Is the bank taking your Benefits ?

[InformedSearcher]

Hi

I have a thread open from yesterday, I have not had any advice yet on what to do next for my son. Could someone plese look at my thread and advise? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/201306-help-required-bank-charges.html#post2191149

 

They seem to have ignored the social security act, have said that hardship cannot be considered as on the running of the account they can see that regular deposits were credited (past tense)? His jobseekers goes in to a different account. All of the amount overdrawn is bank charges and he does not have an overdraft facility. The amount was just £20 overdrawn and went up to £297 with charges added on. £100 was paid in to his account by his sister, because she was scared for him.

Any help on what to say in my complaint would be great

Thanks

JP08

 

I've made a reply in the thread you started.

Michael

[InformedSearcher]

I know this is not really on topic here but has everyone noticed that the CC companies now call all their £12 charges 'Default Sums'?

Michael

[Vital Spark]

A ruse by any other name.........

[InformedSearcher]

Little (personal) update here (and cynically amusing too!):

I posted details regarding HSBC and myself in early May. The jist of it was that after chatting at length and supplying Income and Expenditure details it was agreed that 'no' attempt would be made in June to take a loan payment. It was stated that calls would not happen and on 1st June I would be contacted for an update of the situation.

Nice eh, all 'arranged' at it were?! What actually happened was in the week prior to the end of May I received 3 calls and only 1 of which I managed to answer as the other 2 stopped before I could speak. I explianed (sigh) the agreement made and after checking notes the conversation ended. On 4th June I thought I should pay all my bills as almost fainted when I saw 2 (yes 2!!) instalment loan payments had been taken on 2nd June. Today (5th June) I received a call before I could call them fuming at what had happened. The opening line after the usual security bit, 'Hello this is the HSBC collections department regarding outstading payments on your loan account'. This is the type of 'idiotic not knowing a problem before opening mouth' usual thing from all financial institutions and not just HSBC. It's the usual type of robotic responces that happen whatever you say.

The end result was the payments were reinstated onto our(now reduced to a basic) current account. One of the things avoid payments (and hassle) was to agree the account downgrading yet it was a totally pointless task. Motto 'Never believe anything you are told'. Having not been advised the monies were restored guess what the next question was? - Yes, you've guessed it, 'How much will you be paying off your loan today?'. Apaprt from me flying off the handle requesting the call be listened to I despair at the performance I endured. 'You are welcome to complain sir', and 'If you are not happy with our responce you can complain to the FSA' are unbelievable statements from robotic collection drones. This was all done even after I mentioned 'Beachy Head' as possibly being a furture option too!

Complaints are seldom if ever upheld by the bank and complaining to the FSA means the bank sends you the same answer. They are clever at always just getting to the line but not crossing it.

Michael

[JonCris]

Micheal sorry to be blunt but why aren't you recording them & if not why not

[citizenB]

Michael, would it not be worth your setting up a parachute account with another bank

[yourbank]

i still it might be worth asking the bank to give you a transcript of the call(if they have one, of course).

[MARTIN3030]

I know this is not really on topic here but has everyone noticed that the CC companies now call all their £12 charges 'Default Sums'?

Michael

 

It appears to be an approach adopted by other sectors too such as insurance.

Nevertheless,when push comes to the shove they are still very reluctant in providing a breakdown that demonstrates the £12 as a genuine pre-estimate of what it costs them to administer.

I had all my £12 charges refunded by Swinton Insurance after quite lengthly communications with them at CEO level.

They continually maintained that I had agreed to terms and conditions and that was the end of the matter.

I replied that although I had agreed to their terms and conditions,I had not agreed that the £12.00 was a true calculation of what it cost them to deal with a default-and gave them a 14 day LBA to prove it to be the case.

Their cheque promptly followed in 10 days !!!

[InformedSearcher]

Micheal sorry to be blunt but why aren't you recording them & if not why not

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies...

 

With respect to recording one has to advise or have audible beeps to indicate a call is being recorded. Recording calls is IMHO not a 'best' way of dealing with things.

