over payment of benefit worry.

[tracieann]

hi new here read lots and lots of posts lately managed to get on the forum so i can ask for opinions and advice so here goes.

 

I am mum of an autistic lad aged 17 he has recieved DLA mid rate and low rate MOB for a good few years .

 

When i worked smashing mum in law used to watch my son however in later years she became older and more tired

 

on the advice of my sons consultant I claimed carers allowance only working enough hours to be entitled .

 

I have always been fairly on the ball with checking earnings .etc

 

BUT last year my dear mum in law was diagnosed with cancer of the lung

we were all devastated and her chemo/ radiotherapy was awful and

checking things was not at the front of my mind to be honest also i did not receive the usual letter.

 

In Feb this year we were told cancer now in her brain and she was terminal

 

this pushed me who has suffered anx and depression for almost ten years in a really bad way as well as all my family.

 

Then i decided to volunteer for some work at hospice that helped her and

 

when i went to benefits advice they checked things out and i gave them an old wage slip and they checked

 

OMG it turned out that id been overpaid my wages by £2.39 per week for over a year.

 

I was absolutely devastated scared out of my wits and

 

I phoned them the minute I got home

 

the bloke I spoke to was ok and I said that i was now scared it hadnt been checked properly

so I sent 5 years p60s and they checked them all i just owed 2012 to 2013 which was £3458

 

i asked if i would be prosecuted they said they didnt think so but im still scared I let them know on 14th may

 

received overpayment letter 7th june and

 

arranged with debt management to pay £100 pm back

 

they said it is not marked for prosecution but

 

i am sick with worry

 

we lost my mum in law on 1st june and

 

i have lost so much weight

 

im terrified they will take my son away or ill go to prison.

 

part of the reason for overpayment was my wages went direct into husbands bank to pay direct debits

and also my tax had been reduced taking me over threshold for earnins

 

I never worked any over my set hours at any time

 

Please can some one let me know their experiences or what they think

 

ive read about interview under caution and

 

im scared although ive phoned dwp a good few times theyve said they dont think its fraud

 

im scared to believe them HELP :|

Edited July 2, 2013 by tracieann
add some onFormatting

[renegadeimp]

they will take my son away or ill go to prison

 

Where on earth did you get that idea from? They wont do either of those things.

[antone]

Fraud requires intent - you can't accidentally commit that crime. So you may have been overpaid benefit and have to pay it back, but that doesn't mean you've committed fraud, or will go to prison or lose your child.

 

So you have an overpayment of about £3500, and it's being dealt with by debt management. That's not great, obviously, but it strongly suggests that the DWP does not plan to prosecute. Have you been asked to attend an IUC?

[citizenkain]

I doubt they will prosecute you for this amount under the circumstances,you certainly wont go to prison and your son wont be taken away,the dwp principally looks for the overpayment back which you are doing in a finance plan,try not to worry too much,they could fine you a third of the overpayment if the decision maker thinks it is fraud.

[tracieann]

no i havent had an iuc just made play to repay £100 pm do you normally get op letter before iuc i have told them everything that happened but feel scared to death have a job i love too and dont want to lose thanks for your support

[tracieann]

sorry that was meant to read made plan tp payback to debt management , also if no plan to prosecute could i get it in writing that no further action it would calm me a lot .they also said on letter they had decided not to apply civil penalty so can this indicate they will prosecute thank you so much for your help folks

[honeybee13]

Hello tracieann.

 

Have you tried asking them? It's quite hard for us to guess what they're thinking, but if you ask them politely [you sound polite to me ] maybe they'll tell you.

 

You're on the lower scale of overpayments and I'd say prison certainly isn't an option. That's reserved for serial offenders or people who claim tens of thousands.

 

I think it's worth a phone call.

