Deceived by the job center

[frozenelsa]

At my last job centre plus advisor interview, she decided to put me onto something she called 25+ skills support for unemployed. She printed me of two letters saying to go to so and so place at 10am for an assessment interview. I asked her specifically what this was and what would it entail. She said it would be an interview and a quick skills test so they could see if they could help with any training etc to get back into work.

 

I turned up today for there to be a large group of us, we are taken up to a classroom and told it is the first day of an 8 week course, mon - fri 10-4. None of us knew this, we all thought and had been told we were there for an interview and assessment. The people who run the course told us the jc+ keep doing this and not informing people what we are being signed up to do.

 

I was allowed to leave early to take it up with my jc+. I managed to see a manager who agreed my letter was wrong and I should of been informed of exactly what I was doing. He told me the problem was once I agreed to do courses like this it was mandatory and I would be sanctioned if I didnt attend. I told him I hadnt agreed to a course as I was only told I was going for an interview. He called my advisor over who sat and lied to my face saying she gave me the full information and the letter I was given was just a standard letter they use for everything. My reply was that the letter was therefore a lie.

 

The manager said he would look into and speak to my advisor about how she is dealing with me as I wanted to put in a complaint and this is how he is dealing with it. I fully expect at my next sign on date to be sanctioned again ( she did it before, I appealed it and won) because she now knows loud and clear I think she is pointless.

 

I would be very grateful if anyone here could help me with where I stand on this and what my rights are considering I was completely mislead and lied to about this. I am at breaking point with them and today was the first time I had to have a security guard stand behind me while in there.

Edited May 12, 2014 by frozenelsa
so stressed I'm missing out words

[Conniff]

First off, if you want to gain employment, why don't you want to do the course ?

 

 

You really need to put your complaint in a letter and preferably send it by recorded post so there is no denying they received it. Name the person you have a grievance with and what that grievance is.

[frozenelsa]

Doing the course is not the issue, the issue is being lied to about what it is how long for etc. I expected to be going for an interview and skills assessment to find out about if and what they could do to help me. I want help with the job centre and thier inability to communicate the course is not the problem the job centre is.

[rebel11]

Hi frozenelsa

 

Here's some info:- https://www.gov.uk/complain-jobcentre-plus

That is very underhand, it won't help your confidence and if anything it is very counter productive.

[essexmat]

"First off, if you want to gain employment, why don't you want to do the course ?"

 

Probably because like most people they recognise that these courses offer NOTHING in terms of learning new skills or building confidence and that they are a simple tick box exercise to make the DWP/WP etc feel they are doing a great job. The courses lead to NOTHING and you learn NOTHING and just sit in a room with a trainer with no skills whatsoever or no knowledge of the subject who is just as bored and peeved off as the participants are. So, basically, it is a just a waste of time

[Chester6]

First off, if you want to gain employment, why don't you want to do the course ?

 

Who says the course would actually help with employment? It's more likely part of the methods to stress people into quitting benefits like JSA and without a job

[essexmat]

Who says the course would actually help with employment? It's more likely part of the methods to stress people into quitting benefits like JSA and without a job

 

That is EXACTLY what it is - the hope you quit and get sanctioned

[Chester6]

I was on a two week version where it was impossible to fail, the ideas were basic and tedious due to how basic it was, a tutor got in trouble with the jobcentre for advising against applying for a job as the applicant would have been worse off, plus one tutor was extremely judgemental and some did get sanctioned due to this course

[essexmat]

I was told about 6 months in to signing on that I needed to go on an emplyability course for 2 weeks, every day, 9-5. When I looked at the agenda I said to my adviser "There is no way I am going on that" and then went on to explain why ... I never did go on it and my rationale for not doing so was accepted.

[essexmat]

...but the best one (repeated this on INGEUS thread) was the JCP wanting me to do a level 2 NVQ in customer service. I said "no" was then asked why so I replied "bit pointless when I have a level 4 already" ... cue red faces. They only had to look at my CV to see I had a much higher qualification plus a degree etc - idiots

[antone]

The saddest thing about it all is that there are some claimants (not all, of course, but some) who would in fact benefit from a well-designed and well-run course in something like "Employability Basics" - CV writing, jobsearch tips, interview techniques and so on. But few, if any, such courses exist because it costs money to design a good course and employ qualified tutors - and there just isn't any money.

[Lilly_Monroe]

The saddest thing about it all is that there are some claimants (not all, of course, but some) who would in fact benefit from a well-designed and well-run course in something like "Employability Basics" - CV writing, jobsearch tips, interview techniques and so on. But few, if any, such courses exist because it costs money to design a good course and employ qualified tutors - and there just isn't any money.

