Casperlady and Howard Cohen in court next week for SJ hearing. - help?!

[casperlady]

Thanks Ghostdebt.

 

I actually didn't receive the notice of assignment until after I received the court papers. I'll have to have a look at that later, hoping I won't need the defence today so I'll have the chance to add to it.

 

Better get a move on, but had to pop on here before I left just in case!

[casperlady]

I somehow made it to work after that. That was quite simply horrible.

 

Firstly the solicitor asked to discuss the case before we went in, but I said no. The judge then told me off for that. He also asked me where my legal represantation was and why I had decided against my own solicitor. He told me that if I tried to defend the case that I would just get into very deep water and it would cost me thousands in legal fees.

 

I went into another room with the solicitor. I tried my defence with the default and the notice of assignment, but the solicitor argued back. I had in my mind what I have read on here many times, the judge won't order me to pay more than I can afford. Thousands of pounds worth of legal fees in defending, and then I could still lose? So I said we could try to come to some arangement.

 

Back into the court room. A bit of discussion with the judge and the solicitor about how much the total was. Me trying not to cry and failing. Courts provide free tissues. Bargain.

 

Result is, I'm ordered to pay the full amount plus costs within 28 days. Judge knows I can't do that, so he suggests I go bankrupt in the meantime.

 

Whatever I was expecting, it wasn't that. I am absolutely devastated. I've been working on my business for two years, harder than I've ever worked on anything. I've tried to apply for jobs in the past few months but nothing going. Now I'm going to lose it all.

 

Thank you so much for all the advice you gave me. If nothing else it kept me sane and I managed to make it to court this morning. I have the greatest respect for those of you who have managed to defend claims in court, unfortunately it didn't work for me.

[middenmess]

Hi Casper-I can't beleive what you have just been told in Court!!!

 

I will have to read through the whole thread again as I [all of us?] must have missed something.

 

Hopefully some experienced brains will be along with some sensible advice soon.

 

Chin up-the fat lady ain't singing yet!

[Pinky69]

OMG - I am so sorry. Talk about a biased judge!! Where did the thousands of pounds in legal fees come from?? I would have told him right back that it was my right to defend myself and that is what I was there to do. Cheeky B! And to order you to bankrupt yourself without giving you a chance to make a payment arrangement is not justice. Ask the court who you complain to about the judge and make a formal written complaint about both the proceedings and the judge. As it is I would now ask for a set aside of the judgement on the grounds you were not given a fair hearing at court.

[middenmess]

Pinky--good words--I'm just too gobsmacked to comment on that Judge and his inane utterings!

 

Sounds as if he had an early lunch appointment that he didn't want to miss!

Edited October 27, 2009 by middenmess
Incomplete post

[itsamomentintime]

casperlady

 

its easy for me to say this but please try not to worry at this time.

 

you had a judge who seems to know nothing about your rights, sounds like a stitch up to me.

 

'thousands of pounds in fees' and chastising you for not speaking to the solicitor - just unbelieveable

 

its fair to say that in the 100's of threads about going to court, i have never read anything like it

 

 

something to think about - site mods have been known to attend hearings with caggers, get this set aside and alert a mod to your needs

[casperlady]

Thank you all for the replies.

 

It appears that in court with a judge who is telling me off, I just go to pieces, which I did, this morning.

 

I did try, really I did, but it seems I got laughed away. I said I had a new defence in writing. I said that it wasn't complete (I wanted to add the part about the notice of assignment) and said that I understood that the hearing today was to assign the track. He just said that if it goes to trial and I defend it I'll have to pay about £5000 fees and I could still lose.

 

He did say that he could order for me to pay it monthly, and I said I would be only able to afford a token payment, so he then advised that I pay the full amount within 28 days. He said that he knows I won't be able to do that 'unless I win the premium bonds'.

 

The solicitor did say that I seemed to have a good knowlege of the law, having read my defence (this was when it had all finished) I said I had done alot of research. Which I did, with alot of help from you!

