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Have just had a reply from Adobe

 

    RE: Copying software‏
    From:                     [b]Chris Stickle[/b] ([email protected])                                                             Sent:         07 October 2009 17:35:51           To:          electron99


                    [color=black]Totally illegal…thanks [/color]


 [color=black]Chris Stickle[/color]
 [color=black]Enforcement Manager, Anti-Piracy[/color]
 [color=black]Adobe Systems Incorporated[/color]
 [color=black]601 Townsend St.[/color]
 [color=black]San Francisco, CA 94103[/color]
 [color=black]415.832.5187[/color]
 [color=black]415.832.5140 fax[/color]
 [color=black][email protected][/color]


[b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:20 AM
[b]To:[/b] piracy adobe
[b]Subject:[/b] Copying software




[img=http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/i_safe.gif][img=http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/i_safe.gif][img=http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/i_safe.gif][img=http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/i_safe.gif][img=http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/i_safe.gif]This company
http://www.xltrading.co.uk/store/categories/PC-Software/

Is selling copies of your software for £3.50-£4.50. 
Please can you confirm that they are trading legally, and it is all right 
to purchase from them.

electron99  

So it seems the days of XLTrading are numbered.

 

 

Very good post electron99 :)

 

Answer this XL trading, why then would a user pay you for a "copy" of a product they already own ?

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Xl trading i note that you have dodged my questions

 

please refer them on page one and get back to me

 

also i note you quote the copyright 1999 please point to me the relevent paragraph i have a copy of this on my shelves and would like to browse the relevent section

Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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Very good post electron99 :)

 

Answer this XL trading, why then would a user pay you for a "copy" of a product they already own ?

 

We await a response from 'Chris' himself and await his legal permission (which you need on forums by the way) to post any private email message on a public forum.

 

Why would people pay for a copy of a product they already own?

Good question, we will answer that.

 

Are you a gamer?

Do you have children?

Do you let your children play your games on their console?

Do your children treat the discs with respect and great care?

 

OR if you do not have kids:

 

Should you wish to own a backup copy of expensive software you have purchased in case of disc breakage, scratches etc.. then you can legally use a service like ours to provide such a service to you providing you LEGALLY own the media (have purchased it)

 

We hope this answers your question for you :)

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I see that they sell TomTom Maps also, I have emailed Tomtom to ask if it is ok to buy from them :-)

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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few quick questions then about xl trading

 

whats the registration number for the data protection commisioners? ive looked but im unable to find one

 

the disclaimer list exclusions under the uks copyright & patent act 1999 however only provides an extract from us law.

 

theres several films out for "backup copy" that are not out in the cinema yet notably "up" explain how this is legal

 

After the events of this week, I will not be divulging any personal or commercial information about our site. Not that I would be witholding the information, but that information we have already (or not) posted to the net this week has seen

* People impersonate us to Nominet - illegally

* Report us to FAST without ANY evidence... FAST agree with us

 

You can see why we are not obliging at the moment.

 

The films you mentioned which are not out in the UK are available for import from other areas around the world which we do import in from a lot of different areas. Again, we would not sell a backup copy UNLESS the client clearly legally states, they already own an imported/or UK owned version of the same media.

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Why would people pay for a copy of a product they already own?

Good question, we will answer that.

 

Are you a gamer?

Do you have children?

Do you let your children play your games on their console?

Do your children treat the discs with respect and great care?

 

OR if you do not have kids:

 

Should you wish to own a backup copy of expensive software you have purchased in case of disc breakage, scratches etc.. then you can legally use a service like ours to provide such a service to you providing you LEGALLY own the media (have purchased it)

 

We hope this answers your question for you :)

 

 

So what proof is provided that they actually own a legal original of the software, when you sell your items to people as "backup" copys ?

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I see that they sell TomTom Maps also, I have emailed Tomtom to ask if it is ok to buy from them :-)

 

Again.. read the terms and conditions.

You MUST already own the product to use this service.

Quite clear and black and white.

 

We sell nothing, on the site illegally.

We offer a service where we can duplicate legally purchased media, or reinstall something which you must already legally own.

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We await a response from 'Chris' himself and await his legal permission (which you need on forums by the way) to post any private email message on a public forum.

 

Why would people pay for a copy of a product they already own?

Good question, we will answer that.

 

Are you a gamer?

Do you have children?

Do you let your children play your games on their console?

Do your children treat the discs with respect and great care?

 

OR if you do not have kids:

 

Should you wish to own a backup copy of expensive software you have purchased in case of disc breakage, scratches etc.. then you can legally use a service like ours to provide such a service to you providing you LEGALLY own the media (have purchased it)

 

We hope this answers your question for you :)

 

All well and good, but you appear not to realise that Microsoft in paticular do not allow any backups for any reason, since you are purchasing the right to use the software and not outright ownership.

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So what proof is provided that they actually own a legal original of the software, when you sell your items to people as "backup" copys ?

