Caught using mother’s 60+ Oyster card - 50+ uses - SJPN Court

[TiredDodo]

Hi!

I hope this reaches the right people.

I am a uni student and I got caught using my mother’s 60+ Oyster card by TFL when I attempted to travel from campus to home.

On 02/11/23 I was caught avoiding fares using my mother's 60+ oyster card.

The TFL officer took my details and I have received a few letters since.

In my response letter to TFL I stated that I was guilty of using the 60+ card to save money as we are not well off and money is tight. 
I received a letter stating I must attend a court hearing in April.
I did not receive a letter giving me the option to pay a fine. 

I emailed TFL about settling this matter out of court but they refused. 

I would like some advise on what to send to TFL and what to say in court as I am not confident in my abilities to successfully represent myself at the moment.

I want to settle this matter out of court if possible as a criminal conviction will impact my future once I graduate.

This case has been interrupting my focus and giving me restless nights because I am stressed over this, thus affecting my performance at university. 

I would like to know:
Which evidence to send in (SFE, my mother's bills as she pays for everything regarding living at this property)?
Some trips they are suspecting me of making with the 60+ oyster were made by my mother, how do I prove this (other than the hospital appointment letters from the hospital)?
Should my mother accompany me to court to testify for her travels?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG. 

So we can advise you please could you post up a mass pdf with the correspondence you've had from TfL and what you've sent them? Obscure your name and address and their reference number. 

Our upload guide will help if you need it.

HB

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

moved to Public Transport Forum.

For how long have you been using the card?

how many uses/journey's are on their TIC list for you to sign off on?

dx

[Grotesque]

I wish you'd found us sooner.

This all happened four months ago; if you'd come to us then, it could have been resolved by now (although I wouldn't like to say which way).

You've received 'a few' letters since; it's usually over the course of those letters that, on our advice, you persuade TfL not to take forward their prosecution.

The problem here is that, with the amount of time that's passed, you can't tell them anything radically different to what you've already said. Bearing in mind that you've been placed under PACE caution at least twice by now, and according to your original post, you told them you did it to save money. I'm afraid mens rea is all they need to win a case, and that's it right there. 

Feel free to post up the info the others have asked for. Two other things, perhaps more importantly considering the stage of the game we're at now:

• Have you got a court date yet?
• Have they indicated what figure they're seeking yet? 

Re. your final questions, I think I'd probably want to keep my 60+ mother out of court, to be honest, but of course, that's between you. Unless the vast majority of journeys were made by her—were they?—it won't make much difference.

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, TiredDodo said:

I received a letter stating I must attend a court hearing in April.

 

14 minutes ago, Grotesque said:

Unless the vast majority of journeys were made by her—were they?—it won't make much difference.

agree

dx

 

[honeybee13]

@TiredDodo , please post up the information we asked for asap. I'm an optimist at heart and think it's worth another try with TfL before the court date but that depends on what's gone before.

HB

[Grotesque]

Thanks dx, must've missed that. Well, that might give us a few weeks, then, at least.

but @TiredDodo (cool username!), please do as HB suggests—time is of the essence!

[TiredDodo]

I am so grateful for all your responses!

I didn’t realise I had to do anything, then I got the letter from TFL about taking me to court and it freaked me out 

I tried to find places I could go for advice.

Now I’m with you lovely people if only I had found it sooner

HB thank you for the upload guide!

I will attach the correspondence thus far. This includes the 3 letters I received from TFL as well as an email I sent them about going to court. 

The files are large so I will upload them in separate posts. This one is the first letter I received from TFL as well as the response after I send them my letter.

I used it quite a lot during that period of time because I was short on money.

Looking forward to reading your responses!

 

Edited March 21 by dx100uk
PDF removed Not properly redacted

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the documents.

Could you also show us an anonymised copy of what you sent to them please?

Their wording is deliberately vague about offence/s and I expect they will be checking the card's history. Could you tell us how many times you used it please?

HB

[TiredDodo]

Here are emails I exchanged with TFL.

This is the important letter about court. 

Of these trips about 10 of them were made by my mother. 

Also I have a 16-25 Railcard linked to my Oyster card  I get discounted travel, this would significantly cut the amount that I am due. 

Please let me know if there is anything else you need appreciating the support.

 

 

 

docs1 .pdf

[honeybee13]

I've hidden your post with the court document because you've left your full name showing at the top of page 3. Please cover that up and repost.

So TfL are quoting a total of about 65 journeys and you think about 55 of them were you?

Also, when is the court date and when do you need to reply by? EDIT: I see the court date is 22nd April.