[citizenB]

 

 

I read other threads here and they seem full of technicalities and points of law, and I don't have any of that, I just filled in the form using this site, without understanding what the questions were really asking me.

 

Back to basics then. I go to court and say that I don't have an account with that number and ask for them to provide a signed credit agreement. Would that be a good start?

 

Thank you in advance to anyone who can help.

 

On another point, say that they can prove that I owe the debt. I offered all of my creditors £1 a month eighteen months ago. They all refused my offer and said they wanted all of the money. Now they take me to court just so a judge can order me to pay the £1 a month I originally offered? Seems ridiculous. My only income is housing benefit and tax credit, I lost my job (redundancy for one then ill health for the next) and I'm now self employed in a business that makes no profit.

 

Hmmmm, the CCA isnt really a CCA, its just what they would supply in response to a s78 request currently imo.

 

An online application should store your signature as a tickbox and in reality they should need to show the court the screenshots of both your application and the terms and conditions that you were shown when you took the card out.

 

What muddies the water somewhat is the timing of the application, as its post april 2007 the agreement gets watered down somewhat by the CCA2006 and the fact that even without an agreement the court can enforce if it feels just.

 

Areas to attack are the default notice and the notice of assignment and methods of postage of both imvho.

 

S.

 

Oh my word.. where did the Judge get £thousands of pounds from ?

 

It was my understanding that this was a CMC hearing, to work out what track etc.. I am not sure what the heck has happened.

 

I think as regards the agreement, you were always on a sticky wicket because of the date it was started. But the Notice of assignment and Default issues should have been good arguments.

 

I am really sorry that you have had such a rotten time. I wonder if the damage can be limited by applying to the court (hoping you get a different judge) to get some kind of payment plan in place.

 

Sheesh.

[the_shadow]

 

I am really sorry that you have had such a rotten time. I wonder if the damage can be limited by applying to the court (hoping you get a different judge) to get some kind of payment plan in place.

 

Sheesh.

 

Thats a really good thought CB, an application to vary the judgment might bring a more sympathetic judge to the fore.

 

Really sorry about the outcome Casperlady.

 

S.

[casperlady]

Citizen B that was my understanding too. The solicitor told me before we went in that she was going to try to get judgement today. The judge seemed to just go for judgement, a done deal it looked like.

 

Ok, I need some sort of a plan. I tried to go to the CAB after court but they're closed on Tuesdays, so I came to work instead!

 

The judge did make the point that I have 28 days in which to get advice and organise something as CL Finance can't do anything within those 28 days... although as it stands the full balance plus costs is payable then. Do you think I'd need to approach CL finance or the court for a payment plan?! Oh what a big mess!

[casperlady]

Sorry, just noticed that you suggested applying to the court for a payment plan. I think I might have to try that..

[casperlady]

So I take it by your responses that it wouldn't cost be £5k in legal fees to defend?!

[AndyOrch]

HI Casper

 

If Judgement as been granted fourthwith just download the N245 costs £30 and submit your redetermination.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[supasnooper]

Sorry to read of how it went for you today Casperlady...sounds like you got a poor DDJ.

 

Can we backtrack here - what did the letter from the court state about todays hearing ?

If it was meant to to be a track allocation hearing as you seem to think, then I have no idea how a Judge could possibly reach such a decision today.....and as such, it would have put you at a huge disadvantage.

 

A letter of complaint to the Office for Judicial Complaints at least, I would suggest !!

[citizenB]

Citizen B that was my understanding too. The solicitor told me before we went in that she was going to try to get judgement today. The judge seemed to just go for judgement, a done deal it looked like.

 

Ok, I need some sort of a plan. I tried to go to the CAB after court but they're closed on Tuesdays, so I came to work instead!

 

The judge did make the point that I have 28 days in which to get advice and organise something as CL Finance can't do anything within those 28 days... although as it stands the full balance plus costs is payable then. Do you think I'd need to approach CL finance or the court for a payment plan?! Oh what a big mess!