 

Under UK law, the terms and conditions state, you must own the original item - the check box at the end of the order, which the client MUST agree to (agreeing to the site T&C's) provide us to be absolved for any misuse of any product on our site.

 

We are not pirates, nor would we ever wish to be :)

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Up is only being released in the cinema on Friday, it is not available to buy on DVD anywhere in the world yet and isnt released on DVD until November 10th in the USA.

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Up is only being released in the cinema on Friday, it is not available to buy on DVD anywhere in the world yet and isnt released on DVD until November 10th in the USA.

 

Up has been in cinemas worldwide for a few months I believe.. I will check this but I am sure this is the case as my stepdaughter I believe visited our local Odean to see it.

 

I believe certain retailers in the US and China are already stocking the item, which we did import from (China)

 

And yes.. it is the original sealed product.

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Under UK law, the terms and conditions state, you must own the original item - the check box at the end of the order, which the client MUST agree to (agreeing to the site T&C's) provide us to be absolved for any misuse of any product on our site.

 

We are not pirates, nor would we ever wish to be :)

 

 

So you are saying you require no material evidence that the customer owns that product, and if called upon could contact your customer database and all the customers could prove they have a legal right to have what you have supplied ?

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All well and good, but you appear not to realise that Microsoft in paticular do not allow any backups for any reason, since you are purchasing the right to use the software and not outright ownership.

 

Microsoft do not have any legal power in the world to stop you making a backup copy of something you legally own- if they did, why would they allow you to 'rip' a copy of a legally owned CD to your XBOX 360?

 

Would this not be the same thing?

 

You would be making 'ANOTHER' copy of a CD or tracks onto another medium - without needing their consent which is perfectly legal to do.

 

Unless someone legally comes out and looks into this, and I mean, REALLY looks into this, no-one so far has come out - from the legal profession - I might add to devalue this.

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visit imdb.com -> up release date worldwide is 9th october.

 

todays the 7th. please explain :)

Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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So you are saying you require no material evidence that the customer owns that product, and if called upon could contact your customer database and all the customers could prove they have a legal right to have what you have supplied ?

 

We do require that the checkbox be ticked which signify's that the terms and conditions have been read and agreed to.. this absolves us legally from any misuse by the client.

 

It is a clients right to use our service and use it legally, and we do not condone ANY misuse of this right.

 

The clients we have on the site legally have to abide by the terms and conditions of usage of our services or they are not allowed to be a part of XL.

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Microsoft do not have any legal power in the world to stop you making a backup copy of something you legally own- if they did, why would they allow you to 'rip' a copy of a legally owned CD to your XBOX 360?

 

Would this not be the same thing?

 

You would be making 'ANOTHER' copy of a CD or tracks onto another medium - without needing their consent which is perfectly legal to do.

 

Unless someone legally comes out and looks into this, and I mean, REALLY looks into this, no-one so far has come out - from the legal profession - I might add to devalue this.

 

Not really as the person is not paying to do this or paying for a service to supply this. This is their product they are using. While we are on the subject, why is it then that most dvd's and music are copy protected and can not be "ripped" without bypassing this illegally ?

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We do require that the checkbox be ticked which signify's that the terms and conditions have been read and agreed to.. this absolves us legally from any misuse by the client.

 

It is a clients right to use our service and use it legally, and we do not condone ANY misuse of this right.

 

The clients we have on the site legally have to abide by the terms and conditions of usage of our services or they are not allowed to be a part of XL.

 

 

Surely your own terms and conditions do not excuse you from law ? by your own admission you do not ask for any proof other than a tick box...

 

you say you do not condone any misuse of this right, yet make no actual attempt to ascertain if they really own the product or not.

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visit imdb.com -> up release date worldwide is 9th october.

 

todays the 7th. please explain :)

 

Did you check the IMDB Box Office/Business portion - I believe you did not.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1049413/business

 

Russia had it open on the 31/5/2009 I believe with an opening profit of $3.8m

 

The Philippines opened on 23/8/2009 also.

Quite clearly proof, that the worldwide release date IS NOT 9th October.

 

EDIT: It also seems that the US DID have it before us also.

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Did you check the IMDB Box Office/Business portion - I believe you did not.

Up (2009) - Box office / business

 

Russia had it open on the 31/5/2009 I believe with an opening profit of $3.8m

 

The Philippines opened on 23/8/2009 also.

 

Quite clearly proof, that the worldwide release date IS NOT 9th October.

 

 

your right there, although ! this is a "cinema" release, not a DVD release. and NOT in the UK, so would it not be illegal for someone to purchase the dvd in the UK until release ?

