advice on magistrates court hearing for benefit fraud

[honeybee13]

Hello again. Well, that's a big relief. It could have been a lot worse, I guess you're thinking. Thank you for letting us know.

 

I hope you can move on with your life now and feel good about yourself again. But if you're able to stay around the forum and help a few people in the same position as you, that would be great too.

 

HB x

Edited November 29, 2011 by honeybee13

[Nystagmite]

That's wonderful to hear.

[ErikaPNP]

Oh, I am so pleased for you. And for me - I don't have to eat liver!

[unfairadvantage]

i think it worth noting regarding this situation that if you dont have any prior convictions for similar and you admit the overpayment has occurred whether your fault or not that the court will see that you have made arrangement to repay and despite your having an overpayment you are repaying and that is the main focus really getting teh overpayment repaid.

 

so for everyone who reads this story take heart in that although this is a formal procedure and you may get bound over or communitty service you wont go to prison- just remain calm and state your case to magistrates.i have seen many cases of this type of thing and i mean over a hundred.Every one is different in terms of how overpayment happened but it is worth noting for completeness that not every overpayment is prosecuted.Even if they are the balance of probabilities test needs to be satisfied and that is difficult.

 

The main thing to do is set up repayment plan at what you can afford ,start paying it off prior to court date ,explain to magistrates and to IUC (if indeed you do have one) how it occured and that you are sorry it happened .I have seen many cases where benefits have continued to be paid despite person telling dwp of change in circumstance.the dwp can be incompetent.The staff are overworked and make mistakes .I have had cases where people have advised them by phone and by letter and yet they have still continued to pay out benefits!

 

 

for anyone reading these threads for advice on this ,do not worry.admit the overpayment has happened and show you are repaying it with agreement of dwp.

 

it is not true to say that cases end up in court every time as i have also had hundreds of cases where dwp after IUC have issued a fine after interview and a formal caution and that has been it.In essence there is no set way for dealing with every case and if you have deliberately defrauded you must admit guilt at first instance and set up repayment plan asap

if you have deliberately defrauded and by that i mean making up names of family members you are caring for or working whilst on jsa then expect to be prosecuted as this is deliberate fraud.If the situation is one of simple overpayment for example if you have advised Carers allowance of change in circumstances and they have kept paying you then it is not you who is wholly at fault and despite overpayment there is no intent to defraud, and as such it would be more of a formal caution issued along with acceptance of overpayment having taken place with repayment plan in place.

 

this is complicated area but i thought i would share my practical experience to alay fears and stress that some readers may have .

[hollowman]

a Q i have is if you have to pay back an overpayment to the dwp ,what about the HB and CT benefit . do the dwp automatically inform them also ?

[antone]

a Q i have is if you have to pay back an overpayment to the dwp ,what about the HB and CT benefit . do the dwp automatically inform them also ?

 

The various departments can share information, yes. I don't know to what extent they actually do, but they're certainly allowed to in various circumstances - these include the prevention and detection of fraud. Do bear in mind, though, that even if you've been overpaid a DWP benefit, that doesn't necessarily mean you've also been overpaid HB/CTB.

[sinkinghelp]

misssparkle

 

If its not too personal what were the circumstances about being refused legal aid for the court appearance please ? Sorry to ask but I have this coming up I believe and I could not get legal aid for a solicitor to sit in with me on the interview under caution so it may be that I cant get legal aid for my court possible appearance if things continue going as badly as they are

 

regards

 

 

sinkinghelp

[unfairadvantage]

please contact your local cab they normally will have staff that can attend these with you

 

i think even if you have to pay a solicitor it is really worth paying

[jadeybags]

misssparkle

 

If its not too personal what were the circumstances about being refused legal aid for the court appearance please ? Sorry to ask but I have this coming up I believe and I could not get legal aid for a solicitor to sit in with me on the interview under caution so it may be that I cant get legal aid for my court possible appearance if things continue going as badly as they are

 

regards

 

 

sinkinghelp

 

99% sure that legal aid doesn't cover IUC's but that doesn't mean you won't get legal aid for court.

