Secure Car Parks Limited.

[sploits]

Hi fellow CAGgers,

 

I got a parking invoice in the lovely town of Workington back on 6th August 2012.

 

As usual I popped it away in a safe place and forgot about it.

 

Today I get a nice letter from Secure Car Parks Limited asking me to pay it.

 

I usually just ignore as I know the idiots will give up and go away after time.

 

This letter though made me laugh at what lies they will go to to try and make people pay.

 

As stated above the invoice was popped on my car in August of this year.

The protection of freedom act came into play 1st October.

 

They have stated in their letter that due to the protection of freedom act they have the right to recover the amount they think is owed (a stonking 60 quid) from the registered keeper.

 

Legal action will then be commenced to recover all amounts due together with any associated cost incurred.

 

I feel I can have some fun with this or hopefully land them in bother due to the fact they are stating acts that were in force in August.

 

They also state the appeals process with POPLA which again I believe didn't come into play until 1st October either.

 

Is there anything I can do? Ignoring this one seems less fun than stirring up some of the brown stuff

 

Your thoughts and info would be fantastic on this.

 

Cheers,

 

Sploits

[DBC]

Ask them for a full breakdown of the actual losses suffered by the landowner, as this is the only amount of money they can claim.

[sploits]

Hi DBC,

 

Yes that is a one option that I am sorting out (will email them as I am not spending any money on stamps to post them stuff).

Is there anyone I can complaint to about them stating things that aren't true in their letter?

[DBC]

Are they a member of the BPA and of the AOS schem? If no,t then they cannot access DVLA data. They seem to be a very strange company this are their details from Companies House:-

 

SECURE CAR PARKS LIMITED

KINGSBURY JIG & TOOL GROUP LTD

LONDON ROAD, BASSETTS POLE

SUTTON COLDFIELD

WEST MIDLANDS

B75 5SA

Company No. 03069316

 

Edit - I see that they are AOS members.

[sploits]

Yes I Googled them also and found this out.

Yes they are also a member of the BPA (membership number 30531)

[Michael Browne]

Are they a member of the BPA and of the AOS schem? If no,t then they cannot access DVLA data.

 

They are listed:

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/AOS-Members

[i hate bailiffs]

Hi DBC,

 

Yes that is a one option that I am sorting out (will email them as I am not spending any money on stamps to post them stuff).

Is there anyone I can complaint to about them stating things that aren't true in their letter?

 

Always back it up with a letter in the post forgetting to put the stamp on that should cost them:wink:

[sploits]

Always back it up with a letter in the post forgetting to put the stamp on that should cost them:wink:

I like your style

[instrumentsofjoy]

I like your style

 

Mark it cheque enclosed - that way they are bound to accept it.

 

However the people to report them to are the DVLA

 

Email [email protected] pointing out they are misrepresenting the law.

 

(Law of October 1st is not retrospective therefore does not apply to your ticket).

[sploits]

Mike Butler will be getting an email pretty soon

 

The email I sent Secure Car Parks Limited was this:

 

Re: Speculative Invoice

 

Hi,

Thank you for your lovely letter. I would just like to point out that you have mentioned the Protection of freedoms act 2012 and POPLA. I would like to point out (and you really should have known this) that the protection of freedoms act and POPLA only came into force as of 1st October 2012. The invoice that you kindly placed on my car was from August (pre-October) so none of that statement in your letter is of any relevance to this invoice.

Also can you provide me with a breakdown of how you come to £60? This has to be actual loss of earnings and not something that would deem it as a penalty.

Are you the landowner? If not then what right do you think you have to pursue me for land you do not own (only the land owner can go after somebody for loss of earnings).

How can you prove I was the driver? I am under no legal obligation to tell you who was or wasn't the driver (again pre-October).

 

I look forward to your response,*

 

I wonder what I will get back

[sploits]

Mike Butler now has an email sitting in his inbox ready for him to read.

 

I will let you know of the outcomes from Secure Car Parks Limited and Mike Butler.

