HPH2/Cohen claimform - old Abbey OD from 1992

[RMS]

Usual suspects Howard Cohen/Robinson Way

 

I have received a letter sub titled as above. Is this the same as Letter before action.

 

The 10 days, are they working days or 10 straight days?

 

Do I send a CPR now, or do I wait until actual court action has started?

 

This is to do with a bank overdraft some time ago. so as I understand that a CCA is not correct. Do I send a SAR letter instead.

 

I believe this is statute barred, but at this stage I do not want to send that letter (there's a good reason for that).

 

Please could someone just confirm the above points, anything else I should be aware of and any complications that overdrafts produce.

 

I do need to act on this fairly quickly, as I don't want to sit on it and waste any preparation time I may need.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

bet it doesn't say will anywhere

 

 

if its SB'd [when did they cal it in?]

 

 

then you save that for when they file a claim

 

 

dx

[RMS]

It says "instructed to issue proceedings"

 

 

If you need SB info then I will PM you, don't want to put it on the forum, yet.

[dx100uk]

I don't need it you might.

 

theres nowt wrong with posting things here

 

the days of worrying about spies are well over.

 

instructed is the key word here

 

means exactly the same as might,could,poss, maybe

 

its a threat-o-gram.

 

what does your credit file say?

 

dx

[Sidewinder]

Is this a former Santander O/D now sold to Hoist? Lots of these coming out of the woodwork with Robbers Way chasing

[RMS]

There's good reason for not posting it here, spies or not.

 

 

What. the credit file says, does represent the timings, by several years. It's a bit like a DCA buying it today and started reporting it on file.

 

 

Yes, it was sold recently and it is Hoist/Robinson (same people now?).

[dx100uk]

the defaulted date cannot be changed

 

 

there no need to hide details

 

 

we've never ever seen any evidence of any person being 'compromised'

by hiding.

 

 

up to you

either you want help or not

 

 

dx

[RMS]

the defaulted date cannot be changed

 

 

there no need to hide details

 

 

we've never ever seen any evidence of any person being 'compromised'

by hiding.

 

 

up to you

either you want help or not

 

 

dx

 

 

Yes, I would like help. Perhaps you would be kind enough to answer my original questions, please.

 

 

You're right, the default date cannot be changed, but for the moment, I wish to concentrate on the other items and come back to that, if I need to. There is a good reason for it, I've said, if you need to know it, I will PM you, if you don't (as you have said) can we cover the other items.

[dx100uk]

its a threat-o-gram

not an LBA

 

 

there is little you can do to prevent anything happening mind

 

 

but if you've got no statements then an sar to the OC will not hurt.

 

 

anytime lines that you think you need to comply too are purely a threat to elicit a response.

 

 

IMHO you are concentrating on the wrong things

 

 

hiding details prevents us from advising properly

 

 

dx

[ScarletPimpernel]

I have received a letter sub titled as above. Is this the same as Letter before action.

 

 

No, it's a template threatogram.

 

The 10 days, are they working days or 10 straight days?

 

It's an arbitrary time limit in a templated letter sent by a DCA, so who knows, and who cares....

 

 

Do I send a CPR now, or do I wait until actual court action has started?

 

Wait until you have received a sealed court claim.

 

 

This is to do with a bank overdraft some time ago. so as I understand that a CCA is not correct. Do I send a SAR letter instead.

 

 

 

A SAR would do no harm, as it will let you discover if there are any penalty charges, but it goes to the original creditor, not the DCA.

 

 

I believe this is statute barred, but at this stage I do not want to send that letter (there's a good reason for that).

 

Please could someone just confirm the above points, anything else I should be aware of and any complications that overdrafts produce.

 

 

 

 

 

If it's statute barred then that will stop the matter in its tracks. If you are certain it's SB I cannot imagine any reason for not disposing of the matter at once by telling them, but that is a matter for you, and if you choose not to tell us the full story (which is, of course, also a matter for you), then any advice we give is hindered by not having all the facts.

[RMS]

Well, I decided not to make contact and see if they actually followed up. And they did, they must have a sixth sense,

because I had to go away for about a week, and the court form must have arrived the day I left.

 

I acknowledged service with intention to defend.

