, then nothing is owed to the EA company. Of course alot of authority's do not pass any money on either anyway. That's the great thing about FOI requests.

 

Must dash going outside in the nice weather!