Is This Legal

[2ltr16valve]

tho im not able to view the site anymore it seems to have gone down again

 

 

I can still access it ?

[labrat]

i can again now must have just been a temp thing

[Fickle]

i can again now must have just been a temp thing

 

It went dead on me earlier. I suspect that Mr Bristow found out how to ban an IP. Switching the router off and on again brought the site back to life.

 

Now all I want is for him to fulfill my order for £4000 worth of 'legal' software.

[My Real Name]

There's a good article on Out-Law.com relating to this.

 

It would appear that Mr Shaw's wishful thinking may be based on the idea that the purchaser of software has a necessity to have a backup, and therefore the absolute right to back it up.

 

The nuance may lie in what the consumer is permitted to backup - is it the disk itself. Certainly, the Sony case suggests that the whole pint of backup was for the purpose of redundancy of unstable media, a purpose made entirely moot with the advent of the DVD media disk, particularly modern ones with very long lasting dyes.

 

I fail entirely to see how that may be extrapolated to mean that someone else may do so, using a different disk on an unlicensed basis.

 

[Edit]

 

This site must only be used for legal backup purposes ONLY.

It's this sort of whimsy that is likely to get the site owner into trouble. Of the criminal kind, not just civil.

 

I wonder if he is familiar with the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (c. 29), and the fact that pretty much all of his assets would be up for grabs.

[labrat]

hmm i would email him pointing out the illegalitty of what hes doing, however then i would get my email published on his site, however i could then report a breach of the data protection act.

 

p.s. i couldnt find a registration for a data controller, surely if hes storing address, emails, personal details etc then he needs that, then again hes already in breach by posting peoples emails on his site for all to see...

[Conniff]

What is being done here is illegal. These are not backups and cannot be classed as such.

 

A backup is a duplicate of the disc you own and must work with the key that came with the software when you bought it.

 

As you are not being asked to send your disc in for copying, but being supplied with a new disc containing the software and another key to use it, it is a new and complete disc with copyrighted software that has been duplicated and sold under the con name of a backup.

 

It can never be a backup as long as it is supplied with a key that is different to the one you purchased.

 

It is pirated software.

[labrat]

we know conniff we just cant help talking about it...

 

 

on a side note emailed atari to point out the site....

and emailed nominet as hes registered as a non-trading individual so he doesnt have to give his details..

[Hairy_g]

From the "about xl " page:

 

XL Trading © is based in London, UK and started trading early in 2007.

Liar, that's a different company, you are based in Sheffield as we all know.

We focus mainly on media backup and import related items.

Translation: Illeagal copies and downloads from across the globe.

We pride ourselves on our world class customer service who deal with many queries and orders over the space

of a week and who we belive embody the spirit of the XL philosophy - 'the customer comes first at all times!'

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't this the same philosophy as a prostitute?

 

We are now entering the end of the third full year of trading and have now improved our services threefold

adding new product ranges such as Nintendo DS software, Music CD's, and also XBOX 360 software which

is also increasing rapidly daily - also the DVD Movie count continues its upward rise daily (now clocked at over 4000+)

That's going to be one hell of a bonfire.

 

In short, we have the best service - the best products and the best prices

Why go anywhere else?

Because my stepson is one of many at University studying games programing, pirates like you could put software houses out of business, meaning he has no job to go to.

 

NOTE: All of our products are legal to purchase as long as you have the original version in your possession and that

the version you purchase from us will only be used in a spare backup capacity to keep the original from being damaged.

No, they are not.

 

By agreeing to use this site as a member, you agree to our legal disclaimer which can be found when placing an order with us.

You MUST check the tickbox to continue with an order with our store.

Means nothing, I only own 5 pc games but could order as many " backups " as I wanted, of any game or program just by ticking that box.

 

We are NOT legally responsible for any misuse of any of the items on this store nor do we support piracy in any way

shape or form.

If you are not legally responsible, you should be morally.

If you are obtaining your " backups " from anywhere other than the correct channels, then you are supporting piracy, anyone buying from you is also supporting piracy.

 

XL Trading

 

Hopefully that will soon be UNtrading.