The facts are simple in that they take notes. They are good at taking notes. In my case there was 'no' dispute to what I commented was said - that was of course when the 'this is the collections department' repeated reply ended. I made it plain that he scroll back on the notes. In the end with my prompting he did apologise and whilst I was on the phone the funds were 'reversed'. This however, should never have happened in the first place.

Yes, I agree that I should set up another 'basic account' with a different bank. I've been meaning to do this for a long time so I should kick myself for not doing this earlier. The fact is that it's my wife's income within a joint account as mine is nowadays 'zero'. The other income is the (embarassing) council tax and housing allowance.

 

Thanks again

Michael

[pezz1753]

THE ABBEY have today taken £145 in one go, in charges from my account which completely wiped out my £110 family credit and left me with £6 to last the rest of the week. This money is supposed to be for myself and my handicapped teenage son coupled with my low weekly wage. When I complained, I felt humilated that I had to BEG for my own money back!

 

Eventually, I was informed in front of other customers that £75 would be put back 'This Time' only. I was told that it dos'nt matter where the money comes from, if it's in my account they will take it if I owe them charges!...Surely our family credit was'nt awarded to swell the coffers of these already bloated banks! I even sent in a 'Right of Appropreation' 3 months ago but it was completely ignored.

 

Surely this underhand 'abhorrent' idea of taking peoples basic living benefits to pay off illegal extortionate bank charges cannot be legal or continue without some sort of FIGHT BACK?

 

pezz1753

[yourbank]

THE ABBEY have today taken £145 in one go, in charges from my account which completely wiped out my £110 family credit and left me with £6 to last the rest of the week. This money is supposed to be for myself and my handicapped teenage son coupled with my low weekly wage. When I complained, I felt humilated that I had to BEG for my own money back!

 

Eventually, I was informed in front of other customers that £75 would be put back 'This Time' only. I was told that it dos'nt matter where the money comes from, if it's in my account they will take it if I owe them charges!...Surely our family credit was'nt awarded to swell the coffers of these already bloated banks! I even sent in a 'Right of Appropreation' 3 months ago but it was completely ignored.

When benefits goes into an account it is treated as income, and if bank charges are incurred then they are legitimate(given the OFT test case has yet to be finally completed). However, the Right of Appropriation is very hazy at best and most banks do not seem to have any hard and fast rule even though you have that right.

Surely this underhand 'abhorrent' idea of taking peoples basic living benefits to pay off illegal extortionate bank charges cannot be legal or continue without some sort of FIGHT BACK?

 

pezz1753

 

There is an argument that would say that the charges are the consequence of not covering payments going out. I would say if an account is incurring regular charges that you need to open a parachute account for the benefits in all honesty.

[pezz1753]

Thanks 'YourBank' your advice is much appreciated!

 

Pezz1753;)

[InformedSearcher]

THE ABBEY have today taken £145 in one go, in charges from my account which completely wiped out my £110 family credit and left me with £6 to last the rest of the week. This money is supposed to be for myself and my handicapped teenage son coupled with my low weekly wage. When I complained, I felt humilated that I had to BEG for my own money back!

 

Eventually, I was informed in front of other customers that £75 would be put back 'This Time' only. I was told that it dos'nt matter where the money comes from, if it's in my account they will take it if I owe them charges!...Surely our family credit was'nt awarded to swell the coffers of these already bloated banks! I even sent in a 'Right of Appropreation' 3 months ago but it was completely ignored.

 

Surely this underhand 'abhorrent' idea of taking peoples basic living benefits to pay off illegal extortionate bank charges cannot be legal or continue without some sort of FIGHT BACK?

 

pezz1753

 

I'd ages ago would have said 'complain in writing' but from my own experience know this will do nothing. Are you saying that a bank teller spoke to you at the counter in public? If so this is to say the least shameful (and of course embarassing) and should never happen.

As mentioned nicely by 'YourBank' open up a basic account - It would strangely seem that Barclay's is a suggested best bet for that having viewed others.

