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hi

 

today my manager told me that someone that we both know has told her that i called her a b*****d.

 

as much as i dont get on with this person, as do none of the staff that work under her, b*****d is not a word i use and not one i would use to describe her. i had stood up to her previously and i feel that she has made up this story to try to create a negative situation that might cost me my place at work...or to force my resignation.

 

she has been working at our place of employment 1 week and already 2 people have left due to her pushy superior corporate attitude.

 

when she told me what had been said to her i denied it of course and having felt bullied by her previously i walked out of my job.

 

my head office have already said that they are happy to transfer me to another branch but i will miss my workmates and would resent myself for leaving with this person.

 

we all feel we are being pressured and bullied and forced to meet unrealistic expectations so that she may please her superiors and climb the career ladder.

 

i really would love my job back but i dont know what my rights are or how i might go about approaching this person again.

Edited by KarinaJN
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Honestly I'd take the offer of another branch and not consider moving back until this one has moved on. If they've let 2 or 3 people walk, they're obviously not going to tackle her - save yourself the pain!

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thanks emmzzi but im not one to roll over and die so easy. the issue is that my manager has tried to provoke a situation with a falsity and i would like to openly dispute this at a higher level.

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who has the power here?

 

are you in a union?

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what do you mean who has the power? there are x amount of us and one of them.

no i am not a union member but i am prepared to stand up for myself and not be bullied.

 

again-the issue is that my superior has made a false accusation against me that was intended to have a specific outcome to my detriment.

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in the heat of the moment yes i walked away from my position at this branch.

 

i was after some constructive advice actually and wanted more to discuss the events that led to my grievance.

 

i refuse to accept this defeated stance you advise and would prefer to hear from someone who might be better at defining the wrong doing of my manager in the first instance-this you seem to completely overlook.

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The question now. Are you still employed by the company? If so, what have they said about you walking off the job? If they have allowed you to keep your job, as stated earlier, i would jump at the chance of moving to a different branch. Sure youll lose friends, but if they were real friends, theyd keep in touch anyway.

 

As emmzzi stated, If theyve already let people leave because of this woman, then theyve shown that they wont do anything about her. It's good of you to state that you are willing to stand your ground, but without backing of the union or similar, all that you will achieve is dismissal for possible GM.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Hi KarinaJN

 

If you are determined and feel you will be happy going back. Then raise a Formal Grievance in writing, send it to HR, send it Recorded Delivery.

 

Raise all the issues you are having e.g. she's causing conflict by making stuff up, etc.

 

If you can get support from your co-workers, that would be helpful to demonstrate that it's an unhappy environment and yours isn't an isolated incident.

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1670

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Hi KarinaJN

 

From what you initially posted it seemed like the Manager followed through investigating allegation made to them of you saying XYZ and during this you decide to walkout of the branch.

 

In post#7 you now mention a Grievance not previously mentioned, was this grievance against the same Manager and is it still ongoing?

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renegadeimp-no one has 'let' anyone leave their job. people are free to terminate their employment for whatever reason with no notice, no explanations..and thats what they have done. sadly.

 

rebel-yes! thank you. informal grievance! ..and yes i am sure i can count on the backing of other members of staff who might submit their own informal grievance themselves.

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An Informal Grievance or a Formal Grievance?

 

renegadeimp-no one has 'let' anyone leave their job. people are free to terminate their employment for whatever reason with no notice, no explanations..and thats what they have done. sadly.

 

rebel-yes! thank you. informal grievance! ..and yes i am sure i can count on the backing of other members of staff who might submit their own informal grievance themselves.

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no stu-my grievance is with my manager making this accusation against me that i had allegedly called her a 'xyz'. the manager hasnt investigated anything and when i was told that she had heard that i had called her an 'xyz' it was completely off the record and i can say with certainty that it was meant for my ears only.

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I think Emmzzi made the point fairly well.

 

If they've let 2 or 3 people walk, they're obviously not going to tackle her - save yourself the pain![/Quote]

 

The fact is that this is a Manager, and whether your opinion of her is correct or not, it does not seem to be one which is shared by your employer. She has made an allegation. Fair enough it is false, but can you prove it to be so? You say that you know the person who is alleged to have told your manager this? Have you spoken to her? Would she deny that the conversation took place?