 

My best, HB

[tracieann]

hi honey bee thanks for your post i phoned debt management and the lady was nice she said its been put as a mistake and has nothing on it about fraud ive chatted to her and feel reassured a bit thanks for that hope fully its just got to be paid back as it WAS an error she said if fraud iuc comes before arrangement to pay back is arranged ive never denied i had this money but it wasnt done deliberately and the worry its put me through now puts me off claimimg anything its so scary>

[citizenkain]

if theyve said your not getting a civil penalty thats great news,they know your paying the overpayment back and their happy with that,the amount theyve overpaid you isnt a fantastic amount and your obviously not a serial offender,just pay the overpayment back as you are and dont worry yourself about anything!

[tracieann]

thanks for your words of support citizenkain its reassuring to know peoples views i hope and pray that no prosecution will follow then i can put all this horrible time behind me the debt management lady was kind and said its been accepted as error so maybe i have over reacted somewhat its just awful to be in that position I have to get on with my life I guess

[fedupandold]

hi new here read lots and lots of posts lately managed to get on the forum so i can ask for opinions and advice so here goes.

 

I am mum of an autistic lad aged 17 he has recieved DLA mid rate and low rate MOB for a good few years .

 

When i worked smashing mum in law used to watch my son however in later years she became older and more tired

 

on the advice of my sons consultant I claimed carers allowance only working enough hours to be entitled .

 

I have always been fairly on the ball with checking earnings .etc

 

BUT last year my dear mum in law was diagnosed with cancer of the lung

we were all devastated and her chemo/ radiotherapy was awful and

checking things was not at the front of my mind to be honest also i did not receive the usual letter.

 

In Feb this year we were told cancer now in her brain and she was terminal

 

this pushed me who has suffered anx and depression for almost ten years in a really bad way as well as all my family.

 

Then i decided to volunteer for some work at hospice that helped her and

 

when i went to benefits advice they checked things out and i gave them an old wage slip and they checked

 

OMG it turned out that id been overpaid my wages by £2.39 per week for over a year.

 

I was absolutely devastated scared out of my wits and

 

I phoned them the minute I got home

 

the bloke I spoke to was ok and I said that i was now scared it hadnt been checked properly

so I sent 5 years p60s and they checked them all i just owed 2012 to 2013 which was £3458

 

i asked if i would be prosecuted they said they didnt think so but im still scared I let them know on 14th may

 

received overpayment letter 7th june and

 

arranged with debt management to pay £100 pm back

 

they said it is not marked for prosecution but

 

i am sick with worry

 

we lost my mum in law on 1st june and

 

i have lost so much weight

 

im terrified they will take my son away or ill go to prison.

 

part of the reason for overpayment was my wages went direct into husbands bank to pay direct debits

and also my tax had been reduced taking me over threshold for earnins

 

I never worked any over my set hours at any time

 

Please can some one let me know their experiences or what they think

 

ive read about interview under caution and

 

im scared although ive phoned dwp a good few times theyve said they dont think its fraud

 

im scared to believe them HELP :|

 

Are you saying that your net wages were £2.39 over the limit for every week of the year? If so, you do know that if you had paid into a personal pension policy double that amount - £4.78 every week, you would still have been entitled to the full £58.45 a week.

In other words at the cost of £248.56 into a private pension policy you would have retained the £3458!

 

As it is you have lost the £3458 by earning £125.

 

Some people actually use the Carers Allowance as a very efficient means of paying into a pension policy. One person I know earns £260 a week and pays £320 into a pension policy. The difference (£320 - £260) is made up of the Carers Allowance of £59.75. The Carers payment over the year adds up to over £3100 extra in the pot.

 

Have you not enquired about starting a pension policy? With the premiums paid in now just after the end of the tax year that the overpayment has arisen in. In your case I would be back dating the 2012/13 premium of £250 even if it is to stop them taking back the £3458.

Edited July 3, 2013 by fedupandold

[tracieann]

that dosent surprise me at all tbh but i havent been that knowledgeable about how it all worked but never mind whats happened has happened i no longer want to claim even if entitled the anxiety and stress has made me too ill.It was never my intent to get Carers if i wasnt entitled.All the worry with my mum in laws illness and passing has wrecked my mental state so im just wanting to have closure on it all

Edited July 3, 2013 by tracieann

[honeybee13]

Are you saying that your net wages were £2.39 over the limit for every week of the year? If so, you do know that if you had paid into a personal pension policy double that amount - £4.78 every week, you would still have been entitled to the full £58.45 a week.