 

 

France 13 May 2009 (Cannes Film Festival) USA 16 May 2009 (Hollywood, California) (premiere) Russia 28 May 2009

Canada 29 May 2009

USA 29 May 2009

Egypt 3 June 2009

United Arab Emirates 3 June 2009

Kuwait 4 June 2009

Colombia 5 June 2009

Mexico 5 June 2009

Uruguay 5 June 2009

Venezuela 5 June 2009

Argentina 11 June 2009

Georgia 11 June 2009

Lebanon 11 June 2009

Peru 11 June 2009

Thailand 11 June 2009

Ecuador 12 June 2009

Panama 12 June 2009

Romania 12 June 2009

Ukraine 18 June 2009

Israel 23 July 2009

France 29 July 2009

Indonesia 29 July 2009

Hong Kong 30 July 2009

South Korea 30 July 2009

Spain 30 July 2009

Taiwan 31 July 2009

China 4 August 2009

Croatia 6 August 2009

Estonia 7 August 2009

Latvia 7 August 2009

Singapore 7 August 2009

Portugal 13 August 2009

Philippines 19 August 2009

Czech Republic 20 August 2009

Lithuania 21 August 2009

Iceland 26 August 2009

Slovakia 27 August 2009

Australia 3 September 2009

Brazil 4 September 2009

Netherlands 6 September 2009 (Amsterdam) (premiere) Greece 10 September 2009

New Zealand 10 September 2009

India 11 September 2009

Germany 17 September 2009

Austria 18 September 2009

Slovenia 24 September 2009

Bulgaria 25 September 2009

Norway 25 September 2009

Denmark 2 October 2009

Belgium 7 October 2009

Netherlands 7 October 2009

Finland 9 October 2009

UK 9 October 2009

Hungary 15 October 2009

Italy 15 October 2009

Poland 16 October 2009

Sweden 16 October 2009

Turkey 16 October 2009

Japan 5 December 2009

they are the release dates for cinema from
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1049413/releaseinfo#akas

Can not find anything that states dvd is released as yet.

Edited by 2ltr16valve
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Not really as the person is not paying to do this or paying for a service to supply this. This is their product they are using. While we are on the subject, why is it then that most dvd's and music are copy protected and can not be "ripped" without bypassing this illegally ?

 

Agreed.. however the basis is still the same I believe.

We own a legal CD which Microsoft allows you to 'rip' to the 360 - allowing for a perfect reproduction of a full CD OR individual tracks.. provided the CD is legally owned.

 

Do Microsoft check if you are using an original CD before letting you do this - no.

 

Exactly the same apart from - a person that cannot duplicate a media item themselves, can ask us to do it for them.

 

There is software on the market I believe, that allows you to legally backup DVD's as well... I think it is AnyDVD - but the fact remains, this product could not exist without the fact, that we are legally allowed to make backups as long as we own the original product, purchased.. and that the use of it DOES NOT aid piracy or is illegally used.

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Surely your own terms and conditions do not excuse you from law ? by your own admission you do not ask for any proof other than a tick box...

 

you say you do not condone any misuse of this right, yet make no actual attempt to ascertain if they really own the product or not.

 

We are not there to hold clients hands at the end of the day - neither are Microsoft.

 

Again, I know I keep mentioning it.. but under legal law.. we are totally absolved from any legal comeback on something that HAS to be legally agreed at the end of the day.

 

All we can say is, DO NOT use this product illegally.

We do not have to accertain at all... you come onto a site, agree its T&C's and abide by its rules.

 

It is the same for this site for example.

Why do you think they have a tick box when registering?

 

You have to agree to the sites terms and conditions as it absolves CAG from any wrongdoing.

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Agreed.. however the basis is still the same I believe.

We own a legal CD which Microsoft allows you to 'rip' to the 360 - allowing for a perfect reproduction of a full CD OR individual tracks.. provided the CD is legally owned.

 

Do Microsoft check if you are using an original CD before letting you do this - no.

 

Exactly the same apart from - a person that cannot duplicate a media item themselves, can ask us to do it for them.

 

There is software on the market I believe, that allows you to legally backup DVD's as well... I think it is AnyDVD - but the fact remains, this product could not exist without the fact, that we are legally allowed to make backups as long as we own the original product, purchased.. and that the use of it DOES NOT aid piracy or is illegally used.

 

 

Hit the nail on the head there in your last sentence.... "and that the use of it DOES NOT aid piracy or is illegally used" your not ensuring this, merely asking "are you legally allowed this" and then selling it.

 

Let me put this a different way, say a large supermarket chain has a customer buying spirits.... they ask, "are you over 21?" "yes" the customer replies. "ok, we will sell you this then".... not asking for PROOF is breaking the law.

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your right there, although ! this is a "cinema" release, not a DVD release. and NOT in the UK, so would it not be illegal for someone to purchase the dvd in the UK until release ?

 

they are the release dates for cinema from

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1049413/releaseinfo#akas

Can not find anything that states dvd is released as yet.

 

Correct however....

Have you never gone on holiday especially to the US or Japan and seen something REALLY cheaper than over here which is not over here yet?

 

I have.

And I've also purchased quite a lot from outside of the UK as well which is not over here yet.

 

People can purchase the items outside of the UK, and then use our service legally as long as they own the product.

The same rule applies - but the customer MUST have purchased the item to use our service.. we are very strict on this policy.

 

Not to appear sarcastic - but you can import items from other countries I believe :)

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