 

Secondly, you walked out. This could cause you trouble in itself. You say that it is due to feeling bullied previously, but what evidence is there of that? Have you ever made this a matter of record? If not, then as a manager, her version of events could carry considerable weight. Even if the perceived dislike of you by this manager is true, you will need evidence or at least the support of witnesses who would be prepared to back you. Would they do that, or would you be a lone voice, despite whatever may be said behind the manager's back? The manager may even refuse to have you back - you have no rights, as you walked out!

 

You mention the word grievance - have you raised one over this manager? Do you intend to, as that is about as far as you can push this particular point? How likely would it be that it would be upheld, based on the possibility that there may be no obvious history of any problem, and the possibility that your colleagues do not stand up to be counted? Even if a grievance is upheld, what do you expect the outcome to be? In all likelihood, the resolution would be to move you, not the manager, to another branch, so what would you have gained? If the grievance is not upheld, you might then be in a position of having to work with a manager who knows that you don't like her, are unlikely to support her and she may be looking for ever lawful way of making life very difficult for you.

 

Defeated stance? I don't think so. You need a LOT more than you have told us here to do more than raise a grievance, so I think the suggestion that you take the move to another branch might be a sensible one. Your manager might be making this up, but there is a world of difference between thinking it and proving it - on the face of it (and certainly on the limited evidence available to the employer) the manager was within her rights to challenge what she had been told that you said. Without proof it sounds like a playground argument.

 

How long have you worked there? What is your record like with previous managers?

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sidewinder-if your neighbour said to you that you have stolen his shower gel and you have no idea what he is talking about then it is not your duty to prove your innocence..nor are you obliged to prove your neighbour is a delusional trouble maker.

 

i didnt say i know the person who made the allegation to the manager-it was the manager who said to me that it was a person that we both know and i have no idea nor do i know anyone who would say such a thing so i can only guess that it is a creation of her own troublesome imagination.

 

i have worked at this branch for 10 years and the manager has worked here for 1 week and already upset absolutely everybody.

 

yes it is indeed a playground argument and had it happened 45 years ago i might not have even mentioned it to my parents on my return home from infant school. the problem is that we are both adults and only one of us is acting like one and i think that a person with this attitude shouldnt be working in a position where they get to be abusive with their 'power'.

 

my history with my previous manager is absolutely amazing.

 

it is indeed a defeated stance with the tail between the legs when you let another human being walk all over you and lie about you only because she thinks she can and because people like yourself allow it. im sorry that i am not so spineless otherwise i might be a better employee.

 

again-no one 'let' anyone walk out of their job, they did it entirely of their own free will and i doubt they told anyone of their reasons for doing it for fear of staining their next application for employment.

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You did it out of your own free will, and you can be dismissed with immediate effect for it. Thats why we were asking the question as well as an accompanying one, which you keep sidestepping.

 

We know you seem to be a tough character who wants to fight for what is right, but really you need to stay within the rules etc and not try and turn it into a crusade.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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sidewinder-if your neighbour said to you that you have stolen his shower gel and you have no idea what he is talking about then it is not your duty to prove your innocence..nor are you obliged to prove your neighbour is a delusional trouble maker.

 

No, but this isn't an argument between neighbours, it is a dispute between manager and subordinate and in those circumstances the rules are very different.

 

For what it is worth, I think your sense of injustice is spot on, but the barriers that you face are not made smaller by this. You want to fight, but you can only do this within a very specific framework. Calling the manager a liar is out. As is an open fist fight to determine who is the better or stronger. Refusing to work with her will only end in your own demise - and you could already face disciplinary action for walking out. There is no cause of action to take the matter to a Tribunal as even a claim for Constructive Dismissal would be unsuccessful due to this being (on paper at least) an isolated incident rather than a documented and evidenced catalog of bad behaviour, and due to not having used any grievance procedure prior to being forced to leave.