 

Thanks

[ploddertom]

Always back it up with a letter in the post forgetting to put the stamp on that should cost them:wink:

 

Doesn't work unfortunately as all the receiver gets is a card from RM stating they are holding a piece of post that needs paying for - doesn't say what it is or who it is from. You then have to return the card with the appropriate payment bought in stamps on it.

[sploits]

I have recieved a reply (and quite comical to say the least)

 

Good Morning Sploits,

 

We are in receipt of your email please find our response below:

 

While we are aware of the rules regarding the protections of freedoms act we are obliged as part of our code of practice with the British Parking Association to inform all drivers of the information regarding the Protection of freedoms act 2012 and the letter sent to you has been approved by them and has to be sent to all motorist from the 1st October 2012 despite when the ticket was issued.

 

We have permission from the land owner to issue and recover amounts due for parking charge notices on there behalf under trespass or Contract law.

 

While you are under no legal obligation to name the driver as your ticket was issued before the 1st October 2012 , we have acted reasonably and requested that you provide us with these details if you were not the driver, if you still refuse to give this information we will still proceed to reclaim costs at court on the balance of probabilities and reasonability because :

1. The registered keeper will usually know who drives there car.

2. They have refused to pass on details of whom the driver was ,due to this being a family member or close friend.

The judge will then decided if the registered keeper has acted reasonable by withholding the drivers details.

 

In regards to our fee of £60 for parking charge notices ,this is reduced to £30 if it was paid with in 14days from date of issue , as you choose to ignore this ticket and not pay the reduced amount or appeal the ticket within the time scale given then the discounted offer expires and the full amount of £60 becomes due.

 

Our fee of £60 is approved under the Approved Operator Scheme code of practice and does not exceed there recommended amount of £100 and is deemed reasonable I have listed a few of the items our parking charge fees are worked out on using expenses and loss suffered due to none payment of parking fees:

1. Possible max amount of earnings per parking space per day £19.20

2. Parking inspector Wages ...£3.63 per ticket issued

3.Fee To BPA Ect per ticket £32.00

4. Admin Wages £2.74

5.Stationery costs £0.50

6.Maintenance of signs £ 6.64

This totals £64.71 and does not include other expenses and losses for us to issue parking charge notices.

 

If you require any further information please contact me on 0121 308 8857 or at [email protected].

 

Payment details are on your letter along with time scales and our process for further action, Again if you were not the driver at the time the ticket was issued we invite you to supply the full name and address and we will send the request to them.

 

Kind Regards

 

Louise Sall

 

 

 

So loss of earnings covers parking there for a full day (I was there for about 20 minutes)? the charge has to cover wages, stationary, toilet roll (which they have to pay regardless).

 

Advice on a great reply email will be most helpful

[DBC]

I hope you don't mind, but I have copied this over to the MSE forum for their suggestions to help you.

[Parking Alf]

Our fee of £60 is approved under the Approved Operator Scheme code of practice and does not exceed there recommended amount of £100 and is deemed reasonable I have listed a few of the items our parking charge fees are worked out on using expenses and loss suffered due to none payment of parking fees:

1. Possible max amount of earnings per parking space per day £19.20

2. Parking inspector Wages ...£3.63 per ticket issued

3.Fee To BPA Ect per ticket £32.00

4. Admin Wages £2.74

5.Stationery costs £0.50

6.Maintenance of signs £ 6.64

This totals £64.71 and does not include other expenses and losses for us to issue parking charge notices.

 

 

 

So loss of earnings covers parking there for a full day (I was there for about 20 minutes)? the charge has to cover wages, stationary, toilet roll (which they have to pay regardless).

 

Advice on a great reply email will be most helpful

 

 

Oh, that's a good one. Trying to claim staff wages as a loss? I think not. That's an overhead of running a business. And BPA fee? Again, how is this a loss? And claiming for a whole day's maximum potential income from a parking space when the space was occupied for less than an hour? That sounds positively fraudulent.

 

I can't imagaine what a judge might make of that.