 

I was waiting to see my WP adviser a few months ago, and there was a course (well an introduction to it) just starting.

The 'clients' all looking totally disinterested asked what options in respect of retraining were open to them.

The course must have been about factory/warehouse related stuff, as many of them asked about training to become a fork lift driver.

The man taking the course said those courses are like gold (ie expensive) and we have none on offer - from what I could gather this course was about shop floor health and safety so all he was offering was a talk and film training days!

Useful I am sure, but not exactly going to get them beating a path to employ you.

 

Is it any wonder people do not want to attend these things, how soul destroying it all is.

[JoeyJoeC]

the JC+ is a joke. I went to this day course thing where they actually told us we needed to lie on our job applications.

 

Most of the people that work there were the people looking for the jobs, and were hopeless to the point JC+ were the only people willing to employ them.

 

They are rarely friendly to you, and can be very deceiving. I were docked £120 for being less than 5 minutes late from a building up the road that was falling down. Had to take the long way there. Thought that my excuse was good enough, but was told I should have pre-arranged to go the other way... what the hell?!

 

http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/hornchurch_high_street_closed_due_to_potential_building_collapse_1_947833?usurv=skip

[essexmat]

The saddest thing about it all is that there are some claimants (not all, of course, but some) who would in fact benefit from a well-designed and well-run course in something like "Employability Basics" - CV writing, jobsearch tips, interview techniques and so on. But few, if any, such courses exist because it costs money to design a good course and employ qualified tutors - and there just isn't any money.

 

I quite agree, but the system needs to identify these people and not just pick on random people who may have skills and experience which are ten-fold what these so called trainers have thus making the claimant resent the system even more by wasting their time. Let's be honest here, and I don't want to sound brash or rude when saying this, there are people with a total disinterest in working full stop and these people tend to be unemployable anyway due to their lack of people skills, basic English and Maths and inability to conduct themselves in an appropraite manner when in the company of certain members of society. These people can be found at any JCP or WP provider and usually leave after their appointment and crack open a can of super strength lager as soon as they are out of the doors.

[rebel11]

They need to be upfront with the info on the courses, they need to build confidence, be motivational, be relevant and lead to employment.

[essexmat]

the JC+ is a joke. I went to this day course thing where they actually told us we needed to lie on our job applications.

 

Most of the people that work there were the people looking for the jobs, and were hopeless to the point JC+ were the only people willing to employ them.

 

They are rarely friendly to you, and can be very deceiving. I were docked £120 for being less than 5 minutes late from a building up the road that was falling down. Had to take the long way there.

http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/hornchurch_high_street_closed_due_to_potential_building_collapse_1_947833?usurv=skip

 

My old stomping ground - used to go to Havering College in Ardleigh Green Road many moons ago.

 

You were sanctioned for being 5 minutes late due to a health and safety matter? Hope you challenged it and won?

[jasta11]

At my last job centre plus advisor interview, she decided to put me onto something she called 25+ skills support for unemployed. She printed me of two letters saying to go to so and so place at 10am for an assessment interview. I asked her specifically what this was and what would it entail. She said it would be an interview and a quick skills test so they could see if they could help with any training etc to get back into work.

 

I turned up today for there to be a large group of us, we are taken up to a classroom and told it is the first day of an 8 week course, mon - fri 10-4. None of us knew this, we all thought and had been told we were there for an interview and assessment. The people who run the course told us the jc+ keep doing this and not informing people what we are being signed up to do.

 

I was allowed to leave early to take it up with my jc+. I managed to see a manager who agreed my letter was wrong and I should of been informed of exactly what I was doing. He told me the problem was once I agreed to do courses like this it was mandatory and I would be sanctioned if I didnt attend. I told him I hadnt agreed to a course as I was only told I was going for an interview. He called my advisor over who sat and lied to my face saying she gave me the full information and the letter I was given was just a standard letter they use for everything. My reply was that the letter was therefore a lie.

 

The manager said he would look into and speak to my advisor about how she is dealing with me as I wanted to put in a complaint and this is how he is dealing with it. I fully expect at my next sign on date to be sanctioned again ( she did it before, I appealed it and won) because she now knows loud and clear I think she is pointless.

 

I would be very grateful if anyone here could help me with where I stand on this and what my rights are considering I was completely mislead and lied to about this. I am at breaking point with them and today was the first time I had to have a security guard stand behind me while in there.

 

Sorry to hear about this, it sounds a really nasty trick to pull - no doubt done so the advisor could make up her target figures for the week and get people on courses, whether done properly or deceitfully. You definitely need to complain - and loudly too.