 

HI Casper

 

If Judgement as been granted fourthwith just download the N245 costs £30 and submit your redetermination.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

You will find form N245 in pdf format in the following link.

 

FORM N245

 

 

HTH

[Ell-enn]

HI Casper

 

If Judgement as been granted fourthwith just download the N245 costs £30 and submit your redetermination. It's 35.00 now

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

If you need help with the N245, just shout. You can attach a statement to the form detailing the situation.

[AndyOrch]

Sorry to read of how it went for you today Casperlady...sounds like you got a poor DDJ.

 

Can we backtrack here - what did the letter from the court state about todays hearing ?

If it was meant to to be a track allocation hearing as you seem to think, then I have no idea how a Judge could possibly reach such a decision today.....and as such, it would have put you at a huge disadvantage.

 

A letter of complaint to the Office for Judicial Complaints at least, I would suggest !!

 

 

 

Just back tracking here but if its not even been allocated to track then how can a decision and judgement be granted????

Are you sure you have the facts right here Casper?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[diddydicky]

Sorry to read of how it went for you today Casperlady...sounds like you got a poor DDJ.

 

Can we backtrack here - what did the letter from the court state about todays hearing ?

If it was meant to to be a track allocation hearing as you seem to think, then I have no idea how a Judge could possibly reach such a decision today.....and as such, it would have put you at a huge disadvantage.

 

A letter of complaint to the Office for Judicial Complaints at least, I would suggest !!

 

if those remarks were on the tape recording the judge is in a deep pile of poo poo- there is no legal basis for him "warning you off" defending on the grounds of the costs

 

it sounds to me like the solicitor and the judge between them have railroaded you into coming to an agreement on the day for you to accept a SJ which again is totally out of order

 

i would definately seek, the urgent advice of a CFA lawyer (google it- youll find some) and appeal this

 

and you need to remember that the only reason you started to discuss "settlements" with the solicitor is because you had been threatened and wrong footed by the judge

[citizenB]

andy, this is from post 38...

 

 

Originally Posted by casperlady

Well it looks as though I did mess up that form

 

I received a letter from the court today..

 

"District Judge has considered the statements of case and allocation questionaires submitted in this claim and has decided that a hearing is necessary before a final decision about allocation can be made.

 

Reasons for the hearing are as follows: To consider (a) Whether further particulars of the claim are needed (b) directions generally

 

District Judge orders you to attend at (time and date, which is about a month away)"

 

Can anyone help me? What do I do now? I know I have to attend the hearing, but what information should I go with? I'd be very grateful for any help at all, please!!!!!

[AndyOrch]

Did they make application for SJ?

 

 

 

Andy

[citizenB]

Did they make application for SJ?

 

 

 

Andy

 

I dont think so, casparlady would have to answer that one.

[AndyOrch]

Well if they did and you didnt object or submit your own WS in response then thats what happens and the DJ is within his jurisdiction to make judgement.If so just submit the N245 as advised.

 

Lessons to be learned for all other Caggers;)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[casperlady]

Did they make application for SJ?

 

 

 

Andy

 

Sorry, I don't know what this means?! Can you elaborate?

[casperlady]

if those remarks were on the tape recording the judge is in a deep pile of poo poo- there is no legal basis for him "warning you off" defending on the grounds of the costs

 

it sounds to me like the solicitor and the judge between them have railroaded you into coming to an agreement on the day for you to accept a SJ which again is totally out of order

 

i would definately seek, the urgent advice of a CFA lawyer (google it- youll find some) and appeal this

 

and you need to remember that the only reason you started to discuss "settlements" with the solicitor is because you had been threatened and wrong footed by the judge

 

The solicitor and the judge had definitely been speaking before I got there. The judge told me that he had asked the solicitor to discuss the case with me beforehand, apparently to get me to admit to it after receiving all their papers. When I said I didn't want to discuss it with the solicitor, she must have known that the judge wouldn't be happy with me about that.

[postggj]

summary judgement