New Generation vanishing windscreen CCTV PCN Now Claimform - Not parked within the confines of a marked bay - Malpas Road Shopping Centre NP20 6WB

[Outoftoon]

Received a PCN when driving into a small retail park and after reversing into a disabled parking space to enable me to turn around and leave the retail park.

Time from entering the retail park and leaving was 5 minutes and the reason it was this long was because it was busy and another car was doing exactly the same as me, the other car was to the side of me I had to wait for them to reverse and drive out so I could do the same.

I never parked, left the car or switched my engine off and as previously stated was only in the retail park for 5 mins.

Advice on how to constructively appeal this would be gratefully appreciated 

[dx100uk]

there is a mandatory 10mins min grace period.

BB Bays mean nothing on private land

 

please complete this:

 

[Outoftoon]

1 Date of the infringement 24/01/2023

 

2 Date on the NTK 31/01/2023
 

3 Date received 04/02/2023
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N- Cannot see this mentioned, it keeps referring to the clear signage in and around the site. 
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] Not yet
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? New Generation Parking Management

 

8. Where exactly? Malpas Road Shopping Centre NP20 6WB
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC

 

 

NTK.pdf

[dx100uk]

so not parked within lines, eh?

that means they should have put a ticket on your windscreen. i bet there are no photos taken either.

 

this will be a CCTV system being used to trap people.

 

so speculative invoice is faulty, 

 

sit on your hands

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

Were there photographs of your car showing it over the lines?

[Outoftoon]

I never parked, I was turning around and reversed into a "bay" whilst turning 

Edited February 4, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

go up on that website they mention and get all the photos please

do it soon b4 they hide them.

 

 

[Outoftoon]

You'll see in the photos that I started to reverse so I could turnaround, opposite you can see a grey Vauxhall that had reversed into a parking space so waited for them to park 

then a red Audi also started reversing, next to me, to turn around  - had to wait for them before pulling out and leaving.

Not once did I leave the car.

Literally was 5 mins between entering and leaving the retail park.

Entering and leaving

 

Photos.pdf

[FTMDave]

Where to start?

 

No keeper liability as there bilge wasn't sent out in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act.

 

Not a parking event.

 

A "stay" of four minutes and one second, within the consideration period.

 

This is going nowhere.  They won't do court, and if the did they would lose.

[Outoftoon]

Thanks, I thought we might have a field day with this but wanted to get it right and not ignore it.

 

[brassnecked]

they might send more threatograms, but if they did try court they would not get far.

[Outoftoon]

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

[FTMDave]

If you do want a "field day" at the idiots' expense, then SAR them tomorrow.

 

After the paragraph -

 

For the avoidance of doubt, and as stated above, this Subject Access Request requires disclosure of ALL personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you

 

Add -

 

It certainly involves CCTV footage and photos taken from CCTV footage.

 

The imbeciles will have the choice of (a) respecting the SAR request and having to send all the CCTV stuff which will completely back up what you've told us, or (b) not complying with their statutory duty and leaving themselves open to be sued.

 

Recently a couple of Caggers have made £200 this way.

 

If you do do this, get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

 

 

[Outoftoon]

my appeal and their reply

 

 

Anyone able to kindly help and/or offer feedback on my rejected claim above please

my appeal + their reply (1).pdf

[dx100uk]

who said appeal?

yours is now not the next move

await if/when they ever send a letter of claim

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Yes.  Why on earth did you appeal?  No-one advised you to do that.  Nowhere on any threads on the forum do we say to appeal.  Why?  Because the PPCs never, ever, ever accept appeals (as in this case) and motorists invariably throw away legal protections (it's now irrelevant whether they have respected Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act as you've outed yourself as the driver - Therefore you have not provided me with a reasonable period to enter premises, consider the terms and conditions that apply, decide whether or not to park there, and either find a space or leave the car park before becoming liable to any parking charge).

 

We said to consider sending a SAR to get your hands on the CCTV footage.  Not to appeal.

Edited February 27, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo

[brassnecked]

By appealing you have actually thrown away ant POFA protection, now it makes things more difficult but not absolutely irrecoverable.

[Outoftoon]

I have messed this up then?

 

Sorry guys for not interpreting the advice you provided, I was trying to get advice to appeal it but re-reading the posts now I can see I totally went against your advice/recommendation.

 

Is it too late to do the SAR or do I just sit tight now?

Edited February 27, 2023 by dx100uk
please dont swear

[FTMDave]

Don't worry.

 

You had a load of arguments against them before your appeal.  For example - no keeper liability so no-one to take to court; not a parking event; stay within the consideration period, etc.

 

Now one of those reasons has been lost as you've outed yourself as the driver, but all the others remain.  What you've done isn't fatal.  All of us here have made mistakes when in legal dispute, the point is to learn from the mistakes for the future.

 

Yes, send the SAR in the way suggested six posts above.

 

 

[dx100uk]

On 04/02/2023 at 15:25, dx100uk said:

sit on your hands

you've not only given away who was driving thus losing your legal protection under pofa 2012, you've also told them how your will be defending a court claim if they are brave enough. ut there are other reasons,

 

not too fatal but for future readers never ever ever appeal unless one of cag's experts specifically tells you too and states what exactly to write.

 

dx

 

[Nicky Boy]

It's not all bad guys.

In one way, the OP's appeal may be useful later down the line.

 

It is now on record that the fleecers have been made aware of the 5 minute grace period.

(Even though they've been too stupid to drop the whole thing).

 

If they carry it on to court, any judge should kick them all over the room.

 

The OP would also have a very good GDPR case afterwards.

[lookinforinfo]

No period of parking mentioned on the PCN-a requirement of PoFA.  The photographs show the times of entering and leaving which is not a period of parking. This is evidenced   by the fact that your car took almost two minutes to get to the disabled spot and still hadn't parked by then. 

Presumably it would have taken around another couple of minutes to drive out of the car park so the time actually spent in the disabled area had to be less than 90 seconds. 

[AndyOrch]

Topic open

[Outoftoon]

I have now received a court claim form, probably due to me totally messing it up and not listening to people on here.

Feel embarrassed to ask for advice but here goes as this is a principle thing and not a money thing and I don't want to be bullied by these companies especially when the PCN issued is an absolute joke.

1.    The Defendant (D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle ******* at Malpas Road Shopping Centre NP20 6WB.
2.    The PCN(s) were issued on 24/01/2023
3.    The defendant is pursued as the driver of the vehicle for breach of the terms on the signs (the contract). Reason: Not Parked Within The Confines Of A Marked Bay
4.    In the alternative the defendant is pursued as the keeper pursuant to POFA 2012, Schedule 4.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1.    £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages.
2.    Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of£.02 until judgment or sooner payment.
3.    Costs and court fees

How do I respond? 

Claim Form.pdf

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
then log in to the MCOL Website

.select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.then using the details required from the claimform

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

.................

 

since you were last here 11months ago, have you received a letter of claim?

dx