Used my dad's freedom pass 23 journeys - **got given a conditional discharge**

[Shaz121]

Hi,

 

First of all apologies for the long post but I want to put out all the details so I can get accurate advice.

I'm in a desperate situation and was hoping for some advice and guidance.

 

Back in April I was caught using my Dad's freedom pass at Oxford Circus Station.

 

My dad travels in and out of the country and leaves his pass at my house when he's not around.

 

One day I picked up his pass accidentally and used it to travel to work.

Completely unaware I used it for the next 4-5 days but after that began to wonder how I haven't had to top up my Oyster card.

I took it out of my wallet and realised it was my dad's freedom pass.

 

I was then tempted to use it for 3 weeks and I made 23 journeys in total with it until I got caught.

I feel embarrassed and sorry about my actions but my situation was quite desperate at the time.

I was really struggling with my finances as me and my wife had an unplanned baby at the begining go the year

and she being less than 6 months into her job was not entitled to maternity pay.

 

Out household income dropped by over 60% and I was really struggling to keep up with my mortgage payments and bills, defaulting on most of them.

I was really stressed out over my house being repossessed and all this stress clouded my judgement and I made this stupid mistake.

 

back to me being caught.

 

When the inspector caught me he began asking me for my details and I panicked so I gave him a false address.

As he was going to check up on my address,

I realised my mistake and confessed and gave him all my details.

 

I explained to him my situation and why I did what I did.

He confiscated the pass, told me I would hear from the TFL and let me go.

 

Around July I received a letter asking me to come in for an interview.

I thought if I go up to TFL and admit my guilt and confess that would encourage my chances of an out of court settlement.

 

in hindsight I should have consulted a solicitor (not that I could afford one)

 

I went there admitted everything in the interview and was told that I should write a letter to the prosecutions department to explain my circumstances

and I had a good chance of an out of court settlement as I have been honest and admitted my guilt.

 

I wrote 2 letters to them but heard nothing from them till

 

I got a summons from them on 17 Oct for a court hearing on the 30th Oct (next wed).

I called them up to plead my case but they are having none of it.

I am really nervous now.

 

I have no criminal record and have never done anything illegal in my life.

I'm otherwise an honest hard working IT professional who just made a really stupid mistake for which I'm really sorry.

 

Since the incident I've worked hard, got a promotion and have managed to improve my financial situation for me and my family.

If I get a criminal record, I will lose my job (I have confirmed this with HR)

and would not be be able to find another job in IT.

Obviously that would have a huge impact on mine, my wife and my baby's livelihood.

 

I have a 9 month old son and the court verdict and it's impact on our future is causing me sleepless nights and having an impact on my health.

I have been having severe neuralgic type headaches for which I have visited the doctors and obtained medication.

 

I have pled guilty in the summons forms and sent it back to the magistrates court along with the following documentation:

 

Detailed apology letter explaining my circumstances

Letter from my wife's employer verifying she wasn't entitled to maternity pay

Letter I sent TFL requesting an out of court settlement

3 character references

Letter from HR saying that if I get a criminal record, they would seriously consider terminating my employment

Doctors note confirming my neuralgic headaches

Doctors prescription

 

I will be going personally to the court to plead guilty without a solicitor.

 

Can someone please advise me what else I can do and the possible verdicts?

Am I looking at a prison term, criminal record and fine?

 

Thanks very much in advance for your response.

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

I've moved this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

[firstclassx]

So you selected "Plead guilty - attend hearing"?

 

What offence(s) were mentioned? You committed at least 2:

 

5(3a) Regulation of Railways Act 1889 - Travel on a railway with intent to avoid fare due

5(3c) Regulation of Railways Act 1889 - False details provided to railway officer

 

If you admitted to 23 journeys without paying,

then I suspect the court will take a very dim view of that,

even with your "medical" mitigation,

(which I don't really consider that strong, you are trying to blame your 23 occasions of fraud on lack of sleep and headaches).

 

Whilst I don't wish to offend you, I don't think a court will accept that your medical circumstances would cause you to commit theft and fraud.

 

you will get a criminal record, no matter what happens, you can't avoid this.

The court HAS to convict you, you pleaded guilty, and TfL have good evidence against you.

 

Fine around £300-£500, victim surcharge of £30-£50, costs of around £100, plus compensation (the cost of the fares), so total will be about £500-£700.