In other words at the cost of £248.56 into a private pension policy you would have retained the £3458!

 

As it is you have lost the £3458 by earning £125.

 

Some people actually use the Carers Allowance as a very efficient means of paying into a pension policy. One person I know earns £260 a week and pays £320 into a pension policy. The difference (£320 - £260) is made up of the Carers Allowance of £59.75. The Carers payment over the year adds up to over £3100 extra in the pot.

 

Have you not enquired about starting a pension policy? With the premiums paid in now just after the end of the tax year that the overpayment has arisen in. In your case I would be back dating the 2012/13 premium of £250 even if it is to stop them taking back the £3458.

 

Can you quote an authority on a personal pension payment working please, fedupandold? Of course we don't know tracieann's employment status, age or financial position, all of which could have an impact on her ability to pay a single premium at this stage.

 

You seem to know a lot of people who are clever with ways around the benefits system.

 

HB

[tracieann]

honeybee i am married and employed for 11 and a half hours per week used to be 20 hours but cut them down when my mum in law got older had carers for about eight years i think its a struggle to pay £100 pm month but husband working so will have to manage dont understand all buying extra pensions stuff have a pension which they allowed me half of but i think it was the lowered tax that caused me to be over earnings now its been explained a bit better thanks to you and all for your interest in my problem by the way im 49 but recently feel 109

[tracieann]

i wonder if jabba jones or Erica pnp have any words of wisdom would be so grateful

[fedupandold]

Can you quote an authority on a personal pension payment working please, fedupandold? Of course we don't know tracieann's employment status, age or financial position, all of which could have an impact on her ability to pay a single premium at this stage.

 

You seem to know a lot of people who are clever with ways around the benefits system.

 

HB

If you're working and you earn less than £100 a week from paid work, you will not lose any of your Carer's Allowance. If you earn more than £100 a week, you will lose all of your Carer's Allowance for the weeks you earn that amount. Only earnings affect your entitlement to Carer's Allowance. It is not affected by other income, such as an occupational pension or maintenance payments. The £100 is a net figure, which is the amount you're left with after deductions for:

 

 

• National Insurance
  
• Income Tax
  
• half of any pension contributions you
  make
  

http://www.nhs.uk/CarersDirect/moneyandlegal/carersbenefits/Pages/CarersAllowance.aspx

 

 

There are many options available regarding a personal pension plan. One of them is a variable policy.

 

No not really I studied, qualified and worked both for the government and in private practice dealing in UK Tax Law for all of my working life.

 

Carers Allowance was always used along with other income to improve a private pension provison in a very cost effective way.

Benefits in general, have always run side by side with the 'Tax' industry.

 

Do I?

Edited July 3, 2013 by fedupandold

[fedupandold]

honeybee i am married and employed for 11 and a half hours per week used to be 20 hours but cut them down when my mum in law got older had carers for about eight years i think its a struggle to pay £100 pm month but husband working so will have to manage dont understand all buying extra pensions stuff have a pension which they allowed me half of but i think it was the lowered tax that caused me to be over earnings now its been explained a bit better thanks to you and all for your interest in my problem by the way im 49 but recently feel 109

 

If you already have a pension policy, are you not allowed to top it up with one off annual payments?

As I have said all you do is double the excess over £100 and pay it in.

 

In your case the excess was £2.39 a week - £124.28, double it to £248.56 and that is the one off pension payment.

 

You can then reduce the earnings by half of the contribution - £248.56 divided in half - £124.28 - which just so happens to be the weekly excess over the £100 max - £2.39 a week. This will result in your net income going from £102.39 a week to exactly £100.00 a week.

