Cap one CCA recieved today...

[tessisme]

Cap one sent my CCA today but no sig. The CCA is on the reverse of a letter! Also included was another letter stating they had the right not to include my sig.. but surely its not legal to do this?

 

Take a peek :

Edited March 17, 2009 by tessisme
attachements not clear.

[tessisme]

And this letter reason for "omitting" sig

[boswell]

well, i am no expert and a newbie like you, but reading several other posts the document you received should be a "true copy". I havent seen any others with missing sig's. Dont worry tho' the experts will be along to sort it for you soon. Good Luck.

[tessisme]

well, i am no expert and a newbie like you, but reading several other posts the document you received should be a "true copy". I havent seen any others with missing sig's. Dont worry tho' the experts will be along to sort it for you soon. Good Luck.

 

 

I know it should be a true copy but they are stating in a letter that came in the same envelope that they are entitled to "omit" sig etc. Ah well like yourself am no expert and have read quite a bit on this site I think the next step I should be doing is send them account in dispute letter due to them failing to comply with my request.

[sploits]

Cap One have failed to comply with your request. There are none of your details on the agreement you have posted. There is a letter knocking about to send back to them saying they have failed.

I don't know when you took the card out but I bet the APR etc is at todays rates and not when you took the card out. They are bluffing you stating that they dont have to send you a copy with your signature on it.

[tessisme]

must be about 6 years or more... have done the account in dispute letter... here we go again lol

[sploits]

I have never had any problems with Cap One but from the posts I have read about them this seems to be common practice for them (they just don't have a clue). Just keep your head up and maybe think about reporting them to trading standards etc.

 

Sploits

[Out4Revenge]

Hi, As far as I know they can obscure the sig, but they have to send you a copy of the actual agreement you signed, not a blank agreement, with all the terms set out within "the 4 corners". It doesn't look like they have complied

[sploits]

A blank credit agreement cant act as an enforcable CCA. Send the letter off again requesting a true copy of YOUR CCA not a blank one. A blank one proves nothing

[delta6370]

Glad I found this, I asked Cap One for a copy of my CCA and got back the same as you, I also had Power2Search come round to chat to me, they wanted me to phone Cap One on their mobile phone but I refused, told them the account was in dispute and that I was still waiting for a proper CCA.

 

He has obviously told Cap One this, as I have now received a letter telling me that they are unable to comply with my request as I didn't sign the letter requesting it. They have asked me to resend the letter, this time including my signature, do I have to do this? why do they need my signature (if you discount the unethical things I am thinking of!)

[sploits]

Hi delta,

 

you do not need to send them a sample signatue for a CCA request. DO NOT SEND IT. There is a letter on the site somewhere that you can fire back stating this.

[count orlok]

under the 1983 amendment to the 1974 act they are allowed to edit out certain information including the signature, they can but do not have to send you a copy with the signature not covered up, but it must be a true copy of the executed aggreement which they would have to produce in court. if they say they need your signature, ask them why they have been sending you confidential infomation about your alledged debt if they did not know who you were, tell them if they were not sure it was you they have broken the DPA.

[delta6370]

The thing is, they are sending out generic one size fits all agreements, with no account number or anything on it, the only place where the card/account number appears is on the covering letter. so it's not as if they are hiding signatures, there are just no details at all on the agreement that points it towards being anything to do with the person asking.

 

What confused me, is they sent me the generic one, and then only after Power2 Search had obviously reported back, they decided that they needed my signature. I think you could be right with the DPA part of this.

[count orlok]

why do they need your sig, if they have the original doc it is on that?

[boswell]

I know it should be a true copy but they are stating in a letter that came in the same envelope that they are entitled to "omit" sig etc. Ah well like yourself am no expert and have read quite a bit on this site I think the next step I should be doing is send them account in dispute letter due to them failing to comply with my request.

 

It's amazing what you learn on is site, like you ive had a good read as well and what an eye opener it's been, esp about DCA's and their tactics.

Sending a letter asking for a true copy of your Agreement seems a reasonable request to me, after all they should have one because if they go Legal on you they will have to produce it in the end, but take note of what a lot of other caggers say on here, only PRINT your sig, never sign it. Not that they would do anything "unscrupulous" with it of course!!