HB

[dx100uk]

pdf's merged and sorted.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Sorry DX,

We had the same idea.

If you want to put yours up again... OK.

But I noticed the redaction wasn't done properly originally. (OP please note!)

[TiredDodo]

Hi sorry for the confusion with the files, should've just put them all together in the first place.

I have re uploaded the files. Thank you for pointing out that I missed out one part with my name. The system seemed to have moved my censors. Is there a way I can delete the other file in my last post?

Hopefully it's clear enough now. 

What should I be doing now regarding this case? Is there anything I can do to change my fate?

Please let me know. Thanks!

 

Edited March 21 by dx100uk
pdf has pers info still

[dx100uk]

pdf still has details showing.

no matter we've done the last one above a few posts

the 10 or so not your journey's.... you dont sign against but they wont have any affect upon the charge.

just p'haps a smaller sum to pay.

you will do well to get away with an OOC settlement here .

6 hours ago, TiredDodo said:

Also I have a 16-25 Railcard linked to my Oyster card  I get discounted travel, this would significantly cut the amount that I am due. 

nope..wont make any odds, the journey's they are charging you with under the TIC scheme are on your mothers card .

worthy of  read

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/457981-60-oyster-card-months-of-misuse-settled-by-formal-warning-and-pay-a-fine/

thread title updated

[TiredDodo]

Thanks dx.

Are you able to answer any of my questions in my initial post now that you're up to speed?

I want to avoid getting a criminal record and settle this matter out of court.

Edited March 21 by TiredDodo

[dx100uk]

you can only keep begging to TfL via the email address on the 1st letter.

those journeys by your mum are somewhat immaterial, so you dont need her there nor evidence of such.

theres also no worth in proving poverty by inc bills etc.

have you read that thread i pointed too...

and 

Caught using someone else freedom pass, more than one use...facing prosecution- please help **SETTLED OOC** - Page 2 - Public transport (Trains, tubes and buses) - Consumer Action Group

dx

 

[honeybee13]

9 hours ago, TiredDodo said:

Hi sorry for the confusion with the files, should've just put them all together in the first place.

I have re uploaded the files. Thank you for pointing out that I missed out one part with my name. The system seemed to have moved my censors. Is there a way I can delete the other file in my last post?

Hopefully it's clear enough now. 

What should I be doing now regarding this case? Is there anything I can do to change my fate?

Please let me know. Thanks!

 

You can keep writing to TfL about settling OOC, but please run the letters past us first. If you convince them, they can withdraw the court case.

You can also speak to the prosecutor on the day and ask about a settlement. This would need to be paid in one go, normally all the missed fares plus an extra amount for their admin costs. I don't know if they take cards nowadays or if it's still cash only. You need to work out all the fares you evaded and the cost of that and start saving up. EDIT: The court form says £326.60 in fares although that might reduce a bit, plus £375 for their investigation costs.

Have you replied to the court form? If the case is 22nd April there must be a deadline soon.

HB

[TiredDodo]

Hi!

Over the weekend I managed to make a draft of the letter for TFL, pleading them not to take me to court.

Could you please let me know what I should add or remove from this letter before I send it to TFL?

Much appreciated!!

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to you today regarding the aforementioned case, and I respectfully request your attention to the following circumstances:

Firstly, I wish to underscore the potential ramifications a criminal charge could have on my future career prospects post-graduation. The implications of such an outcome are profound and deeply concerning to me

. The thought that my actions could jeopardise my future career prospects fills me with profound regret and sorrow.

In light of this, I implore you to consider the extenuating circumstances surrounding my situation and explore the possibility of settling this matter out of court.

The factors contributing to my actions are multifaceted. My family has been grappling with significant financial strain, exacerbated by the escalating cost of living. As a result of financial constraints, there are three of us living in a single-bedroom residence.

During the time I used my mother’s 60+ Oyster card, we received the distressing news of my mother's cancer diagnosis. Witnessing her battle with this illness has taken an emotional toll on me, leaving me in a constant state of worry and distress.

In an attempt to alleviate some of the financial burden on her and allow her to focus on her recovery, I made the regrettable decision to utilise her oyster card.

Though my intentions were born out of love and a desire to shield her from further worry, I have come to realise the gravity of my actions.

While I acknowledge that my actions were unjustifiable, I want to express my sincere remorse and assure you that I have learned a profound lesson from this experience.

The stress and anxiety resulting from this ordeal have significantly impacted my ability to concentrate on my university studies, leading to sleepless nights and a pervasive sense of unease.