http://www.legalservices.gov.uk/civil/guidance/eligibility_calculator.asp

[unfairadvantage]

you will have access to a duty solicitor in court and you can get at least 1 free sesion with a qualified solicitor

if you are a member of a union or you have legal insurance you can call for a consultation which is free also

 

i would do both add legal protection on your car policy/home insurance then call for advice

 

then go to law society web check out welfare lawyers in your area all of hich will have an initial meeting with you free

 

also contact cab as sometimes they will come with you and or represent you at court and at iuc's

 

as it is an interview under caution of course you can say nothing.it may infer your guilt they will say before hand that "you do not have to say anything etc etc ..."this is what you are read out before meeting as it is an interview under caution same as if you were in police station

 

be honest and give all information requested regarding what you are asked do not elaborate past what you are asked unless you are asked

 

not being dubious here but answer questions you are asked not ones you are not.

Edited January 4, 2012 by unfairadvantage
spell mistakes

[citizenB]

Do check your home insurance. Sometimes legal insurance is available.

[jadeybags]

you will have access to a duty solicitor in court and you can get at least 1 free sesion with a qualified solicitor

if you are a member of a union or you have legal insurance you can call for a consultation which is free also

 

i would do both add legal protection on your car policy/home insurance then call for advice

 

then go to law society web check out welfare lawyers in your area all of hich will have an initial meeting with you free

 

also contact cab as sometimes they will come with you and or represent you at court and at iuc's

 

as it is an interview under caution of course you can say nothing.it may infer your guilt they will say before hand that "you do not have to say anything etc etc ..."this is what you are read out before meeting as it is an interview under caution same as if you were in police station

 

be honest and give all information requested regarding what you are asked do not elaborate past what you are asked unless you are asked

 

not being dubious here but answer questions you are asked not ones you are not.

 

Totally agree. For chatter boxes like myself, things like that are not easy, but you're spot on there.

[sinkinghelp]

Hi there

 

Thanks for that...if you go to my posting of DWP interview under caution I did fully explore someone coming with me to the Interview Under Caution but unless I paid for a solicitor then I was left with no one. I did attend on my own and it was horrendeous

 

regards

 

sinkinghelp

[unfairadvantage]

fact is if you tell the truth you cannot go wrong

 

in the iuc did you get option to admit overpayment and you would get a fine or caution?

 

fact is even if it does go to court set up repayment plan make your first payment before court date if that happens -remember not every overpayment is prosecuted,as per advice above,admit over payment,set up plan,make payment,apologise for being overpaid and all will be well

 

worst case mag court bound over or caution with unpaid work,most cases i have been involved with get dealt with out of court settled by dwp and accused with caution thats it

 

admit overpayment but mitigate that you did not intend to be overpaid and you are sorry if you have been and as overpaid you have made arrangement and have made payment to start off-as per recent example above you will be ok-it is not nice but it is not life threatening and you will get through it trust me

[sinkinghelp]

Hello there

 

Thank you for the reply. The interview under caution was aggresive from start to finish. I was not at any point asked to consider a repayment or otherwise.

 

After the interview the DWP investigator suggested that it would be a court matter and then said no more.

 

No discussion about how much had been estimated as an over payment happened during the line of questioning by the DWP they were concentrating on getting me to admit that I had committed fraud which I totaly refused to do.

 

thanks again

 

sinkinghelp

[unfairadvantage]

good for you in standing your ground

 

the burden of proof for criminal courts is much much higher than civil ones and it is a high level of probability that they have to prove that you intended to defruad

 

if you did not set out to defraud then yes say so

 

just because you have had an overpayment and just because you have had a iuc does not mean that a court casde will happen

 

make a point of getting the overpayment figure from the dwp-ask them to verify this figure

do not admit you have defruaded deliberately -unless you have of course

 

appeal the overpaymnt figure all the way

 

the person you saw has to direct their paperwork to stirling office of dwp

they make a decision which of course you can appeal

 

it does not matter that you have had an iuc it does not automatically mean mag court date and remember even if it does it means onlt commuinty service and wrap on nuckles

 

its not life threattening you will get through this stay strong dont admit guilt when you are not guilty and let me kno how you get on

Edited January 10, 2012 by ErikaPNP
pm sent