 

If the letter just said 'attend on X day for an interview and assessment' then no way is that adequate notice for an 8-week course. Plus, if you were indeed starting a course of this length the advisor would have also needed to discuss expenses, bus pass, etc if required and other paperwork. I hope you kept these letters as proof and didn't let the JC manager keep hold of them, where they'll no doubt be promptly 'lost'.

 

Might pay you to start recording ALL meetings with the JC from now on. I've done this for months and it's a shame that we have to do this in order to protect ourselves from these unscrupulous people who are supposed to be helping us. Whether you want to do the course or not is not the issue; you should have been properly informed at all times what was happening.

 

I'd complain to the DWP District Manager, PCS Union and also threaten to go to your MP and the media if necessary. No use relying on the JC manager - he's no doubt fully aware of what his staff are up to; in fact, he probably told them to do it!

 

Good luck and keep us informed as to what happens.

[frozenelsa]

Sorry to hear about this, it sounds a really nasty trick to pull - no doubt done so the advisor could make up her target figures for the week and get people on courses, whether done properly or deceitfully. You definitely need to complain - and loudly too.

 

If the letter just said 'attend on X day for an interview and assessment' then no way is that adequate notice for an 8-week course. Plus, if you were indeed starting a course of this length the advisor would have also needed to discuss expenses, bus pass, etc if required and other paperwork. I hope you kept these letters as proof and didn't let the JC manager keep hold of them, where they'll no doubt be promptly 'lost'.

 

Might pay you to start recording ALL meetings with the JC from now on. I've done this for months and it's a shame that we have to do this in order to protect ourselves from these unscrupulous people who are supposed to be helping us. Whether you want to do the course or not is not the issue; you should have been properly informed at all times what was happening.

 

I'd complain to the DWP District Manager, PCS Union and also threaten to go to your MP and the media if necessary. No use relying on the JC manager - he's no doubt fully aware of what his staff are up to; in fact, he probably told them to do it!

 

Good luck and keep us informed as to what happens.

 

I went to this course today and spent most of the day in groups (like school children) putting together a cover letter for an imaginary job. The last part of the day was spent with me glaring open mouthed at a woman, who has been signing on for over 10 years with no problems and is only actively seeking a job now so her husband can move over from India. I gained nothing. They apparently mainly offer IT courses with very few computers so yes so far seems rather pointless. The tutor also didnt make it through university and does not inspire much confidance.

 

I have no doubt in my mind the floor manager I spoke to does not give a single crap about what happened. I certainly intend to write a formal complaint to the highest manager at my JC+ about this. My advisor discussed nothing with me about this other than telling me it was an interview and maybe a quick skills test to see if and what they could help Me with. No expenses mentioned, paperwork etc nothing. She also flat out lied to the floor manager telling him she told me everything which is what made me snap.

 

How do I find out who my DWP district manager is? last time I tried to direct contact my JC+ via phone I was given a number for Leeds, not helpful when I live in Leicester. I have no idea who PCS union are but I shall google away.

 

As for the letters I was given by my advisor about this, the course tutor wanted me to hand over one for their records (the one that states I am there for an interview, the other says to just turn up to this place), I so far have managed to keep hold of it.

 

Just to add about the interview letter, my advisor said this was just a standard letter they give to everyone for everything no matter what they are putting you on.

Edited May 13, 2014 by frozenelsa

[jasta11]

The PCS Union are the DWP's own union, but while they fight for the rights of the DWP, they also come down heavily on them if they don't stick to the rules. They're actually against a lot of DWP schemes - including this new 'Help To Work' scheme and they're strongly opposed to JC staff trying to sanction people unlawfully to make targets. For example, last year they issued the JC with clear instructions not to tell customers they had to give them access to their UJ accounts. (I've shown a copy of this memo to advisors who've lied to me about accessing my UJ and it shut them up instantly - I still reported them though )

 

Always worth mentioning complaining to the union; no worker ever wants problems with their union.. neither do their bosses.

 

Website is here; http://www.pcs.org.uk/ Well worth checking it regularly for new guidance.

 

I've found a list of DWP District Managers (link below). You can work out which one is yours (I'm useless at geography). I think it's a fairly recent list, you can give it a try anyway.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281344/jcp-district-managers.pdf

[frozenelsa]

The PCS Union are the DWP's own union, but while they fight for the rights of the DWP, they also come down heavily on them if they don't stick to the rules. They're actually against a lot of DWP schemes - including this new 'Help To Work' scheme and they're strongly opposed to JC staff trying to sanction people unlawfully to make targets. For example, last year they issued the JC with clear instructions not to tell customers they had to give them access to their UJ accounts. (I've shown a copy of this memo to advisors who've lied to me about accessing my UJ and it shut them up instantly - I still reported them though )

 

Always worth mentioning complaining to the union; no worker ever wants problems with their union.. neither do their bosses.