I can assure you that I have been deeply affected by the repercussions of my actions and am committed to never repeating such behaviour. The magnitude of this offence is something that will stay with me for the rest of my life.

Considering these circumstances, I respectfully ask for your deliberation in resolving this matter extrajudicially. I plead with you to find it in your heart to show compassion and understanding.

 

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I eagerly await your response.

[dx100uk]

its never a good idea to go straight in with how this will impact you etc.

move the green bit to the very top, ditch the red.

then lets see how that reads.

i would also be including 'something' that proves to them you now have attained and have been using, you own card etc.

p'haps after the green bit before the rest.

dx

 

[honeybee13]

Have you checked how much space your letter takes up on it current form? We usually suggest keeping to one page of A4.

HB

[dx100uk]

this 'letter' should be sent to TfL using the email address on their 1st letter.

dx

 

[TiredDodo]

Hi thanks for the feedback, I have made some adjustments.

The letter is roughly the size of an A4.

Please let me know whether this is okay to send off to the initial email address. 

Thanks so much!

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to you today regarding the aforementioned case, and I respectfully request your attention to the following circumstances:

Firstly, I acknowledge that my actions were unjustifiable, I want to express my sincere remorse and assure you that I have learned a profound lesson from this experience. The stress and anxiety resulting from this ordeal have significantly impacted my ability to concentrate on my university studies, leading to sleepless nights and a pervasive sense of unease.

I can assure you that I have been deeply affected by the repercussions of my actions and am committed to never repeating such behaviour. The magnitude of this offence is something that will stay with me for the rest of my life.

Considering these circumstances, I respectfully ask for your deliberation in resolving this matter extrajudicially. I plead with you to find it in your heart to show compassion and understanding.

Since the incident, I have been diligently utilising my personal Oyster card, with card number xxxx, and have adopted a more conscientious and ethical perspective.

Additionally, I wish to underscore the potential ramifications a criminal charge could have on my future career prospects post-graduation. The implications of such an outcome are profound and deeply concerning to me. The thought that my actions could jeopardise my future career prospects fills me with profound regret and sorrow.

In light of this, I implore you to consider the extenuating circumstances surrounding my situation and explore the possibility of settling this matter out of court.

The factors contributing to my actions are multifaceted. My family has been grappling with significant financial strain, exacerbated by the escalating cost of living. As a result of financial constraints, there are three of us living in a single-bedroom residence.

During the time I used my mother’s 60+ Oyster card, we received the distressing news of my mother's cancer diagnosis. Witnessing her battle with this illness has taken an emotional toll on me, leaving me in a constant state of worry and distress. In an attempt to alleviate some of the financial burden on her and allow her to focus on her recovery, I made the regrettable decision to utilise her oyster card. Though my intentions were born out of love and a desire to shield her from further worry, I have come to realise the gravity of my actions.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I eagerly await your response.

Yours sincerely,

[Kyosanto]

not a legal opinion, but there are a couple of bits that sound overly verbose, making your letter come accross as contrived. 
Sounds more like someone trying very hard to use complicated words, rather than the real you. Am I wrong?

Apologizing deeply and repeatedly is fine (and I'm sure some ppl working at TFL get a kick from it), but I think it can be done in simpler words to come across as more genuine. 2 examples:

 

Quote

Since the incident, I have been diligently utilising my personal Oyster card, with card number xxxx, and have adopted a more conscientious and ethical perspective.

 

A pespective on what?!? On the use of Oyster cards? Does this need to be viewed via "more or less ethical" lens?  Best to delete bit in red entirely.

 

Quote

Though my intentions were born out of love and a desire to shield her from further worry, I have come to realise the gravity of my actions.

 

Bringing love into the tribunal may sound a bit cringy. How about something like this?  "My intentions were to shield her from further financial worries, but I have now come to realize how wrong that was"

 

 

Edited March 26 by Kyosanto

[Nicky Boy]

14 hours ago, TiredDodo said:

During the time I used my mother’s 60+ Oyster card, we received the distressing news of my mother's cancer diagnosis. Witnessing her battle with this illness has taken an emotional toll on me, leaving me in a constant state of worry and distress. In an attempt to alleviate some of the financial burden on her and allow her to focus on her recovery, I made the regrettable decision to utilise her oyster card. Though my intentions were born out of love and a desire to shield her from further worry, I have come to realise the gravity of my actions.

This reads like you were already using the card when Mum's cancer was discovered.

Maybe rewrite it, so the cancer diagnosis was more of a stress trigger prior to using the card?