 

No point getting a solicitor, you've (correctly) pleaded guilty.

 

The court, at their discretion, may decide that you can pay the fine and costs over a period of months, to ease any financial pressure.

 

As for losing your job, I doubt this will happen,

but in case it does, you might want to come back on the forum in the "employment" section,

and seek assistance from forum members more knowledgeable in that.

Edited October 26, 2013 by firstclassx

[Shaz121]

Yes I've pleaded guilty and am attending the hearing.

 

The only offence I'm charged with as per my summons is 5(3a) Regulation of Railways Act 1889

- Travel on a railway with intent to avoid fare due,

though the fact that I gave a false address initially is recorded in the Revenue Control Inspector witness statement.

 

I think you mis-understood

I didn't put down my medical condition as the reason for committing the offence.

I said the stress these summons and the fear of my future behind destroyed due to a criminal record is what is caused my medical condition.

My financial situation is the mitigating circumstance.

 

what kind of criminal record will I get?

Is it something that shows up in all CRB checks or only enhanced ones?

 

Also how long will it this records stick with me?

Is there any possibility of a prison sentence?

Do you think I can still try and convince TFL to settle out of court?

Offer them more than the fine amount?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Shaz121]

Yes I've pleaded guilty and am attending the hearing.

 

The only offence I'm charged with as per my summons is 5(3a) Regulation of Railways Act 1889 - Travel on a railway with intent to avoid fare due, though the fact that I gave a false address initially is recorded in the Revenue Control Inspector witness statement.

 

Also I think you mis-understood I didn't put down my medical condition as the reason for committing the offence. I said the stress these summons and the fear of my future behind destroyed due to a criminal record is what is caused my medical condition. My financial situation is the mitigating circumstance.

 

Also what kind of criminal record will I get? Is it something that shows up in all CRB checks or only enhanced ones? Also how long will it this records stick with me? Is there any possibility of a prison sentence? Do you think I can still try and convince TFL to settle out of court? Offer them more than the fine amount?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

----------------------------------------

 

Also the witness statements were served under the provisions of the criminal justice act 1967. It doesn't say whether I'm being charged under that act though. Could you clarify?

 

Thanks

[firstclassx]

The criminal record WILL show up on all disclosures.

This will need to be declared for 5 years from the date of conviction,

but potentially for the rest of your life if you ever apply to work in certain jobs, (ie. teaching/NHS/police/care home/finance etc).

 

Carefully approaching this matter with your employer, and explaining your "mitigating" circumstances may enable you to keep your job.

Best to be open and frank with them though - same when addressing the court.

 

You are only charged with Section 5(3a) Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

 

Criminal Justice Act 1967 provisions relate to various legal processes,

i.e. how the court and justice system should work.

You have not been summonsed for any offence(s) under this Act.

 

My opinion is that there is no real need for you to attend court,

I don't think you'll achieve anything by going.

 

You have supplied them with lots of documents and evidence you believe provides "mitigating" circumstances

- so unless you have other information they don't currently have,

there's not much point going.

 

You will end up getting distressed, upset and when in such a state, could potentially say things which you don't realise can go against you.

 

A conviction and fine is inevitable, as you've already plead guilty.

 

By turning up, the best case is you get the fine reduced by £50 or so,

which might not be so great by the time you've taken a day off and the cost of travel to the court.

 

I can't see TfL accepting a settlement based on what you've written.

[Shaz121]

Ok looks more and more like a criminal record is a certainty.

 

I also read in the tfl guidelines that there could a possible 3 month custody.

 

Does that apply in my case?

 

Also now that I've submitted in my form that I am guilty and will appear in court ,

 

I don't think I can NOT attend the hearing or can I?

[dx100uk]

a prison sentence in this instance is EXTREMELY rare.

 

'1st' conviction, mitigating circs, bread winner, family, babies etc etc.

 

dx

[Shaz121]

Ok.. Also does a criminal record of this type prevent you from travelling abroad i.e. US, Canada, Aus etc.?

[BazzaS]

Ok.. Also does a criminal record of this type prevent you from travelling abroad i.e. US, Canada, Aus etc.?

 

I agree with the previous posters re: likely level of fine / costs, and that prison is almost unheard of for a first conviction for this, being reserved for repeat offenders.

 

The conviction is unlikely to prevent you travelling, but may require you to travel with a visa obtained in advance of travel, with the conviction declared on the visa application.

