Asset Recoveries UK hassling re mortgage shortfall from 2000- ** Statute barred ** :)

[irate-wife]

Hi,

could anyone please help me as I am in such a mess

 

constantly being harrassed by a company called Asset Recoveries UK Limited with regards to a mortgage shortfall from the year 2000.

 

my house was repossessed in 1999 due to circumstances beyond my control and sold in may 2000.

 

I have never recieved any letters or has anyone tried to contact me with regards to this up until 21st january 2010

 

a letter appeared on my doorstep from this company stating I owed £17.500.

I was shocked at this

how come I have heard nothing

 

out of the blue it came

 

followed by the constant phone calls threatening me they were going to send someone to my house and if they got no satisfaction they would ask neighbours questions regarding myself.

 

I was mortified at this.

I rang the National Debt Helpline and they advised me to write a letter asking for a breakdown of how they got to this amount

 

received a letter this morning stating that I am just copying letters off internet and putting off wont help my case when it goes to court

 

I have until 15th february to make some form of acknowledgement or they will send someone to my home.

I am at my wits end and dont know what to do.

Please can anyone help.

[spamheed]

How or where you get your letters is entirely immaterial and is none of their business.

It is the contents of the letter that they should be dealing with.

 

 

With mortgage shortfalls the statute barred rule is 12 years instead of the usual 6 and since it is now only 10 years without acknowledgement or payment, they are trying to get you to acknowledge the debt and restart the SB clock.

 

They are not allowed to canvas your neighbours and any attempt to do so should be brought to the attention of trading standards and OFT.

 

 

note that these threats are made during telephone calls,

this is so that you would not be able to substantiate your complaints

 

Companies like these use threats like this to scare you into entering an agreement, or making a payment out of fear.

This is why we always recommend that you never telephone them, nor accept a call from them,

simply refuse to go through their security process and insist that they "put it in writing"

Acknowledge nothing until you are in full possession of all of the facts.

 

ie

who you owe,

how do you know that these "people" have any right to collect against this debt

- you would need to see the transfer documentation allowing them to do so

 

Is the amount they are claiming correct?

have any charges been added to the account,

how much and by whome? are they lawful?

 

You do need to become a little more indignant or angry about this and try take a more aggressive stance in the way you deal with these "people", try not to let them retain control.

 

You only owe money if they can prove you do and if they have the paperwork to back up their claims, without this they could be anyone.

 

At this stage,

anyone who visits your property on this matter would have no more rights than the ice cream man and should be sent away with a flea in their ear

 

Stick to your guns and send another letter,

again asking for a breakdown of the amount demanded and complete proof of ownership/transfer,

 

 

make sure you put

"I Do Not Acknowledge Any Debt To Your Company or Anyone You Claim To Represent" at the top of the letter,

that way there can be no confusion about where they stand.

Edited February 3, 2010 by spamheed

[irate-wife]

hi spamheed thanks for that,

i am also in Gods Country Northumberland too.

 

 

I sent letter asking for the information you told me to get on 30th january and response from them was that i am at liberty to copy and paste and send letters off internet and i should consider whether it is in my interest to do so.

 

 

They say it is always open to issue proceedings against me,

and that a court is likely to be unimpressed by my refusal to enter into any kind of dialogue concerning my debt and websites dont tell me I have to pay my debts.

They go on to say that they have shown considerable patience in dealing with this.

 

 

How can they show considerable patience when they just contacted me on 21st january this year.

the letter states the courts would not approve of debt advice received from websites.

 

 

say that the shortfall balance is clearly shown on the Mortgage Transaction History Report which they state they sent on 29th january.

I have not recieved this.

 

 

states at the end that I have 7 days with my realistic proposals together with the income, expenditure & proposal form duly completed and if they do not hear from me in that time they will be left with no other alternative but to send someone to call at my home in order to obtain a full review of my financial circumstances and my proposals for repayment.

[Craftygirl42]

I would say that the majority of that letter is just threats.

Dont worry about it.

I always read on here, that the onus is on the creditor to prove the debt.