Having been blatantly lied to and then told they were being helpful I don't believe anything a bank tells me anymore.

Dare we ask why they charged you without notice £145 in one fail swoop?

Michael

[pezz1753]

The charges were 4 X £35 Charges for NOT paying four direct debits over a two week period in May and also single charge of £5 in June. I emailed them in May and asked for time to pay & explained my current circumstances and naively assumed it would be taken in installments, I was quite shocked when they took it all at once. So in actual fact they charged me £145 for doing nothing more than refusing my DDs!...Nice work if you can get it!!

I appreciate that these charges will at some time be taken from my account, but I never thought that they would wait until my Family Credit was paid in on a Monday to take it! They can quite easily check to see that I get paid monthly from my job and they could have just waited until my July wages were paid in and then deduct the charges in installments.

 

My point is; that Family Benefits such as Family Credit should be 'untouchable' when it comes to collecting illegal extortionate charges like these. These family credit entitlements are based on 'family' circumstances such as my handicapped son and therefore that money is provided by the tax-payer for that family not just the person who actually receives it each week. Why should the other family members be denied their entitlement because I have inadvertently accumilated these extortionate & illegal bank charges?

 

Pezz1753

[InformedSearcher]

The charges were 4 X £35 Charges for NOT paying four direct debits over a two week period in May and also single charge of £5 in June. I emailed them in May and asked for time to pay & explained my current circumstances and naively assumed it would be taken in installments, I was quite shocked when they took it all at once. So in actual fact they charged me £145 for doing nothing more than refusing my DDs!...Nice work if you can get it!!

I appreciate that these charges will at some time be taken from my account, but I never thought that they would wait until my Family Credit was paid in on a Monday to take it! They can quite easily check to see that I get paid monthly from my job and they could have just waited until my July wages were paid in and then deduct the charges in installments.

 

My point is; that Family Benefits such as Family Credit should be 'untouchable' when it comes to collecting illegal extortionate charges like these. These family credit entitlements are based on 'family' circumstances such as my handicapped son and therefore that money is provided by the tax-payer for that family not just the person who actually receives it each week. Why should the other family members be denied their entitlement because I have inadvertently accumilated these extortionate & illegal bank charges?

 

Pezz1753

 

Okay.

From this it's assumed that the DD's are now cancelled? This is normal practice. The only thing anyone would offer would be an overdraft which can be decided instantly otherwise it's a loan (which can these days be handled just as fast.

Personally I've been in exactly the same situation. I take it you've applied for 'financial hardship' (as in repayment of bank charges) however when I did they refused it on the grounds it was (at that time) my own fault back in January.

The view of the banks is that if the funds are there they will take them. If not and you have D/D's or S/O's that they do not pay they will assume the charges automatically. Their view is the emphasis is on yourself to ensure funds are available. What concerns me is that you previously said you were sown up in front of other customers. Never should this kind of action be done in public as at the 'teller' point. Whilst as I mentioned before complaiints are commonplace you might lodge this in the way you were treated as a good lever to refund the charges.

Untill the court case is finalised and the OFT has the ability to decide on charges it's not something that will go away. Personal situations until then are wise to talk to the bank. I seldom ever step foot into my HSBC local branch but if you feel better doing that make an appointment to see them. If the D/D's are still in place they will be called on again and charges made. The problem is that a creditor might make the call for payment again before the next due date and if their are no funds the bank will charge. The situation be it for whatever reason is looked on equally. In my case I'm now unemployed, get no benefits and want to work (more than many can possibly imagine) - To the bank that is quite irrelevant and my loan with them will eventually go into default for non payment.

Michael

[pezz1753]

Thanks...'Informed Searcher' for taking the time to clarify some of the more confusing points regarding my problem....your time is much appreciated...

 

Pezz1753

[InformedSearcher]

I meant to add that it's not unusual (and quite common practise) for a bank to close an account if over a 3 month period more than 6 D/D's or S/O's are refused/returned. If you find that the fugure is going to be that it might be wise to cancel them all yourself. Many D/D's unpaid incur penalties from the respective creditors as well just to add to the spiraling debt.