The embassy for each country of destination can advise : for example, any conviction prevents a UK citizen from using the Visa Waiver Programme to travel visa-free to the USA, requiring them to obtain a visa.

 

Why take the chance of travelling long distance to risk then being rejected at the border when obtaining a visa in advance will offer you reassurance?

[Shaz121]

Agreed..so I need a visa to the US for life or until the conviction is spent?

[king12345]

Ok.. Also does a criminal record of this type prevent you from travelling abroad i.e. US, Canada, Aus etc.?

Not necessarily, but you can only find out by applying for a visa.
Usually they don't prevent you from having a visa if you have been convicted of a summary offence like in this case.
Something strange though, I know some IT consultants working for big firms even if they have a criminal record.Unless you deal with matters of security and confidential/restricted matters, it shouldn't be a problem.
Said that, different companies apply different policies and if they deem your work to be of some degree of sensibility, they would object to having someone convicted of similar offence to fraud/theft in their books.
I know you're not gonna be convicted under the fraud act or the theft act, but your company might look the RRA offence as it was fraud or theft.
Good luck

[BazzaS]

Agreed..so I need a visa to the US for life or until the conviction is spent?

 

Check with the US embassy : the rehabilitation of offenders legislation doesn't necessarily apply to other countries immigration policies.

A conviction for a minor offence may not pose a problem for getting a visa. Not declaring an offence (even minor!) that they might not consider spent might, though.

[BazzaS]

 

Do you think I can still try and convince TFL to settle out of court? Offer them more than the fine amount.

 

You can write (it'll cost you a stamp and some time, only), but if things have reached this far I doubt you'll succeed.

 

The fine doesn't go to TFL : they get only their costs and any fare evaded. Money isn't their motivator, so while any request you make should offer to pay the fare and their admin costs, I'd advise that any offer that sounds like "I'll pay extra to avoid prosecution" might fail as it allows suggestion of "one law for the poor, one for the rich".

Additionally, as for why it's not likely to succeed is that TfL take a strong line on Freedom Pass abuse. You'd struggle to get them to settle if you'd been stopped at the "I didn't realise" stage, let alone the "I know I'm getting 'free' travel" stage.

[firstclassx]

a prison sentence in this instance is EXTREMELY rare.

 

'1st' conviction, mitigating circs, bread winner, family, babies etc etc.

 

dx

 

For offences under Section 5- Regulation of Railways Act 1889, an offender must have been convicted on at least two other previous occasions before imprisonment (of up to 3 months) becomes an option.

 

That said, other legislation, such as the Fraud Act 2006 would enable imprisonment (which allows for up to 10 years, imprisonment on indictment, 12 months on a summary offence), can be used in railway proceedings, but only if the case is suitably serious.

 

So whilst the OP has admitted to 23 counts of intentionally avoiding a fare, he will only get convicted "once", for the time he was caught.

 

I must say that whilst still quite rare to have an offender imprisoned, certainly up my way, it is gradually increasing as revenue protection policies continue to identify persistent offenders. Only last week an offender who had 7 previous Section 5 RoRA convictions was sentenced to 10 weeks detention. I suspect as time goes on, so long as TOCs continue to push offenders into court, this trend will continue. I find such statistics are useful in revenue protection posters and warning letters.

[Shaz121]

so I had my hearing at Magistrates Court today and here was the outcome.

 

The judge decided not to punish me and gave me a conditional discharge with orders to pay the unpaid fare, prosecution costs, victim surcharge amounting to around £450

 

While Im relieved at the outcome, I am a little confused as to what it means.

 

I was under the impression that a conditional discharge is not a conviction and hence will not appear as a criminal record. I wanted to clarify that with the judge who said that it will appear as a record but it will be spent within 3 months after which I do not have to declare it. He sounded a bit unsure as to how long it would be spent in and asked me to check it out.

 

So do I have a criminal record or do I not? If I do, will it appear in CRB checks after it is spent (i.e. 3 months). Should I declare it on job applications, travel visas etc. after it is spent?

 

Thanks in advance....

 

Shouvik

[honeybee13]

Hello again. That must be a big relief for you and thank you for coming back to tell us. All too often, we don't hear how people got on.

 

I expect the forum guys will be along later with advice for you.