 

I hope someone will come along with a suggested letter to send them in return

[spamheed]

hi spamheed thanks for that, i am also in Gods Country Northumberland too.

 

I sent letter asking for the information you told me to get on 30th january and response from them was that i am at liberty to copy and paste and send letters off internet and i should consider wheter it is in my interest to do so. As long as the letters are relevant and the advice surrounding the letters is sound then this is fine, by the sounds of it they are trying to make you doubt what you have been advised

 

They say it is always open to issue proceedings against me, and that a court is likely to be unimpressed by my refusal to enter into any kind of dialogue concerning my debt and websites dont tell me I have to pay my debts. The court is likely to look equally unimpressed by their failure to provide you with details of the debts they say that you owe. You have a legal right to know to whom you owe monies and how the total of that debt has been reached. Also it looks likr they are continually trying to make you believe that they know better than you. There are plenty of examples on here, where we little people know a "little bit" as well

 

They go on to say that they have shown considerable patience in dealing with this. This seems to be a standard line in the debt collection industry, they will tell you that after numerous letters, telephone calls and how they have really tried to get in touch and it is all down to your failure to reply. When the reality is, they have probably sent one letter and often none at all How can they show considerable patience when they just contacted me on 21st january this year.

 

then the letter states the courts would not approve of debt advice recieved from websites. Utter Rubbish and twaddle, what websites are they referring to? Insolvency service? Direct.Gov? these are websites supported by the government to assist with consumers, so is CAG, it just isn't supported by the Government.

 

They also go on to say that the shortfall balance is clearly shown on the Mortgage Transaction History Report which they state they sent on 29th january. If they have sent this, then they will be able to prove that they have done so I have not recieved this. The letter states at the end that I have 7 days with my realistic proposals together with the income, expenditure & proposal form duly completed They have absolutely no right to request/demand, or expect this information, only a judge can make such a demand.

 

and if they do not hear from me in that time they will be left with no other alternative but to send someone to call at my home in order to obtain a full review of my financial circumstances How they going to do that? by looking through the letterbox? and my proposals for repayment These wouldn't be entered into until the specifics of the debt has been proven .

 

Irate Wife, you never know, we could be neighbours . I live up near the coast

 

They are clearly trying to get you to acknowledge the debt, which would restart the SB clock. so do not write anything to them without ensuring that you do not accept ownership of the debt, nor that you owe them anything. The use of words like "Alleged" and "claimed" are normal and acceptable

 

Contrary to what these "people" have told you.

 

You have the right to seek advice from whatever quarter you see fit, without any input from them. Whether this is CAB, a government agency, a solicitor, or whatever, thay have no right at all to state that the requests you have made are in some way deficient because of the source. Neither do their statements of what the courts do and don't like have any credance at all

 

I have never heard a judge state that the internet forums have a negative effect, other than empowering individuals and spreading information to people who otherwise would be at the mercy of such unscrupulous practices. The courts neither measure nor judge the quality of the information received, only on the case documentation laid before them.

 

Don't let yourself become embroiled in technical arguments, they are simply distractions designed to knock your confidence and make you more susceptible to doing what they want. The facts as I see it are as follows:

 

This company has not provided you with any evidence that they have a right to collect this debt

 

No supporting information has been offered to show how this balance has been arrived at

 

The debt is now in the vicinity of 10 years without acknowledgement nor payment being made against it.

 

Whether you follow the advice offered on this forum, or seek advice from any other resource. One thing is true, this company needs to be made to prove that they have a legal right to collect this debt and that the amount they are claiming is correct and not inflated by unlawful charges.

 

 

The standard rules of engagement are as follows:

• Refuse telephone conversations (don't make them and don't accept them) Tell them to put it in writing
  
• Retain copies of all correspondence, proof of posting and delivery should also be retained.
  
• Doorstep visitors can be repelled by simply telling them to go away and put it in writing, if they refuse, call the police
  

Don't worry unduly about this, what you have at the moment metaphorically speaking, is a total stranger at the door demanding an amount of money which you do not recognise.

