Should the bedroom tax be scrapped? please vote

[antone]

But would not this help the families that need a larger house?

 

I don't think that it is right that couples with children that have flown the nest are allowed to remain in their 3/4 bed council/HA property. They should move out to a 1 bed private let (which will of course cost more in benefit) but the bigger picture is that it will release a whole swathe of 'family' homes that are desperately needed. It can't be right that families with 3/4/5 children are having to live in a 2 bed property simply because the 'old couple up the road' living in a 3 bed semi are blocking them.

 

Honestly I don't think that there is a way out of this. The government will have to standardise both types of letting and only pay for the bedrooms that the law deems that are needed.

 

The problem is that housing is a complex area. So yes, it is a good idea in principle (as I've acknowledged already in this thread) to rearrange the way social sector housing is used. I agree that a couple whose kids left the nest 10 years ago should not really be living in a 4 bed house while a family of five lives in a B&B or a slum.

 

That's not really the point, though, because this legislation does nothing to solve the problem. All it does is yank money from poor people who can't afford to move, without offering them any way out of the predicament.

 

And even if you suggested that they move to the private sector, well, my wife and I just moved from one private sector property to another 30 miles away. We are not currently claiming any benefits. Conservatively, I would say that the moved required about £1300 in upfront cash. Sick and disabled people, the unemployed, and so on, simply have no way to save that sort of money.

 

Perhaps we should offer to cover first month's rent, security deposit and reasonable moving costs? If we did that, we'd take a tiny and tentative step towards something that might make this work.

[RaeUK]

... I agree that a couple whose kids left the nest 10 years ago should not really be living in a 4 bed house ...

Slightly disagree. The couple should be living there as they have every legal right to do so under the terms of their tenancy contract. People shouldn't be penalised because the contract they entered into years earlier is now deemed unfashionable. Why should they be forced to move from the home they have lived in for, quite often, decades? One of the main points of social housing was to offer security in renting.

[stu007]

Slightly disagree. The couple should be living there as they have every legal right to do so under the terms of their tenancy contract. People shouldn't be penalised because the contract they entered into years earlier is now deemed unfashionable. Why should they be forced to move from the home they have lived in for, quite often, decades? One of the main points of social housing was to offer security in renting.

 

Their lies one of the issues for the Social Housing Sector as a lot of Council/HA for years have had a Clause in their Tenancy Agreements about Under Occupation and they could legally have used this clause if under occupation did occur.

 

Most of the Council/HA were reluctant to use this clause for years due to the legal impact but now well you can guess whats happening now this clause.

 

My own HA has had this clause for over 10 years in the Tenancy Agreements but even now is reluctant to use this even with the bedroom tax and would rather explain the pros and cons and offer as much advice as possible to those tenants affected to make their own informed decision.

[antone]

Slightly disagree. The couple should be living there as they have every legal right to do so under the terms of their tenancy contract. People shouldn't be penalised because the contract they entered into years earlier is now deemed unfashionable. Why should they be forced to move from the home they have lived in for, quite often, decades? One of the main points of social housing was to offer security in renting.

 

This is why I said it was complex, because you do make a valid point. Given that SS housing is limited, it seems instinctively reasonable that it should be allocated to those who can make the best use of it. But as you correctly point out, people did sign these deals on the basis that they could be secure where they were, and to retroactively penalise them for this seems unfair - certainly when no alternative is offered.

 

Of course, those of us in the private sector have to deal with this, and much as we'd like SS housing, it simply isn't available to us. So I don't totally disagree with Andy...oops, sorry, bedofweeds, either.

 

It seems obvious to me that selling off a huge chunk of our SS housing stock for way less than market value is the ultimate cause of this whole problem, but I don't expect Mr Cameron to acknowledge that Goddess Thatcher ever made a mistake. So we're...stuck. We don't have enough houses for those who need them, and we have no way to remedy the situation that won't cause suffering and misery. Thanks, Mrs T.

 

But whatever we might propose, the Bedroom Tax is simply stamping on the poor with steel-toed boots. It does nothing to solve the problem.