[labrat]

got a reply from atari they're looking into it

[electron99]

If you have the nerve there is a way of testing the legality of this. Make back-ups of all your legally purchased software, and sell them at the next car boot sale.Have each purchaser tick a form to confirm they hold the originals.

 

Eventually, when Trading Standards take an interest, tell them XL Trading says it is legal and see where that gets you.

[labrat]

i tried it they said something about booking me a nice room, must be nice it has to have bars on the windows to stop people breaking in

[mightymouse_69]

i tried it they said something about booking me a nice room, must be nice it has to have bars on the windows to stop people breaking in

 

Oooo, that must be the Wormwood Scrubs resort! I hear the Jeffrey Archer Suite is the best...

[Yellow160]

just had a quick look at the site and he is offering Trick r Treat on DVD.. After checking play.com its only on pre-order and due for release 26/10/09. Very dodgy site/service

[heliosfa]

I love the fact that they are breaching soooo many legal requirements:

 

• No Registered Business Address shown on Site
  
• No DSR Rules shown on site
  
• No Company number or VAT (if applicable) Number shown on Site
  
• Blatant disregard for the Data Protection act (posting of E-Mail addresses, etc. identifiable information anyone?)
  

Not to mention the outright illegality of what they are doing as a company. Not only are they providing software "Backups" but Music CD Backups and console "Chipping" services as well.

 

 

I suppose the question is what is the best way to take this con outfit on? Obviously if as many people as possible report them to the Information Commissioner, Trading Standards and OFT, something might get done.

 

Also, found these guys who seem to "investigate" Companies Act violations: Companies Investigation Branch (CIB) , the Companies Investigation Branch

 

 

H

Edited October 16, 2009 by heliosfa

[heliosfa]

Also noticed they are doing a "live TV Stream" which seems to be showing Metallica Music Videos at the moment.

 

I wonder if they are licensed by the content provider and have a PRS license?

 

EDIT: I know it is "working with the devil" so to speak, But I've just contacted PRS to get their thoughts on XL selling "BAckup" music CDs and running this onlie Music TV station.

 

H

Edited October 16, 2009 by heliosfa

[kiptower]

fell out of the chair laughing @ his twitter comments, what planet is this guy on maybe "PLANT PERKY"

 

on his twitter page

 

QUOTE

 

Maybe we should host a dating site for sad, reclusive, virgins who sit on consumer forums all day? What do we all think???

[labrat]

just got a reply from nominet they have agreed he cannot hide behind a non-trading individual status and have update whois accordingly

 

tho doing a address lookup its incorrectly registered to a medical practice.... nauty nauty

[1984ReturnsForReal]

Another host has switched XL off...

 

 

On to the next one in a couple of days?

[heliosfa]

fell out of the chair laughing @ his twitter comments, what planet is this guy on maybe "PLANT PERKY"

 

on his twitter page

 

QUOTE

 

Maybe we should host a dating site for sad, reclusive, virgins who sit on consumer forums all day? What do we all think???

 

I noticed that, then promptly ignored it.

 

This guy is your typical "ooh this is a good idea", then when that idea turns out to be illegal and unethical and he is brought up on it, he retaliates.

 

 

I was thinking about ordering something cheapish and then exercising my rights to return it under tyhe DSRs. As he has not specified who pays the return postage, he has to!

 

Could have quite a bit of fun with him...

 

H

[heliosfa]

Please address complaints to:

 

[email protected]

 

or alternatively contact adams father (step), aka Tim Shaw.

 

Trading out of Elm Lane, Sheffield.

 

Funny, Mr. Shaw is the guy on the XLTrading.net domain registration...

 

H

Edited October 16, 2009 by heliosfa

[heliosfa]

Now, that's what I call a quick response from the PRS:

Dear HeliosFA

The below website has been closed down.

Regards,

Darren

 

 

:O

[1984ReturnsForReal]

Install Interspire Shopping Cart

 

http://www.xltrading.co.uk/admin/

[1984ReturnsForReal]

"

Rumour Control - This is XL Calling!

 

Posted on 17th Oct 2009 @ 11:25 PM

Untitled 1

Hello there good people.. a bit of rumour control today as to what is going on at the moment.