 

If they continue to refuse to supply you with information, you can contact trading styandards and the OFT in the first instance

[citizenB]

In a recent case in which I was the Claimant, the barrister for the opposition tried the "she has got all her stuff off the internet".. The Judge just said "so what, she is entitled to get advise wherever she wishes"

 

If you have any way of recording the nature of these calls then please do so.

If you can get evidence of them making outrageous statements that they will poll your neighbours for information, then they are in big trouble.

 

You should in fact report them to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

As advised, I would suggest the next time they telephone, refuse to go through security questions. In which case they should immediately hang up. Then just politely hang up on them.

 

Do not get involved in conversation on the phone, you are obviously stressed beyond belief and you are likely to say something that you may regret later.

 

If you are able to edit out any personal details on letters and get them posted up on the forum, we can help you respond to them.

[gh2008]

for info http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/pdf/11_mortgage_shortfalls.pdf

 

From 11 February 2000 the CML says anyone

whose property was repossessed and sold and

who has not been contacted by their lender

within six years from the date of sale will not

be asked to pay the shortfall.

[irate-wife]

That one is the first letter i recieved

 

deleted letter in case i am recognised, still have it on pc

 

thats second one

 

deleted letter, still have it on pc

 

Thats the one i recieved today.

[Philip23]

They are quite scary letters. But take the advice of the more senior members of CAG - they know what they're talking about.

[irate-wife]

thanks philip23, I dont know who the more senior members are though.

[Philip23]

thanks philip23, I dont know who the more senior members are though.

 

 

The Caggers who have already responded. They have lots of green squares below their names. Just follow their advice, and you'll by ok I'm sure.

[Craftygirl42]

The link GH posted was interesting. I understand from the link that if the mortgage company did get money from the Indemnity guarantee then they would have to offset it against the debt, but the insurance company could claim it from you which doesnt appear to have happened up till now.

 

Make sure you head any letters in a bold font 'I do not acknowledge any debt' or something like that.

 

thanks philip23, I dont know who the more senior members are though.

 

Spamhead and Citizen B are both really helpful, Citizen B has helped me hugely and I have nothing but praise for her advice

 

If you havent already, make sure you read the link posted by GH.

[firstship]

irate-wife........

...Hi,been in a similar situation and still dealing with Asset Recoveries(not paying anything).

 

 

The very first thing you need to do is ask in writing (NO PHONE CONVERSATIONS) that you want a letter from Phoenix Recoveries confirming that Asset Recoveries have the authority to act on behalf of Phoenix Recoveries as you have no intention of dealing with a company you have never heard of.

 

 

Do not fill in an Income and Expenditure form only a court can order that you do this.

 

 

You will probably come under pressure from Asset as they are Im sure aware that after 12 years of no money being paid by you a Mortgage becomes Statute Barred.

and from your thread 10 years have elapsed

 

 

.Reading earlier parts of this thread you are getting good advice but first things first no letter from Phoenix,

Asset cant go anywhere,

should you get a letter from Phoenix in Luxembourg

WE ALL WANT TO SEE IT......IT WILL BE A FIRST......

.....all the best..Firstship

[citizenB]

thank you CG

 

Iratewife.. it looks to me in the first letter that they were phishing and sadly in your lack of knowledge contacted them:(

 

However, the information posted by gh in post 9 could be pretty useful. It might be a good idea to contact National Debtline and ask them for more information regarding that 6 year rule.

 

I am going to bring this thread to the attention of the site team and see if they have any more advice to give.

[irate-wife]

Hi citizenb, they did send the letter but the day before it arrived i had a phone call asking for me, my son who is only 10yrs old answered the phone gave it to me, I wasnt aware that it was for a debt. I confirmed my date of birth and that was all.

[spamheed]

None of this is particularly surprising,

in the face of a mortgage shortfall all of the little creepy crawlies come running out of the woodwork.

 

As mentioned earlier,

the Statute barring rule for secured lending is 12 years,

which would explain the timing of their contract.

They confirm this in their letter (post#12 as being June 2011)

 

They also make reference in their letter (post#12) to a deed of assignment dated 6th August 2007,

this is effectively the document that provides them with the right to collect the debt,

 

 

there are rules surrounding the service of a DOA,

one of which would be that the debtor should be notified in advance and the Deed should be created by the hand of the creditor.