I put a CPR request in, but it was a bit late and as the defence has to be in by 4:00pm tomorrow I'm going to have to go without it.

I having been looking at the replies given on various similar type threads

and will use those as my template, with changes for my specific circumstances.

 

I would just be interested to hear, anything that is recommended, so that I haven't left out anything.

The difference with mine against most examples, is mine is not a loan, but an overdraft.

 

 

It happened in 2009, I can't remember the exact date, and there is a good chance that they have just got in before the SB date.

I've never acknowledged anything whatsoever, not responded to any communication in any way, other than the recent AOS and CPR request.

 

 

The account was opened around 1991/92 and the overdraft set up about 1993 and a requested increase about 1994,

it was in operation since then, but no adjustments to it, all of this was with Abbey, before it became Santander.

 

The court form says:

 

This claim is for the sum of xxxx in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number xxxxxx xxxxxxx

 

The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK PLC to the claimant and notice has been served.

The defendant has failed to pay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.

 

The claimant claims:

 

1. The sum of xxxx

2. Interest

3. Daily interest

4. Costs

 

(3. has more but is just standard wording)

 

Any pointers appreciated. Please note, that if you are reading this after Weds PM 22/04/2015 defence will already have been submitted.

[SabreSheep]

Sadly where you have not followed advice and left it to the last minute there is a possibility that the site team with experience in this field may not see this in time.

 

I have flagged it to the site team.

 

If you want help from here on in, you are going to have to be more forthcoming with information and more timely with your postings.

Missing deadlines and rushing things last minute are going to work against you.

If you had the SAR completed as advised you may of had the info to compose a SB defence if it was indeed SB.

 

Please goto this post and put the answers to the questions back in this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**

 

THEN

 

Please draft your defence here (without personal details)

 

Regards

 

SS

Edited April 21, 2015 by SabreSheep
Adding links

[citizenB]

What is the date of issue of the claim - top right hand corner of the claim form.

 

For a statute barred defence you would need to have not paid any money toward the debt nor acknowledged liability for 6 years, plus at least 2 months extra.

 

Is the overdraft made up of charges and how much is the claim for ? This will determine what track you are allocated and will let us know if you are going to leave yourself wide open for a lot of legal costs.

 

Unless you provide the information that has been requested, I do not think we will be able to help.

[RMS]

 

Please goto this post and put the answers to the questions back in this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**

 

 

I think most of this has been posted in some format or other earlier in the post. But here it is in full in one place.

Name of the Claimant ? Hoist PH 2

Date of issue – 20th March

The time line is tomorrow at 4:00pm, confirmed by a call to the courts. Defence will be entered onto MCOL today and sent tomorrow.

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

 

This claim is for the sum of xxxx in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number xxxxxx xxxxxxx

 

The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK PLC to the claimant and notice has been served.

The defendant has failed to pay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.

 

The claimant claims:

 

1. The sum of xxxx

2. Interest

3. Daily interest

4. Costs

 

(3. has more but is just standard wording)

What is the value of the claim? Just over £5K

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) - Yes

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? About 15 years before.

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned to Hoist

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

Not that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't argue that I didn't as it was some time ago now,

these weren't the original debt purchasers, it must have been resold on.

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

I don't believe I did, as it was a current account, not a loan agreement.

I still had a mortgage with Santander up until last month,

just had my letter thanking me for paying the mortgage off (lump sum) - quite surreal.

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” No, but as I said, at some stage the debt has changed hands.

Why did you cease payments? Santander pulled my overdraft without notice. They did this with a whole swathe of current account holders back in 2009. I thing it was Santander having clean sweep from Abbey days. The account had previously been run in good standing.

What was the date of your last payment? Sometime in 2009, but I'm not sure when.

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Not really.

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No.

[RMS]

What is the date of issue of the claim - top right hand corner of the claim form.

 

For a statute barred defence you would need to have not paid any money toward the debt nor acknowledged liability for 6 years, plus at least 2 months extra.

 

Is the overdraft made up of charges and how much is the claim for ? This will determine what track you are allocated and will let us know if you are going to leave yourself wide open for a lot of legal costs.

 

Unless you provide the information that has been requested, I do not think we will be able to help.