 

You are therefore left with two options. The first, as stated several times already would be a formal grievance to HR, either individually or better collectively with colleagues, citing and evidencing bullying or harassing behaviour, performance issues, losing the confidence of the workforce etc. The second is to accept a role in another branch and hope that in time this person will cook her own goose, leave and allow you to request a transfer back to your current branch.

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which question am i side stepping?

 

of course i walked out from a situation where i felt i was being psychologically and emotionally abused. what else would i be expected to do? just go back to my work place and pretend nothing had happened?

 

if i had the sense and stamina to tolerate the accusation i would have called head office and put it on record before leaving-but thats not how smoothly things run in the real world.

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that is very fair advice sidewinder. there hasnt been a document catalog of grievances but im hoping that were i able to be reinstated that it might be something we could do collectively to make this person consider the consequence before playing us with this 'simon says' silliness.

 

we are a good team, perform well and meet all expectations and targets and now we are demoralized and pressured to make this person gleam in front of the company.

 

ideally i would like my job back though im not sure in which order i should approach the situation. ask for my job back and explain why i walked out or make the formal grievance and hope that i would be offered my position back-very unlikely.

 

i think that this person was cooking her goose with me and i have messed up with my emotional response somewhat.

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I would arrange a meeting with HR or a director first and see if they are willing to listen to an explanation of what happened, backed up by proof. However, don't be surprised if they turn around and say they are not interested.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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so would you advise that i meet with HR and inform them of the basis on which i will make a formal grievance?

 

i understand the lack of interest will be due to a general lack of 'meat' and the disruption it would cause the company to arrange investigative interviews though i still feel that is severely inappropriate that a superior talk casually to the subordinate in an inflammatory manner based on a fiction created only to tip the balance in an aggressive way.

 

using the word b*****d? come on! 2014 and this is how managers 'manage' and get away with it?!

 

just to reiterate. the manager told me that someone we both know(?) told her that i had called her a b*****d. hardly professional is it? if what she said was true then why would a normal manager not make a record of this themselves?

 

i just cant believe that in this day and age someone can get away with making up such childish lies and try to use them to wield their wand of authority over me.

 

personally i think that this person should be fired and nothing less.

Edited by KarinaJN
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A formal grievance has the benefit of being a process clearly defined both in policy and in law. Once raised, an employer is duty bound to investigate and it becomes a matter of record with the right to appeal the outcome if required. In your case it would certainly serve to put the manager on notice that you are prepared to use appropriate means to make your feelings known, and it will give you the opportunity to state what you think is wrong - both in your working relationship and in her style of management and why you find it difficult.

 

The fundamental reason for the grievance is that you have been falsely accused of namecalling, and find such a slur deeply upsetting, but this on its own is a little flimsy as the natural reaction would be that the manager was only repeating what she had been told and discussed it with you as she found it personally offensive and professionally disrespectful. That is why you need to express this in terms of what appears to be a wider problem with you as a colleague and that this has manifested in other ways, (examples a, b and c). The manager will never admit that she made it up, but it is also likely that she will be worried that a grievance and questions over her style of people management may affect her future career. I don't think she will be fired. Not for a minute, but it might make her a little more conciliatory in future.

 

The most likely outcome will be some form of mediation and hopefully rather than the actual apology you may get an acknowledgement that she could have handled it better.

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I am not sure that after one week in branch, there would be anything like enough evidence to bring about a dismissal on grounds of bullying or harassment.

 

I'm trying to be pragmatic, not defeatist.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Hi KarinaJN

 

The underlying reason why she has 'picked' on you and others is that she sees you as a threat for all the reasons you have stated. You've worked for the company for 10 years, it's a successful team, your colleagues respect you etc. She's trying to 'break the team up', she's identified you and the 2 others that have already left as standing in the way of her objectives. She's new she want's to make her mark on the store. I'm sort of speculating, but from personal experience.

 

It's a new store for her, new colleagues, etc As a manager what she should have done is absolutely nothing for the first couple of months, just observe her team carrying out the day-to-day activities of the store, spend the day working with each team member, see what improvements can be made, 'coaching' along the way, etc.

 

She's just gone in there, I'm the manager, 'it's my way or the highway'. I suspect she's not a great listener.

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