[stu007]

What we have also not mentioned yet is the mass increase in Food banks throughout the UK and that they have seen a mass increase in those needing the service but all these Food banks are starting to struggle with the influx and are asking for help in donations as they cant cope.

[RaeUK]

Can't disagree there, antone.

stu, fairy nuff if that's what their contract says. I'm 99% certain mine doesn't.

[osdset]

Have been contributing my tuppence-worth to a heated 'debate' over on the benefit bashing forum on this very subject, the consensus of opinion among the swivel eyed Tory mob is that 1 bed properties are plentiful and it's just greedy stubborn skivers that won't move who are causing the problem.

 

A widely held view among the Tory rank and file it seems.

[estellyn]

Have been contributing my tuppence-worth to a heated 'debate' over on the benefit bashing forum on this very subject, the consensus of opinion among the swivel eyed Tory mob is that 1 bed properties are plentiful and it's just greedy stubborn skivers that won't move who are causing the problem.

 

A widely held view among the Tory rank and file it seems.

 

does being a Tory somehow remove their ability to do simple sums. I haven't heard of any areas where there are enough 1 bed properties for the need caused by the bedroom tax.

[antone]

What we have also not mentioned yet is the mass increase in Food banks throughout the UK and that they have seen a mass increase in those needing the service but all these Food banks are starting to struggle with the influx and are asking for help in donations as they cant cope.

 

Worth considering, although this isn't only being caused by the Bedroom Tax. Many aspects of welfare reform are driving people to extreme poverty.

[antone]

does being a Tory somehow remove their ability to do simple sums. I haven't heard of any areas where there are enough 1 bed properties for the need caused by the bedroom tax.

 

But didn't you hear? Reality has a left-wing bias.

[bedofweeds]

But where are these smaller houses? That's the problem. More people want them than there are smaller houses.

 

If you give me your postcode I am sure that I can find you many 1 bed properties to rent within say a few miles of where you are now - or is it that you are choosing not to want to rent privately and move?

[sadone]

And how many of those would take anyone claiming any kind of benefits? Not many I'd wager.

 

I love how some people will go to any lengths to excuse this foul and corrupt governments war on the poor and sick.

[osdset]

I thought the governments bedroom tax had a dual purpose, to free up under occupied property and reduce housing benefit costs. Renting privately is always more expensive than social housing, pushing people into the private rental sector would see the benefits bill rise dramatically.

[osdset]

I love how some people will go to any lengths to excuse this foul and corrupt governments war on the poor and sick.

 

Yeah, all the forums have a handful of government apologists, bigots, and swivel eyed cranks.

[Nystagmite]

http://www.itv.com/news/london/story/2013-09-23/residents-bedroom-tax-victory/

[MaxxPower]

Scrapped? No. Absolutely not.

Reworked? Absolutely.

 

A simple change really should be that it is only charged to those who refuse to move to smaller properties when a smaller property is available and offered to them.

[sadone]

http://www.itv.com/news/london/story/2013-09-23/residents-bedroom-tax-victory/

 

 

Good for him. The more cases we see fighting this ridiculous idea the better.

[firstship]

Surely the simple answer to this,all Social Housing tenants sign a contract that as the house/flat becomes under occupied,then the local council/housing association move their tenant to a smaller property.

 

FS

[estellyn]

:-)

 

But didn't you hear? Reality has a left-wing bias.

[Nystagmite]

Surely the simple answer to this,all Social Housing tenants sign a contract that as the house/flat becomes under occupied,then the local council/housing association move their tenant to a smaller property.

 

FS

 

Who would pay for them to move? As Atone mentioned earlier, many are on benefits and don't have the money to pay to move. (including deposit, etc) I do think there does need to be an incentive to move.

[RaeUK]

Yeah, all the forums have a handful of government apologists, bigots, and swivel eyed cranks.

You missed out the t-word ...

[wobbly]

Yes and they are the ones who sqeal most when it happens to them

[bcham]

Yes and they are the ones who sqeal most when it happens to them

thats true what goes round comes round,

[lenny100]

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

 

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

 

 

all so true now as then

[osdset]

You missed out the t-word ...

 

Yeah, I'm not over keen on using Troll, it's a bit too shorthand for my liking.