[antone]

i wonder if jabba jones or Erica pnp have any words of wisdom would be so grateful

 

Erika's not around at the moment as she has other concerns. I will ask Jabba Jones if he or she has any thoughts.

[tracieann]

fedupandold and antone thanks for your help ive read some good info from jabba jones and Erika on this site before i became a member the main questions I have are

a.if i have recieved my overpayment letter could i still be called for iuc as ive read that anything over £2000 can be tried for fraud aagghh

b.is there anyway that i can get a written reply to say i will not be prosecuted as i think it will set my mind at rest and stop me

obsessing thanks for your kindness guys

[jadeybags]

I had received my over payment amount & was in the process of arranging to pay it back when I got called in for an IUC. BUT it was all quite quick. I think from the day compliance visited & it became apparent I had been overpaid, them to work out the over payment, then the letter for IUC arriving was within 2 weeks. No guarantee for someone else, but I suspect you would have heard by now & I do think it would look a tad daft in court them trying to accuse you of £2 a week fraud!

Sounds like a darn awful time for you And they can see that. It is a shame about the pension, but you would have to have known you were earning too much, to think of using the £2 elsewhere & it is definitely obvious you didn't. They probably wont put it in writing, but they have done the next best thing saying they wont prosecute? The lack of penalty is a good indication too, I didn't get penalties or cautions either.

Just the darn debt to pay back grrrr

 

p.s the 2k threshold is more an indicator to what is worth while paying out court for, is it in the public purses interest kind of thing. Even higher amounts than 2k need to have a high chance of them winning in court, & it doesn't sound like yours would work for them at all.

[tracieann]

hi jadeybags and ta so much for your input its invaluable when someones been through it like ypo didnt you get prosecuted I wish they could realise what it does to someones life Yes there are people who set out to defraud hundreds and thousands of pounds but that is fairly rare surely . and the stress of waiting makes people ill Well I guess thats me vented No fraud was the last thing I would ever have done too much to lose not wise enough about payments pensions etc and going through it with our lovely Mum in law was my problem please add any input you feel can help ....as it does

[tracieann]

THANKS jadeybags really helped to hear from you I have paid back one payment so far it will take me three years in all but i am relieved to start paying it off I just wish I had been with it enough to remember to check thats all but as we said so much going on with family In a way it can happen to lots of people and its scary as hell I have never had bad thoughts despite having anx and depression for years but this made me terrified im just hoping to heaven now that all will be ok this website is fabulous for anyone going thru stuff like this thanks to you and everyone for support

[jabba jones]

fedupandold and antone thanks for your help ive read some good info from jabba jones and Erika on this site before i became a member the main questions I have are

a.if i have recieved my overpayment letter could i still be called for iuc as ive read that anything over £2000 can be tried for fraud aagghh

b.is there anyway that i can get a written reply to say i will not be prosecuted as i think it will set my mind at rest and stop me

obsessing thanks for your kindness guys

 

Tracieann, just reading through the thread.

 

Can you just confirm how I've understood it. You contacted Carers Allowance to report the problem & the overpayment was then calculated, using the information you provided them with?

[tracieann]

hi jabbajones ive read some great info started on here from you Yes i rang and informed dwp the day the benefit advisor told me i was over about an hour after actually cos i had to get home first ! Just have so much anxiety about being prosecuted it scares me witless they looked through five years p60s cos iwas scared it had been worked out wrong but there was only 2012 to 2013 £3458 nearly bloody died of shock whats your view jabbajones thanks for your support oh and yes they worked out the overpayment from the info i sent i think iwas a year and two weeks over

Edited July 4, 2013 by tracieann

[jabba jones]

Then it sounds like its all been dealt with internally by the benefit processing section & their decision makers.

 

They've not referred it to fraud & the overpayment letter you received will have had slightly different wording on it to the one that issued after a fraud investigation.

 

This means that even if FIS do find out about the work in a future scan, there is nothing to investigate, the benefit decision has already been made & they wouldn't be able to prosecute you anyway.

 

Hopefully this helps & you can stop worrying!