 

1. We are NOT dead as the internet would have you believe.

The site is under attack by quite sad people online who believe you should not have your

god given right as people living in the UK and around the world, to enact the law that

states you should be able to own a backup copy of your media.

 

Since the big companies cannot take us down legally, they have to resort to attacking our

webhosting. Which they did over a week ago.

 

No problem - we just moved ship to a much more secure hosting site and its 5 brothers and

sisters just in case we have any more silliness from the bigger companies.

 

 

2. What has been going on this week?

This week we have got a more secure webhosting with 6 worldwide hosts around the world

which cannot be taken offline. We have also added the security of a few more

privacy options for the servers themselves adding to the whole package.

 

 

3. Why has the site been going up and down this week?

You may have noticed the 'suspended' grey page a day or two ago.

Nothing bad to report and to stop rumours of our imminent demise which is totally

not correct.. the site has been attacked by a DDOS attack in an attempt to drain

the site's bandwith to try and get the site pulled this way.

NOT - GOING - TO WORK

The problem with that is because we are on an UNLIMITED package for bandwith

Work has also begun to block any more attempted attacks from saddo's trying to kill

the bandwith once again.

 

 

4. Someone has a '300 page report on XL Trading'

Not at all. This is the same rubbish we keep hearing from a lot of people who

'claim' to think we have been arrested, put in prison, site being closed down etc.

None of it is true and no-one knows anything apart from who we have 'supposedly'

been reported to.

Until someone PROVES IT... its just crap.

 

 

5. You have been reported to FACT/FAST/Trading Standards have you not?

Allegedly (not heard from anyone apart from FAST).. and they have done NOTHING.

Because for the simple reason, they know they cannot prosecute us.

The bigger companies know this which is why they go after the webhosting

with DMCA requests. Pretty spineless really if you think about it.

 

We have a lovely email from FAST which we can produce if you wish which

indicates they understand the 'service legally' that we offer to clients

who have agreed the legal disclaimer which is why they are NOT investigating

us and have spoken to the relevant parties on our behalf.

 

 

6. TomTOm have been in contact have they not?

We have been talking to TomToms solicitor in the UK and we put our service across

to them. It was a very positive conversation with them indicating that NO LEGAL

ACTION would be taken against us. The main crux of the argument is this:

 

1. Client legally owns the maps already

2. Approaches XL for a backup copy of them on disc for example.

3. We legally disclaim that the client MUST own the maps already.

4. Customer has to agree to continue.

5. Disc is produced with maps on them.

 

What TomTom's solicitor basically said was.

1. Even though you pay £50 for maps.. you only own the licence to them.

CRAP. If you own the licence to them then, you are legally allowed to protect you

right by law to access the 'licence' by any means.

 

Which is WHY they and other companies.. cannot do anything as they know it is

ILLEGAL for them to stop you doing so.

 

 

7. You will be closing before xmas?

FALSE. We have been around 3+ years now and will continue to be around LONG after

other sites have perished.. just like the Pirate Bay

 

 

8. PayPal has been stopped on the site?

Not at all. We hold over 6 accounts - nothing to do with XL Trading which cannot

be closed down by any attempts.

 

 

9. People are posting details about you online!

Problem is.. the details that are online are FAKE.

Nothing to do with XL at all

OOps.....

 

 

 

 

 

"

[IPman]

6. TomTOm have been in contact have they not?

We have been talking to TomToms solicitor in the UK and we put our service across to them. It was a very positive conversation with them indicating that NO LEGAL ACTION would be taken against us.

 

I've just put Tom-Tom (and other variant spellings) into XL Trading's search box. The result:

Your search for "tom-tom" did not match any products

 

I can hear that conversation now:

 

Tom-Tom's solicitor: You're selling illegal copies of Tom-Tom software.

XL Trading: We just provide a backup service for existing Tom-Tom users. That's legal.

Solicitor: Rubbish. But I'll do you a deal. Take all our products off your site immediately and we won't sue you.

XL Trading: Oh, all right then.

 

Yes, I'd say that was a very positive conversation... for Tom-Tom.

Edited October 18, 2009 by IPman

[labrat]

so the little fact i have an email from atari stating they are currently investigating is another rumour