 

There are many examples on here of DCA "creating" a Deed or Notice of Assignment and sending them out "on behalf of" the original creditor,

this is not allowed,

it must be created by the original creditor and you should be notified prior to the transfer being completed.

 

You need a clear paper trail showing a clear path from the moment your property was repossessed to date,

showing all assignments,

charges and notices beginning with the deed of assignment

in which the mortgage company transferred their initial rights to the debt.

 

 

Without this/these documents they have no more rights to your money than the Ice cream man

 

My advice still stands, make them prove the status of themselves and the debt

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, I can understand why these letters have got you worried - but that's their intention. They will know very well that if they took you to court the judge would be unimpressed that 10 years and more have gone by before you were contacted about the debt.

 

My advice would be not to reply to them any further, and definitely do not speak to them on the phone unless you are able to record the conversation (making sure you do not admit the debt or offer any payment) - but remember these people are trained to be intimidating and will no doubt be able to wind you up on the phone, so it's best not to speak to them at all.

 

If they do proceed with a court claim (unlikely), we will be able to help you defend it.

 

If you have a read around the forums, you will see from others how these debt collection firms intimidate and threaten with their letters and phonecalls, and you should take comfort in the fact that you are not alone with this. Many people have been - or are - in the same position fighting these companies, and winning! They don't like it and that is why they try to undermine the advice given on CAG and other similar websites.

 

Hang on in there, and see what happens next.

 

Ell-enn

[IdaInFife]

its not 12 years for all -

 

6 years if no contact should not be asked to pay it back as per the CML

 

also they ther should be no interest on it

 

I think a sar is neeeded

[ODC]

I note with interest that they say you have had notice of assignment of the debt in accordance with S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. If this is true it should have been served on you in person or by registered post. Was this the case.

 

As a matter of interest why are they going after

you for the whole of the shortfall and not the person you shared the mortgage with

[IdaInFife]

Arrears and repossessions FAQs

 

FAQs

[IdaInFife]

was it the mortgage trust plc?

 

if so they are members of the CML

[irate-wife]

so would you advise me not to respond to anything they send or should i write them a letter saying i do not acknowledge this debt

[spamheed]

If it is 6 years, then this needs to be clarified, I was certainly under the impression it was 12

 

Limitation Act 1980

 

The time limit for an action founded on simple contract is six years (s5).

 

The time limit for an action "upon a specialty" is 12 years (s8). A mortgage deed being under seal is a specialty (Aiken v Stewart Wrightson Members Agency Ltd [1995] 1 WLR 1281).

 

This is supported here:

 

Debt Factsheets - Liability for Debts and the Limitation Act

 

Also here:

National Money Helpline - The Limitation Act 1980

 

 

 

Just reread Ida's post and the link, this is a voluntary agreement within the CML, how binding is this going to be coz it kills any action by this lot stone dead

[IdaInFife]

if the lender has not made contact within 6 years of the sale date and is a member of the cml this applies:

 

How long after the repossession can lenders seek the recovery of the debt?

 

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a lender legally has 12 years to contact you to begin the process of seeking repayment of a shortfall debt; this period is usually 5 years in Scotland.

 

However, lenders are committed to fair and sympathetic treatment of people who have suffered repossession, and accept that individuals should not face long delays before being contacted to discuss repaying the shortfall. Most lenders will contact you fairly soon after possession to try to agree to a manageable arrangement for repaying all or some of the debt.

 

Lenders who are members of the Council of Mortgage Lenders voluntarily agreed from 11 February 2000 to begin all recovery action for a shortfall within six years of the sale of a repossessed property. If your property was taken into possession and sold more than six years ago, and you have not been contacted by your lender to recover any outstanding debt, you will not now be asked to pay the shortfall. In Scotland, lenders will begin recovery action within five years

 

 

spamheed:

 

I can put on a template that the op can send to them to state the above but do you think it would be bset to do a sar first so that the op would have proff no contact has been made?

 

Ida x

[irate-wife]

I already sent them a Subject Access Request and the response i got back was the third letter.