Michael

[JonCris]

THE ABBEY have today taken £145 in one go, in charges from my account which completely wiped out my £110 family credit and left me with £6 to last the rest of the week. This money is supposed to be for myself and my handicapped teenage son coupled with my low weekly wage. When I complained, I felt humilated that I had to BEG for my own money back!

 

Eventually, I was informed in front of other customers that £75 would be put back 'This Time' only. I was told that it dos'nt matter where the money comes from, if it's in my account they will take it if I owe them charges!...Surely our family credit was'nt awarded to swell the coffers of these already bloated banks! I even sent in a 'Right of Appropreation' 3 months ago but it was completely ignored.

 

Surely this underhand 'abhorrent' idea of taking peoples basic living benefits to pay off illegal extortionate bank charges cannot be legal or continue without some sort of FIGHT BACK?

 

pezz1753

 

This behaviour by some jumped up little snotty jobsworth is not only probably a breach of whatever guidelines they have but it's also unlawful as it breached your rights under the DPA - Personally I would go back into the branch demand to see the manager & tell them in no uncertain terms as loudly as possible that you fully intend to report them AND their employee to the ICO - jumped up little twots:mad:

 

There are some who come on these sites & ask that we be sympathetic to front line staff - "It's not their fault" they bleat - sorry utter nonsense they know full well that what they are doing is if not unlawful at least immoral - Having listened & been a witness to some of their behaviour I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for bank staff who follow the party line & the more who lose their jobs the better I'll like it:lol:

[Lola2806]

Hi, just got a quick question.

 

My partner has been trying to claim back 2 charges from Alliance & Leicester. We are currently on benefits & the only money that goes into his account is JSA. He went over his authorised overdraft by less than £5 & got charged, putting him further over the overdraft & we couldn't clear it immediately, so got charged for that too. he wrote claiming financial hardship & they wrote back asking him to complete an income/expenditure form which he did. They've now written again saying that they want to see proof of 3 months income (payslips) or benefit payment as they cannot see it crediting on his account & also details of any savings.

He did explain on the form that we receive housing benefit, child tax credit & child benefit, but that those come into my account which is not held with Alliance & Leicester. I am guessing those are the payments that they are referring to not showing on his account, but is it entirely necessary for me to send them details of what gets paid into my account? I've done 2 financial hardship claims myself this year & neither asked me for proof of income/benefits, they just credited the money back to me. It seems like a lot of information (or an excuse to stall!)

[InformedSearcher]

Hi, just got a quick question.

 

My partner has been trying to claim back 2 charges from Alliance & Leicester. We are currently on benefits & the only money that goes into his account is JSA. He went over his authorised overdraft by less than £5 & got charged, putting him further over the overdraft & we couldn't clear it immediately, so got charged for that too. he wrote claiming financial hardship & they wrote back asking him to complete an income/expenditure form which he did. They've now written again saying that they want to see proof of 3 months income (payslips) or benefit payment as they cannot see it crediting on his account & also details of any savings.

He did explain on the form that we receive housing benefit, child tax credit & child benefit, but that those come into my account which is not held with Alliance & Leicester. I am guessing those are the payments that they are referring to not showing on his account, but is it entirely necessary for me to send them details of what gets paid into my account? I've done 2 financial hardship claims myself this year & neither asked me for proof of income/benefits, they just credited the money back to me. It seems like a lot of information (or an excuse to stall!)

 

This is actually a standard request. I've been through it all in entirety. Previously were you claiming just recently charged fees or actual 'hardship' in respect of bank charges?

They expect a true and qualified display of total household income. You want items refunded claiming financial hardship and they want the details to prove it. Sadly in this case it might mean you copying other bank details as you say housing benefits etc get paid into another banks account. If they still doubt they might even make a CRA enquiry but this is not mormal.