[sploits]

Not a problem DBC. could you possibly PM me the link so I can watch the replies flood in? EDIT: Its OK I have found it

 

Exactly what I thought Parking alf (hence the toilet roll comment lol). I am getting ready to beg them to take me to court

[i hate bailiffs]

I have recieved a reply (and quite comical to say the least)

 

Good Morning Sploits,

 

We are in receipt of your email please find our response below:

 

While we are aware of the rules regarding the protections of freedoms act we are obliged as part of our code of practice with the British Parking Association to inform all drivers of the information regarding the Protection of freedoms act 2012 and the letter sent to you has been approved by them and has to be sent to all motorist from the 1st October 2012 despite when the ticket was issued.

 

We have permission from the land owner to issue and recover amounts due for parking charge notices on there behalf under trespass or Contract law.

 

While you are under no legal obligation to name the driver as your ticket was issued before the 1st October 2012 , we have acted reasonably and requested that you provide us with these details if you were not the driver, if you still refuse to give this information we will still proceed to reclaim costs at court on the balance of probabilities and reasonability because :

1. The registered keeper will usually know who drives there car.

2. They have refused to pass on details of whom the driver was ,due to this being a family member or close friend.

The judge will then decided if the registered keeper has acted reasonable by withholding the drivers details.

 

In regards to our fee of £60 for parking charge notices ,this is reduced to £30 if it was paid with in 14days from date of issue , as you choose to ignore this ticket and not pay the reduced amount or appeal the ticket within the time scale given then the discounted offer expires and the full amount of £60 becomes due.

 

Our fee of £60 is approved under the Approved Operator Scheme code of practice and does not exceed there recommended amount of £100 and is deemed reasonable I have listed a few of the items our parking charge fees are worked out on using expenses and loss suffered due to none payment of parking fees:

1. Possible max amount of earnings per parking space per day £19.20

2. Parking inspector Wages ...£3.63 per ticket issued

3.Fee To BPA Ect per ticket £32.00

4. Admin Wages £2.74

5.Stationery costs £0.50

6.Maintenance of signs £ 6.64

This totals £64.71 and does not include other expenses and losses for us to issue parking charge notices.

 

If you require any further information please contact me on 0121 308 8857 or at [email protected].

 

Payment details are on your letter along with time scales and our process for further action, Again if you were not the driver at the time the ticket was issued we invite you to supply the full name and address and we will send the request to them.

 

Kind Regards

 

Louise Sall

 

 

 

So loss of earnings covers parking there for a full day (I was there for about 20 minutes)? the charge has to cover wages, stationary, toilet roll (which they have to pay regardless).

 

Advice on a great reply email will be most helpful

 

Dont forget there new Crayons

[sploits]

New crayons?? Oh don't say that as if they have missed it out then the £64.71 will go even higher

[DBC]

Of course the one big elephant in the room is that any true losses have to be those of the landowner and not of the PPC.

[sploits]

Brilliant DBC (having mentioned the landowner in my original email to them I had forgotten about them in the reply from SCPL)

[sploits]

The email I have so far (feel free to tell me to amend/delete/add anything you feel relevant).

 

Good Morning Louise,

 

Thank you for your email reply. It has helped brighten up this rather dull day up here in Cumbria (when will it ever stop raining?).

RE: The judge will then decided if the registered keeper has acted reasonable by withholding the drivers details.

In law this has no bearing whatsoever on the liability of the keeper to pay the 'PENALTY' amount you are trying to claim.

 

RE: Breakdown of loss of earnings.

From what I beleive the car was parked on the said car park for no longer than 1 hour. How you think claiming a FULL days earning of £19.20 is deemed fair is beyond me.

Parking inspector wages is payable by you regardless of whether parking invoices are issued or not.

Fee to BPA is payable by YOU not me.

Admin/stationary/maintenance of signs are all normal overheads of running a business.

 

None of the above is an actual loss of earnings.

 

Also as you have stated in your email you are NOT the landowner, how can you claim loss of earnings for something you don't own?

 

Again I look forward to your reply.

