Rae's ESA...

[IdaInFife]

thanks for coming back with that Rae

[joeblogs]

Hi Kelcou, I am so sorry to read about your disappointing news. You are such an inspiration to everyone on this site, always there with friendly advice and support and although I cannot advise you how to move forward, I want you to know you are in my thoughts.

[loan_ranger]

Hi Rae and thanks for doing me the honour making me one of your friends.

It is not only just my opinion, but it seems that Atosh are vindictively sending new ESA50's to everyone who successfully passes the appeal and/or tribunal - it smacks of a "war of attrition" being waged against the disabled and ill - furthermore this is a waste of financial resources (tax dollars) by a private contractor who apparently has been taking liberties above their remit under the social security and welfare legislation. The truth of the matter is that it is in fact the Government and DWP who have frame-worked the legislation in such a way that this becomes an obligation on Atosh - the harrassment is inbuilt and Atosh are just a complicit (self-intrested) instrument of torture IMHO.

The tribunal takes so long that re-assessment is already imminent when the tribunal has been convened - and thus they are able to perpetuate the suffering inflicted against us. I think that this could be grounds for judicial action under the UN conventions protecting the rights of the ill and disabled - the previous and current governments are on thin ice already because the convention states that deprivation of income for these groups is inhumane (possibly prejudice when sanctions are being applied).

 

They are causing untold harm to the most vulnerable and I've had another nervous breakdown thanks to their persecution and (media abetted) vilification.

 

Kindest regards and all my wishes go with you in your time of need, Paul.

[loan_ranger]

At least you're back in the nil points group \o/

 

In Wizard of Oz speak;

 

The Tin Man was imagined with a magical pace maker (seen by a DM on Tomorrows World) so he was fit for work.

The cowardly Lion took a taxi to the WCA. The driver of the taxi didn't exist in ATOSs' eyes so he got there by himself & therefore was judged fit for work.

Whilst the scarecrows fondness of painting due to autism saw him pushed by the fairy job mother into a life of burger flipping; well he could oil paint with a trowel (if you've ever watched paint with Nancy) so the flipper/splice toilet role combination was no different.

 

Just click those red heals 3 times;

 

1st for scrounger

2nd for benefit cheat

& 3rd for work shy job seeker.

 

At least you'll have Toto ;-)

 

No sorry he was put down under the dangerous dogs act for worrying electric sheep in the DWPs' computer

I love your post. Sort of reminds me of the coalition, no brains, no heart and no courage. Grayling, IDS and Cameron in exchangeable roles.

Thanks for the satirically comic relief.

Best regards, Paul.

[RaeUK]

Hello strangers!

 

Hopefully the super dooper new site has settled down enough for my poor and enfeabled brain to comprehende ...

 

Just looking for a simple clarification regarding the use of the ESA113. This is, I understand, the form sent to GPs for further medical information in support of a claim.

 

Is it:

 

a) routinely sent out in response to each and every claim for ESA

 

or

 

b) sent to a small percentage of claimants GPs where there may be a strong case for no ATOSH assessment.

 

or

 

c) some other reason????

 

Many thanks.

Rae

 

[sorry, there is no prize available for taking part in this quiz].

[IdaInFife]

Hi Rae,

 

 

nice to see you around

 

and the answer is : I don't know

[jabba jones]

The IB version (IB113) used to be sent with all serious non exempt illnesses & mental health cases. There is a big list of illnesses in the benefit guidance which staff use. It was also sent when the Sema doctor requested it at the end of the previous medical.

 

I'm not sure how it works with ESA, but I presume it will be similar.

[RaeUK]

Thank you for your input Jabba, appreciated. Whilst I don't feel it's the case, I'm being told by the DWP that the ESA113 goes out to every claimant ...

[Kicking-Us-Off-ESA]

Thank you for your input Jabba, appreciated. Whilst I don't feel it's the case, I'm being told by the DWP that the ESA113 goes out to every claimant ...

 

I gree with you there i rekon they don't bother to send to you docs either.

it's a puzzle in itself if they do or don't!

[speedfreek]

Hello stranger

 

this seams to be the shizzle

 

http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20090702123014398225

a GP may be asked by DWP to complete a factual ESA113 report on a patient

form can be completed from medical records

no need to carry out a separate examination of patient

DWP will only ask for an ESA113 to be completed if:

could result in patient's entitlement to additional financial support being confirmed on paper evidence, without need for a face to face assessment, or

if, in the case of reassessing a patient's continuing entitlement to Employment and Support Allowance, it could result in ongoing entitlement being confirmed without need for another face to face assessment.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/medical-reports-completion.pdf

Most information requests regarding Incapacity Benefit (IB) and Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) claims will be on the IB/ESA113.

We ask you to complete this form if we think that the patient may have a severe health condition or disability but do not have enough information to be sure.

The forms should be returned within 5 working days from the date of receipt.

 

So Jabba is correct; everybody who fits into this niche will have the request to fill out an ESA113 sent out, whilst everybody else will not.

 

It looks like a step up from nil points

[RaeUK]

Thanks [and 'hi' again] speedfreek.

I've received a couple of phonecalls from the DWP which has resolved the issue. Although I remain a little cynical about whether additional information is always used or often 'misplaced'.