 

Claim form details in other post.

 

I think they are just in time to beat SB, hence the reason I decided not to respond to their threatogram, I was hoping it might drag on until the end of the year and I know I would then be in the clear. I would treat this as not SB.

 

The claim is just over £5K which as best I can recall, is about £2K overdraft, with the rest interest and charges.

[citizenB]

Issue date : - 20 March 2015 + 5 days for service = 24 March 2015 + 14 days to acknowledge = 07 April 2015 + 14 days to submit defence = 21 April 2015

 

Is there an extra allowed for one of the Bank holiday days ?

 

Thank you for the information, an alert has been left for andyorch.

[dx100uk]

yes 4pm tomorrow by my fingers because of the B/H easter.

 

 

why not ring satans bank and see if they will tell you the when they called the debt in

 

 

wont hurt you.

 

 

dx

[RMS]

yes 4pm tomorrow by my fingers because of the B/H easter.

 

 

why not ring satans bank and see if they will tell you the when they called the debt in

 

 

wont hurt you.

 

 

dx

 

I called MCOL yesterday to confirm, the exact date and time. I've just rung them this minute and reconfirmed, it is tomorrow.

 

With regards to phoning Santander, how would it help. If you mean regarding SB, is it not from when you stopped paying plus a couple of months, not from when they put it to default?

[dx100uk]

its from when they called in the OD.

 

 

dx

[RMS]

its from when they called in the OD.

 

 

dx

 

Bugger, just did some digging, it was May 2009 they called it in, early May if I'm right, could of even been the very end of April. I was close, but no cigar.

 

Hence my perceived evasiveness at the start of the thread about going for SB. I really wanted this to roll on for a few months, without acknowledging the debt by communicating with them. Some you win, some you lose.

[havinastella]

Why have you left this so late?

 

Have a look at other Overdraft claims and put your defence together so we (Andy) can look at it and amend.

[dx100uk]

Heres a more detailed version of an overdraft defence...obviously you would have to edit to suit your particulars....

.

 

1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the original creditor Lloydsicon TSB Bank.

.

2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account.

.

3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

.

4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.

.

5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interesticon within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion.

.

6. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

.

The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

.

(a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.

(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.

© Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.

(d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

(e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

(f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

.

7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated 4 March 2014 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

.

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

.

Regards

and nicked from a recent Andyorch post

IT WILL NEED ADAPTING to your POC

[RMS]

Why have you left this so late?

 

Oh c'mon how many people have you dealt with/helped here? Do you not see a repetitive theme?

 

A leopard can't change his spots. By the mere fact that people arrive here in the mess they do, is reflective of a general behavioural pattern. We are what we are.

 

The above is not sarcastic by the way, it is a response to your question. For what it's worth (not a lot) you and the others have my sympathies. I've been a member here for about 10 years (under various sign ons, because I forget passwords and change email addresses), I watched you people give good advice to people, only for it to be ignored. I can feel the immense frustration as you bang your head against that wall by your desk, which by now has a deep dent in it.

 

And very few people ever seem to come back and let you know the outcome, so that you don't know if your advice was successful or not.

 

I shall come back to tell the outcome, good or bad.

 

I have to go out now, I'll be back later. In the mean time, if as per my original request, if there is any pointers about things I must mention in my defence, that would be helpful to check. I don't see the point of posting a defence, only to be told there are many things I should have added. I would want to submit one copy, that is right from the start, rather than have to make changes,

[dx100uk]

post 22

 

 

dx

[RMS]

Well, having looked at all the post applicable and studied the replies, this seems suitable for my case.

 

I have checked the paragraph numbers match up and of course that the right bank and the fact that it is an overdraft has been checked.

-------------------------------------------------

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank.

 

2.Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever received any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.

 

3 Paragraph 3 is denied. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed consists in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 

(a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.

(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.

© Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.

(d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

(e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

(f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 

5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has not yet complied with this request.

 

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

The links icons and formatting etc, that the forum adds will of course be removed.

 

One thing I would like advice on, is that mentioned in post #13. Which track this would be allocated to. Anyway to complain if it goes to Fast Track (that's the expensive one for complicated matters?) or challenge this?