There is some chat on here about "Digital Sig's" being ok.

Maybe try that, Good Luck.

[babydoll0141917]

typing your sig is ok too...and even just initaling it:)

[vengeancedemon]

The reason that you should NOT sign is that it has been known for certain persons to be creative with photoshop etc and add a signature to a blank document

 

You could of course sign, but put in a non standard subtle variation which would show up on any manufactured documents.

 

Also, if they say thay cannot process a CCA request without your sig tell them nuts, there is nothing in the CCA that requires you to provide a sig and they B****** well know It !

[GhostDebt]

Evening all,

We had the same response to our CCA request (see my thread) and sent them an account in dispute letter, which they promptly replied to saying they had complied etc so today posted a letter to them explaining why they have not complied with my request and that the account is still in dispute, using the same regulations they refer to.

If required, will post it up for you to have a look at so you can consider sending it to them as well.

We're still newbies too, but getting lots of good help from knowledgable people and spent a lot of time on here seeing how other people respond to these standard letters they have sent out.

p.s I notice on the reply they sent you the charges are listed as £12 each occurence. Six years ago the charges were £20 per occurence and so it doesn't comply with your request because it isn't a "true" copy of the agreement at the time the agreement was entered into,,.... lol.

 

Best wishes, lets keep each other updated and through support and collective assistance we will prevail.

 

Cheers

[tessisme]

Evening all,

We had the same response to our CCA request (see my thread) and sent them an account in dispute letter, which they promptly replied to saying they had complied etc so today posted a letter to them explaining why they have not complied with my request and that the account is still in dispute, using the same regulations they refer to.

If required, will post it up for you to have a look at so you can consider sending it to them as well.

We're still newbies too, but getting lots of good help from knowledgable people and spent a lot of time on here seeing how other people respond to these standard letters they have sent out.

p.s I notice on the reply they sent you the charges are listed as £12 each occurence. Six years ago the charges were £20 per occurence and so it doesn't comply with your request because it isn't a "true" copy of the agreement at the time the agreement was entered into,,.... lol.

 

Best wishes, lets keep each other updated and through support and collective assistance we will prevail.

 

Cheers

 

hi GD and everyone else

 

Thanks for your responses. I haven't replied yet, the account in dispute letter goes off tomorrow. I would be grateful GD if you would post the letter for future reference.

 

I agree its not a "true" copy and its cap one's kop out. :-|

[GhostDebt]

Hi Tess,

Will post the letter up for you within the next day or so.

Hope you sent off the account in dispute letter ok.

Did they reply yet?

Best regards.

[GhostDebt]

Hi Tess,

 

The following is the letter we sent in response to the letter received after we sent the account in dispute letter.

 

Hope it's of some use.....

 

Capital One Bank (Europe) Plc

PO Box 5283

Nottingham

NG2 3YG

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number

Further to your letter dated **.**.2009, sent in response to my account in dispute letter dated **.**.2009 regarding my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document, the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Cheers....

[tessisme]

Thanks GD

 

 

Sorry I didn't reply earlier between one thing an another lol I sent the letter off last week and they have received it as track and trace have verified it. They got till april 11 to supply it then its account in dispute. Funnily enough their phone calls increased yesterday and my son answered a couple as I was out. He quoted harrassment etc and a cap one adviser said they can call 23 times a day and he was talking rubbish!! She was reminded that the call was being recorded and she hung up then lol

[loobyloo35]

This gets for interesting reading.... I am in the same boat as I have received the exact same alledged CCA - am now in dispute with mine and trying to claim back charges, so we will all have to see how we get on eh!

[Pipster2797]

I had this from Cap One too. It went on for a few months and they have recently sent me a signed copy of the agreement that looks ok in my eyes but I'm gonna scan up later today.

 

I just don't understand why they fobbed me off for a few months before sending the signed one

[vengeancedemon]

"Can calll up to 23 times a day"?

Wow, that must certainely be classed as Harassment

 

I dont believe they are allowed to call at all if requested not to

Perhaps someone can coorect this?