 

Website is here; http://www.pcs.org.uk/ Well worth checking it regularly for new guidance.

 

I've found a list of DWP District Managers (link below). You can work out which one is yours (I'm useless at geography). I think it's a fairly recent list, you can give it a try anyway.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281344/jcp-district-managers.pdf

 

 

Thankyou very much, I fully intend to dig my heels in with this one and Im sick of my advisor treating me like crap. She saw me quite obviously as an easy target.

[jasta11]

Good luck. I've posted this elsewhere but have a look at this page from the PCS union site, where they did a survey of JC advisers and you'll see just what we're all up against.

 

According to the survey almost two thirds of advisers admit to being pressured to make inappropriate sanctions. I suspect the figure is a lot higher. It's a disgrace. I've already showed it to a few advisers at my JC (naturally they aren't the ones doing it though..yeah right!)

 

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/sanctions-ineffective-jobcentre-staff-say

[frozenelsa]

Good luck. I've posted this elsewhere but have a look at this page from the PCS union site, where they did a survey of JC advisers and you'll see just what we're all up against. According to the survey 1 in 4 advisers admit to making 'inappropriate' sanctions. I suspect the figure is a lot higher. It's a disgrace. I've already showed it to a few advisers at my JC (naturally they aren't the ones doing it though..yeah right!)

 

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/sanctions-ineffective-jobcentre-staff-say

 

I know all about inappropriate sanctions, my advisor sanctioned me the 2nd time she saw me. She said I hadnt been doing my jobsearch,applying for jobs etc. Its amazing how that same day my first universal jobmatch account vanished off their system (I believe she used that as a reason to sanctiopn me). I appealed it, won made a new uj account and denied them access to it. My advisor is obviously trying to trip me up and has been trying to since she first met me. She did this with ingeus and a 4 week work thing. I guess recording all meeting is the only way I can cover myself, I was also denied changing advisor and was told flat out no it cant be done.

[Mr.P]

My advisor discussed nothing with me about this other than telling me it was an interview and maybe a quick skills test to see if and what they could help Me with. No expenses mentioned, paperwork etc nothing. She also flat out lied to the floor manager telling him she told me everything which is what made me snap.

 

As for the letters I was given by my advisor about this, the course tutor wanted me to hand over one for their records (the one that states I am there for an interview, the other says to just turn up to this place), I so far have managed to keep hold of it.

 

If you suspect that this, or any other adviser, is going to wilfully deceive you again, record all conversations - You will have to be creative and be discrete when doing so or they will object like hell about it. Last time I had to resort to using underhand methods, I'd place a cheap dictaphone on the desk (not running), beside it, place a soft case which contained a digital recorder (powered and recording), and as backup, a tie-clip mike hooked up to a third recorder. (links are examples only).

 

As for the letter(s) - Photocopy them and file the originals somewhere safe. If the provider insists on being given the letter, tell them that is addressed to yourself and is confidential. If they press the issue, hand over a photocopy.

 

 

I hope you are keeping all your bus/train tickets - Make sure that travel expenses are reimbursed in full and without any strings attached.

[frozenelsa]

If you suspect that this, or any other adviser, is going to wilfully deceive you again, record all conversations - You will have to be creative and be discrete when doing so or they will object like hell about it. Last time I had to resort to using underhand methods, I'd place a cheap dictaphone on the desk (not running), beside it, place a soft case which contained a digital recorder (powered and recording), and as backup, a tie-clip mike hooked up to a third recorder. (links are examples only).

 

As for the letter(s) - Photocopy them and file the originals somewhere safe. If the provider insists on being given the letter, tell them that is addressed to yourself and is confidential. If they press the issue, hand over a photocopy.

 

 

I hope you are keeping all your bus/train tickets - Make sure that travel expenses are reimbursed in full and without any strings attached.

 

I can use my phone, the screen goes black but keeps recording with nothing but the blue LED notification light flashing. Plop it on the desk in front of me and sorted.

 

I have no intention at all of handing over my original letters and the post office round the corner can photocopy them for me.

 

Yes I am keeping all bus tickets £4.20 a day so yes they will be paying it back.

[jasta11]

It can be hard for some people to assert themselves - I'm all for a quiet life - but you reach a stage where you have to do it, or you'll just get picked on. Hopefully if you complain loud enough and back it up with their own guidance she'll leave you alone and switch to someone else.

 

The JC seem to have the impression that everything is all one-way ie they tell you what to do and you just have to accept it, but they're public servants who actually have far more rules to follow than we do; if they don't follow them then they too can be reported - and to a lot more people too.