 

HB

Edited October 30, 2013 by honeybee13

[Old-CodJA]

so I had my hearing at Magistrates Court today and here was the outcome.

 

The judge decided not to punish me and gave me a conditional discharge with orders to pay the unpaid fare, prosecution costs, victim surcharge amounting to around £450

 

While Im relieved at the outcome, I am a little confused as to what it means.

 

I was under the impression that a conditional discharge is not a conviction and hence will not appear as a criminal record. I wanted to clarify that with the judge who said that it will appear as a record but it will be spent within 3 months after which I do not have to declare it. He sounded a bit unsure as to how long it would be spent in and asked me to check it out.

 

So do I have a criminal record or do I not? If I do, will it appear in CRB checks after it is spent (i.e. 3 months). Should I declare it on job applications, travel visas etc. after it is spent?

 

Thanks in advance....

 

Shouvik

 

I am also confused

 

A victim surcharge is only applied in cases where someone is convicted and fined.

 

I think that you may have some misunderstanding here. Within a few days you will receive a notice from the Court and that will tell you exactly what has gone on the register.

[Shaz121]

There was definitely a £15 surcharge (don't know if it was victims or not) included in the costs I was asked to pay. But I was definitely told conditional discharge with no fine. I guess I'll have to wait for the judgement to come through in the post.

[firstclassx]

A £15 victim surcharge is made when someone receives a conditional discharge. What are the conditions of your discharge? Keep your nose clean for 6 months?

 

For a fine, it is 10% of the fine, custody between £80 and £120, suspended sentence £80-£100.

 

To total £450, you've been hit hard with costs, i.e. £435 just in costs, £15 surcharge... that seems high, best to report back here when you get a letter.

[BazzaS]

I was under the impression that a conditional discharge is not a conviction and hence will not appear as a criminal record. I wanted to clarify that with the judge who said that it will appear as a record but it will be spent within 3 months after which I do not have to declare it. He sounded a bit unsure as to how long it would be spent in and asked me to check it out.

 

So do I have a criminal record or do I not? If I do, will it appear in CRB checks after it is spent (i.e. 3 months). Should I declare it on job applications, travel visas etc. after it is spent?

 

 

http://www.nacro.org.uk/data/files/nacro-2007021302-65.pdf

 

"Rehab period" for an absolute discharge is 6 months, so I can't see how it is only 3 months for a conditional discharge.

If fined, the "rehab period" is 5 years.

 

Edited to add : from http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/offenders/rehabilitation/rehabilitation-offenders.pdf

If a conditional discharge without a fine, rehab period is 12 months or the duration of the order (if the length of the conditional discharge order exceeds 12 months).

 

It will always appear in an enhanced CRB (now an enhanced DBS), since these are used for jobs exempt from the provision of the Rehab of Offenders legislation (e.g. some jobs in healthcare and the administration of justice), but need not be declared once the "rehab period" has expired for jobs covered under the Rehab of Offenders legislation.

 

Travel visa's : check with the embassy for that country, as they may not apply the Rehab of Offenders legislation, being in a different jurisdiction.

Edited October 31, 2013 by BazzaS

[Old-CodJA]

A £15 victim surcharge is made when someone receives a conditional discharge.

 

Yes, sorry firstclassx, mental aberration. I forgot that it applies at the lower rate to CD.

 

In reading the OPs assertion that they were 'not punished' I was thinking in terms of acquittal and confused myself!!

 

I need a lie down

Edited October 30, 2013 by Old-CodJA

[Shaz121]

Well there was definitely no fine as he did not even ask me for my means form. I had brought it to court with me. Surely he would have needed to see my means form to see how much fine I could afford to pay.

 

This is all so unclear:(

[BazzaS]

Well there was definitely no fine as he did not even ask me for my means form. I had brought it to court with me. Surely he would have needed to see my means form to see how much fine I could afford to pay.

 

This is all so unclear:(

 

What is unclear? If you weren't fined then you weren't fined, and the rehab period is that for your conditional discharge.

 

How long was the period of your conditional discharge?

If it was 12 months or less the rehab period for you is 12 months.

If it was for more than 12 months the rehab period is the length of the order made for your conditional discharge.

 

Have you checked out the NACRO website, in particular the link I gave?. It is very "plain English" and not at all confusing.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I assume you have some paperwork from the court? Is it possible for you to type up what it says, minus any personal details please?

 

HB