It's been mentioned many times before but hardship claims are voluntary in respect of a financial institution's final decision. You'll need to show that what you defined as income can be quantified (as mentioned before) but I'd suggest that banks are reasonably generous on expenditure allowances even to allow for alcohol and tobacco.

Michael

[yourbank]

This behaviour by some jumped up little snotty jobsworth is not only probably a breach of whatever guidelines they have but it's also unlawful as it breached your rights under the DPA - Personally I would go back into the branch demand to see the manager & tell them in no uncertain terms as loudly as possible that you fully intend to report them AND their employee to the ICO - jumped up little twots:mad:

I think perhaps you could make a complaint to their Head Office ie making what is called a grievance against the member of staff. In such difficult a time for you they humiliated you in front of other people rather than offering you privacy ie an interview room, to deal with this issue.

There are some who come on these sites & ask that we be sympathetic to front line staff - "It's not their fault" they bleat - sorry utter nonsense they know full well that what they are doing is if not unlawful at least immoral -

To a point I agree with what you are saying, however, Banks look to try and influence/take over every aspect of your life. Even if bank staff post on internet forums, if they identify themselves, the bank will take action(yes I have examples and I'm not one of them). I used to say that you should be sympathetic but i am on the fence on that issue today. Many staff are simply scared of losing their jobs even though, I can say, the grass is greener on the other side. Having a job or not having a job---that is their choice. Unfortunately not many branch staff have the cajones to do anything.

 

Having listened & been a witness to some of their behaviour I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for bank staff who follow the party line & the more who lose their jobs the better I'll like it:lol:

 

Well, obviously I don't agree but I do understand totally what you mean with regards to the last point

[JGJ]

JonCris,

 

Re your post #943 I absolutely/totally agree with your comments re the ignorance and absurd arrogance of *ank staff and their management, they of all people should hang their heads in shame, never mind the overbearing ignorance and totally unsympathetic attitude towards their customers that they continue to display, after bringing this country almost to its financial knees and of course being bailed out by the very same people who they treat with the utmost dis-respect.

 

Arrogance or ignorance is no excuse except of course when the *anks try and defend themselves pre court, during court and after court when of course, they are mostly exempted from the correct procedures that their customers have to endure, alas that is another story.

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

 

:p

[greendollar]

Nationwide have also taken over £150 in charges over the last 6 weeks from my account and were going to charge a further £30 for going into an unauthorised overdraft, I went to my local branch and asked that the charges be repaid as it was benefits intended for our day to day living expenses.The manageress was quite helpful and said that she would put in a request to head office and they usually,as a one of gesture,payback the charges charges within 72 hours.Hoping to have the money in the account today.Interesting to see that the DWP can help as its because of a computor error on their part that I incurred these charges in the first place.

[Dipply75]

Would appreciate some guidance here

 

CCA'd RBS, they confirmed no loan agreement. Sent a default which was wrong....sent another which is still wrong (I have told them and challenged them on it) but today they are apparently defaulting me and closing all my accounts (even earlier than the wrong date) on the default.

 

Thing is my benefits are due to be paid in n Thurs and I cannot get them rtansferred to my parachute acc in time.

 

Can I stop them?

[InformedSearcher]

Would appreciate some guidance here

 

CCA'd RBS, they confirmed no loan agreement. Sent a default which was wrong....sent another which is still wrong (I have told them and challenged them on it) but today they are apparently defaulting me and closing all my accounts (even earlier than the wrong date) on the default.

 

Thing is my benefits are due to be paid in n Thurs and I cannot get them rtansferred to my parachute acc in time.

 

Can I stop them?

 

Go down to the local branch and ask/demand to see someone, like today! Explain the whole thing including taking with you all the documents. See what they say. When did they initially tell you the account would be closed? The other thing is that your 'benefits' would probably be accepted because closing an account does not close the 'payments in' section (as that happened to me years ago!). In reality there's nothing to stop the bank closing an account as they see fit but the arguent here is 'hardship' and whilst voluntary it would not be 'good press' to see any bank not listen to argument.

Michael