Looking on the 'theyworkforyou' website through an ESA113 search, it seems that a rough average of 8% of ESA claimants GPs will get that form.

Less than a slight shuffle from null points ...

Best wishes

Rae

[Gemstar]

Hello

 

I did a little researching a while ago relating to this particular subject of the issuing of an ESA113 (IB113).

 

I first of all believed that all claims have this sent out. Then I find out from the DWP that they used to do it under IB claims, but since ATOS came on the scene, the responsibility is theirs. The DWP can request it to be sent but normally it is left for ATOS to decide who should and shouldn't have one.

 

Then I looked at the ESA65. This has 4 boxes to fill in relating to what evidence has been used by the Decision Maker to arrive at the decision.

Boxes 1 & 2 relate to the ESA50 and the ATOS medical report.

Box 3 relates to medical evidence from the GP, and Box 4 for evidence/documents submitted by the claimant in support of their claim.

 

Boxes 1 & 2 are clear and hold no problems.

 

Box 3 is for the ESA113, which if ATOS deem it proper not to issue one that particular box will always remain empty. They appear to control what evidence should be obtained (Judge & Jury???)

 

That takes me to Box 4. The DWP were very clear to me when I spoke with them that 'most' people submit evidence which will be used.

When I challenged that by simply asking which document relating to the ESA claim actually asks or even suggests that that is the correct way forward, they ummmed and ahhhhed and said they would ring me back.

This they did 2 days later and it was now a 'Case Manager'. I asked him the same question if he could point me in the right direction to that elusive instruction/request/suggestion.

He admitted that there was no mention anywhere on any document that even remotely suggested that you should send anything in. But and he reiterated a big BUT, nearly everyone does voluntarily.

 

OK, I then asked him to whom the evidence should be submitted - Oh that would be ATOS - send it with the ESA50 he told me. I agreed that that made sense as at that stage no claimant would know which DWP office to send it to as they had received no letter normally from the DWP relating to their claim.

 

I then pointed out that ATOS specifically said in their covering letter that came with the ESA50 that NO document/letter or report should be returned to their office with the ESA50.

To that he was surprised. So I read the letter out and he told me that that was ATOS saying that they did not deal with any additional evidence, just the Medical. He went on to say that the additional evidence should go to the DWP.?????

From then on he ummmmed and ahhhhed. I pushed it and the upshot is that in reality the DWP or ATOS don't want any additional evidence to be sent in by the claimant until after and only if they decide that the ESA claim fails.

So why have Box 4? Errr well that was on there because that is what was intended when ESA became law, but the DWP decided that they would not be able to work under the pressure if everyone sent in supporting documentation with every claim.

 

UMMM - but you said nearly everyone does voluntarily anyhow. Yes he said they do, but we do not want to advertise the fact. Anyhow you can always send it in with the request for a reconsideration!!

 

And that was it.

 

Eventually I got to the bottom of it.

 

I'm not saying that there is a conspiracy to keep the public in the dark, but there is ample evidence to suggest that the DWP/ATOS would prefer not to receive any supporting evidence at all. In which case and it is the case normally, that the DM only wants to use the ATOS report & ESA50 for speed of operation - or is there really something bigger at work - a way to reduce the number of successful claims in the first instance???

 

Politics and working practices go hand in hand in this one I think!!!

 

Gemma

[RaeUK]

Thanks for that, Gemma, very interesting reading. The DWPs answer to me was that it was a clerical error that box 3 had not been ticked ... mmm ...

 

Best wishes

Rae

[45002]

If you want a read

 

ESA113

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/ib-esa113-interactive.pdf

 

IB113

http://www.disabilityalliance.org/wfhra.pdf

 

ESA50

http://Http://www.disabilityalliance.org/esa50.pdf

 

IB50

 

http://www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/pdf/WelfareRights/IB50.pdf

[45002]

Best way to open the above files is,Right click on the links and "save as"or "save link as" to your desktop :wink:

[Kicking-Us-Off-ESA]

Cheers for those links

[RaeUK]

Shortly after lunch on wednesday I will, for the second time, be sauntering into an ESA Tribunal. Hopefully they'll get it right this time as I don't particularly want this farce to become a trilogy! Not holding my breath (not advisable with severe COPD ) as my medical evidence is pretty much the same as last year. Living in an area where I cannot access pulmonary rehabilitation sort of limits you a bit. I'll be spending the next 24hrs reviewing my paperwork. There shouldn't be, but if there are any queries you know I'll holler...

Rae.

[Nystagmite]

Good luck!

[stalin's dead]

good luck

[RaeUK]

Thanks! Just noticed that the Tribunal's actually on Thursday not Wednesday!

Rae

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Best of luck from me too xx

[anime]

good luck hope it work out I keep my fingures cross for both of us

[ee-bee]

wishing you all the luck in the world,you deserve to win,x

[RaeUK]

Thanks, ee-bee, nice to see you're still around.

Anime, fingers crossed for both of us as well.

Watching, I'm glad you are.

 

I'll be keeping you all posted. Surely, being on the assessment rate since November 2009, has to come to a stop eventually ...

Rae

[speedfreek]

Sock it to em Gal!

 

We're all rooting for you