I received a "parking charge notice" whilst parked on 'Private' land.

[Bhuna76]

Not sure if I'm in exactly the right place but here is my Question. I received a "penalty charge notice" whilst parked on 'Private' land.Do I have to pay as, to my knowledge, the penalty is a 'Penalty for breach of contract' and is therefore unlawful. Also, in the 'Bill of Rights act 1689 Section 2-Clause 12, it states:- "That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons BEFORE Conviction are illegall and void." As I have not been convicted of any offence relating to the matter, Does the Bill of Rights render this penalty Illegal?

[Bhuna76]

I received a "penalty charge notice" from a company called "PARKFORCE" whilst parked on 'Private' land. I keep reading that the penalty is a 'Penalty for breach of contract' and is therefore unlawful. Also, in the 'Bill of Rights act 1689 Section 2-Clause 12, it states:- "That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons BEFORE Conviction, are illegall and void." As I have not been convicted of any offence relating to the matter, Does the Bill of Rights render this penalty Illegal?

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Bhuna76.

 

I've merged your posts and started a new thread.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome. This sounds odd, even for a private parking company. Have you breached a contract and are you prepared to tell us who the land belongs to please?

 

I expect the guys will be along later with either answers or more questions.

 

My best, HB

[Al27]

You're correct that the sum amounts to a contractual penalty and so it unenforceable unless it reflects actual loss incurred. Check out Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd (1915) rather than your bill of rights.

 

Simply ignore them and their threatening junkmail.

[Jamberson]

It's a nonsense. Don't even worry about Bill of Rights. You don't have to pay, and they can't force you to.

 

You are right in that they claim contractual law as the basis of these charges, but there's no provision, even if they were to sue you, to make you pay a penalty of this nature. So ignore them. (Expect more letters though!)

[dx100uk]

utter rubbish!

 

oh and its not a penalty charge notice either!!

 

dx

[Jamberson]

Hang on - I've just had a thought.

 

Can you confirm what it says at the top - does it say specifically "Penalty Charge Notice" - or just something similar, like "Parking Charge Notice"?

 

If it does say "Penalty Charge Notice", who does it say issued it?

[dx100uk]

if it does they're in trouble if its a PPC ticket!

 

dx

[Bhuna76]

Hi Guys. I just looked at the ticket and it actually says 'Parking Charge Notice.(my bad). The land on while the ticket was issued is operated by PARKFORCE and the property used to be that of Nottingham Radio. Its A5 size and has the 'Official looking' red and white Batten-berg pattern around the edge. It has a Black and white photo of my car(printed using a PDA) which contains the following text:-"This is a parking charge notice 28/2/11_10:17 (registration number) (description of car) NO PAY&DISPLAY TICKET, PCN 127*-00****-**" with the picture underneath the text. Then there is the box with the 'Threatening' statement that if you don't pay £60 within 14 days charge will increase to £85 and they will obtain my details from the DVLA! (Data protection Act????) And finally they will resort to their Civil Enforcement Agent for collection incurring further administration and 'Legal' fees that I MAY be liable for. Then a section for me to fill in my details and payment method. Finally, on the back it states that should I appeal and win, they will refund me in full. Thanks for any help on this matter.

[DBC]

Just keep ignoring. That letter is yet another example of the hollow and meaningless threats dished out by private parking companies. As for the photograph , all it shows is a picture of the car, not of the driver. As for the Data Protection Act, I'm afraid that when your sign your car documents you give permission to the DVLA to pass on information to a third party. For "civil enforcement agency" read "debt-collector" who is a private citizen with no special powers.

Edited March 2, 2011 by DBC

[patdavies]

Whilst not changing the advice given, I would point out - for the sake of correctness only - that the Bill of Rights 1689 is not in the least relevant since it governs the relationship between the State and the individual and not private companies

[crem]

Finally, on the back it states that should I appeal and win, they will refund me in full.

 

The hell they will! :lol:

[diskmandave]

The hell they will! :lol:

 

Is crem doubting a PPC's integrity and honesty ?

[Al27]

Parkfarce!

[Bhuna76]

Also, not sure if this is relevant, I had a VERBAL agreement with the attendant who was patrolling the car park (my girlfriend knew him) BEFORE the pay and display machine was installed. He disappeared several weeks ago and no one has seen him since. Does the verbal agreement make any difference. (I'm still gonna ignore the letters)

[bondy lad]

dont even give it another thought,,you will however no doubt recieve the usual,,threat-o-gramms from this dross company,, threatening everything from ,,debt collectors,,solicitors,,firing squad et al,,,ignore, do not contact ,nothing can/will be done to you,, ur not a criminal,, u have not committed an offence punishable by hanging?????,,oh,,ignore,ignore,,,,relax.

[lamma]

Its worth the paper its written on.

[Bhuna76]

Just received the first of many letters from park force. It WAS asking for the drivers details at the time of the parking contravention. The original ticket didn't state the date of issue or the date of contravention!! Does this matter? Advice thanked in advance.

[Bhuna76]

DBC....When I signed my DVLA documents, did I give the DVLA permission to SELL my information for £2.50, as it has been stated that this is how much they charge? Are they allowed to even do that, to make a profit?

[Jamberson]

Yes, DVLA can do it.

 

As for your penalty invoice - it makes no difference what's written on it. Ignore it.

[Bhuna76]

Just checked and found that parkforce are in breach of the BPA codes of practice AND the regulations for the AOS(approved operators scheme). If this is true, does it mean that they have unlawfully obtained my details from the DVLA??

[DBC]

Just checked and found that parkforce are in breach of the BPA codes of practice AND the regulations for the AOS(approved operators scheme). If this is true, does it mean that they have unlawfully obtained my details from the DVLA??

 

Report them to the BPA. I did this over Town and City Parking's use of the word "penalty" and they have been "disciplined" (whatever that means) by the BPA. The more people complain the better.

[Bhuna76]

Already reported them. Even quoted the sections of the codes of practice that they are in breach of. Just a waiting game now. Got the first Debt collectors letter this morning. Debt recovery plus LTD. And THEY are a member of the BPA also. And they are regulated by the CSA(Credit services association) I hope they turn up on the door step unannounced, that would be a breach of CSA regulations. Haven't contacted, haven't replied and I admit to NOTHING! I love this. Bring it on!!

[Lynnzer]

You could write back to them threatening legal action for harassment or for demanding money with menaces. At no time should you even mention who the driver of the car was. Wihout such information they are completely unable to pursue any court action. The registered keepre need not necessarily be the driver. Only a local authority is entitled to go after the RK and slap him with a charge regardless of whoo the driver was.

You're probably best off completely ignoring all mail though as they will definitely go away once they've shot their last arrow at you.