 

Kindest regards,

[i hate bailiffs]

Fee to BPA is payable by YOU not me.

 

may need to change that bit don't want to admit to anything

[sploits]

No problem it is now amended to just say 'Fee to BPA' (as a roll up of the loss of earnings).

[sploits]

The email has left the building!!!!!!

 

Good Morning Louise,

 

Thank you for your email reply. It has helped brighten up this rather dull day up here in Cumbria (when will it ever stop raining?).

RE: The judge will then decided if the registered keeper has acted reasonable by withholding the drivers details.

In law this has no bearing whatsoever on the liability of the keeper to pay the 'PENALTY' amount you are trying to claim.

 

RE: Breakdown of loss of earnings.

From what I beleive the car was parked on the said car park for no longer than 1 hour. How you think claiming a FULL days earning of £19.20 is deemed fair is beyond me.

Parking inspector wages is payable by the PPC regardless of whether parking invoices are issued or not.

Fee to BPA

Admin/stationary/maintenance of signs are all normal overheads of running a business.

 

None of the above is an actual loss of earnings and are part of the normal business running costs!

 

Also as you have stated in your email you are NOT the landowner. How can you claim loss of earnings for something you don't own? Losses have to be to the Landowner and not the PPC (ie Secure Car Parks Limited). I also advise you to take a look at the HMRC vs VCS case.

 

Again I look forward to your reply.

 

Kindest regards,

Edited November 9, 2012 by sploits

[Homer67]

Personally I would identify the driver as follows:

 

As you are insisting I identify the driver I will endeavour to do so, first I should explain to you that I have many social interests and among them are dogging and swinging and it was one of these that I was indulging in when your car parking ticket was issued, to save you the embarrasement of asking what these past-times are, I'll give you a brief outline:

 

Dogging is sex with strangers in public places with lots of other 'Doggers' (that's what we call ourselves) watching and joining in or simply just watching and maybe having a little fiddle at the same time. Swinging is sex with strangers in private premises, again those Swingers (Some Doggers are Swingers and vice versa but not all enjoy both disciplines) present are able to join in the fun or just watch. Both are consential and I have to say a jolly good deal of fun (even if one is a little sore apres swing/dog if you know what I mean)

 

I hope this explains my initial reluctance to reveal who was the driver of my car on that day.

 

The issue is that the whole point of my chosen (and much enjoyed) hobbies is that the person or persons (if one is fortunate enough) swinging or dogging with you are strangers, that's not to say you have no background knowledge but naturally people are reluctant to reveal their true identitiy as they may be prominent in society (as well as elsewhere - nudge nudge wink wink), they may be a boss of a high flying organisation such as a ICI or even a Private Parking Parking company (check out the locations, you may recognise someone!)

 

Anyhoo I digress, as I usually do when discussing my hobbies, they are so wonderfully indulgent and sometimes chocolaty as well

 

So on the day of the ticket issuing I was with a very special member of my swinging group who had popped round to demonstrate his brand new 10 inch ribbed arse reamer and I have to inform you that it was he that parked my car so illegally and without thought for others or your profits, as he was in a rush to purchase condoms for his aforementioned 10 inch ribbed arse reamer, did I mention it's a special velvet touch rubber?

 

Alas it could not be me as at that time I was chained to my bed having hot wax dripped on my nether regions by his very well endowed partner (do you know they've been together 35 years? They say those who play together, stay together don't you know) in preperation for the 10 inch ribbed arse reamer

 

So in accordance with your instructions as you say it is a legal requirement (I do take instruction well, it's why I'm so popular on the slave circuit) for me to reveal who was driving my car and so heiniously incurred your wrath and subsequent parking invoice, although it is with great reluctance for fear I may never experience a reaming like that again (I couldn't walk properly for week) that the person driving my car on that day was SchlongDong 69

 

I wish you well in your search for ScholngDong 69 and if you see him before me tell him he left his jumbo tube of KY Jelly here but not to worry as I've kept it safe, ta ta for now, *hugs*