Thanx chiro, Yep the number crunching is doing my head in, I don't understand why the first month was short either, and neither do the people from H/B, but at the moment I'm going to leave it in the hands of the housing officer and the lady from shelter, hopefully they'll sort it out. If not then I'll be ready for court using the UTCCR's hopefully. I should know more in about a week. Thanx once again for everyones help.

Hi again, Aviva I see what you mean but in reality my shortfall will only be £40.00 per month over the term of the contract. To answer some other questions, they threatened to "go after my garuantor" as soon as I'm late with a paymentI really don't want to get behind with them or with any bills because I can guess that in 6 months I'll be looking for somewhere else to rent and will need a reference from them and a good credit rating so I'll have to keep up with everything. I just been to see someone from Shelter (the homeless charity) and she's said that although it's wrong of them to do this they are within their rights to do it. I told her to contact my housing officer, the one who "had an understang with the agency". She said that I should hear from her within a week or so. I'm doing research into the UTCCR 1999 to see if these can help me, and I'm hoping that someone will come up with something about human rights or maybe something to do with the fact that the law says I need £64.30 per week to live off abd them overcharging me by so much is some sort of infrinement of those laws? If that makes sense? Thanks for your help so far and I hope you don't get to sick of me clutching at straws, Jimi

HI thanx for the advice, I decided not to get their backs up in the end and this is what I took in to them, this was before I saw your response so I'm glad I calmed down and saw sense Please find the sum of £77.13, this is for the “shortfall” for the period 23/01/10-23/02/10. Dear Sir/Madam I am writing in response to your request for the shortfall on the 23rd of each calendar month. While I fully understand that this shortfall must be paid, and I am fully willing to pay it, I find that the amount you are asking me to pay each month seems totally unreasonable. The rent due for the term of the contract is £420.00 PCM x 6 = £2520.00. The amount of housing benefit I’ll get for the same period is £92.31 per week x 26 = £2400.06. This leaves a shortfall of £119.94 for the period of the contract. This month you have asked for the shortfall to the sum of £77.13. Since receiving this request I have worked out what the “shortfall” will be that you’ll be requesting in the months left on the contract. I have done this by dividing the rent (£420) by the number of days in that calendar month, then working out what day the housing benefit will be paid, and then multiplying the difference. For example 23 Jan to 22 Feb., H/B will be paid 15/02, this will leave a shortfall of 7 days. There are 31 days in January so 420/31= £13.54, so 7x13.54= £94.78. Now the Feb/mar shortfall will be £105.00, then mar/arp shortfall will be £135.48. Then arp/may will be £168.00. Then may/June will be £162.58. So 77.13 + 94.78 + 105.00 + 135.48 + 168.00 + 162.58 = £742.97. Now if you take out the actual shortfall of £119.94 that leaves an over payment of £623.03. In that same period of time I will receive in benefits a total of £1671.80, this is the minimum amount that the law says I need to live off. So by you requesting an overpayment from me to the sum of £623.03, that leaves me only £1048.77 to live off for 26 weeks. I have worked out the dates I receive benefit each month, and I’ve worked out how much I will be left with to pay my electric, water, council tax and TV licence, now this is only an estimate and is likely not to be enough, I do plan on using the absolutely bare minimum of electric and water I can, but I still estimate that I will need a minimum of £84.00 each month, plus the payments you will be requesting from me each month. Jan/Feb I have £162.42 before I’ve paid any bills, after bills I have £58.42, that’s £14.60 per week for food and anything else I may need. It is just about enough for me to live off as long as there are no surprises. Feb/Mar I have £152.00 before bills and £48.20 after bills, that’s £12.05 per week. Mar/Arp I have £121.72 before bills and £ 17.72 after, that’s £4.43 left for food per week. Arp/May I have £89.20 before bills and -£14.80 after, please note that this figure is in the negative. This means I can no longer pay all my bills, and for the whole of this month I will have nothing left to buy food with. May/Jun I have £94.62 before bills and -£9.38 after, once again this is a negative figure and so I’ll be unable to pay all my bills and I will have a second month with nothing to buy food with. On the 23rd of June you will owe me £623.23 for the overpayment. You must see how unreasonable it is to demand this massive overpayment, 3 of the shortfall figures are actually higher than the actual shortfall is likely to be. After all, the actual shortfall is only £119.94. Surely a much fairer way would be to divide the shortfall by 6 equal monthly payments. Or maybe change the rent so it is paid every 4 weeks. This could be easily done, just divide 12 months’ rent by 52. 12 x 420 = 5040 / 52 = £96.92 per week x 4 = £387.68. Yours Hopefully I see what you mean about my sums being wrong Aviva, I just don't understand how there so far out, I'll go have a think. BRB

Any news listan?

Heres a letter i'm thinking of handing to them when I go on monday to pay the first "shortfall" Dear Sir/Madam I am writing in response to your request for the shortfall on the 23rd of each calendar month. While I fully understand that this shortfall must be paid, and I am fully willing to pay it, I find that the amount you are asking me to pay each month is totally unreasonable. Before I go any further I am in no way refusing to pay any money I owe, I am writing in the hope that you will be reasonable and we come to an agreement which will be satisfactory to all. The rent due for the term of the contract is £420.00 PCM x 6 = £2520.00. The amount of housing benefit I’ll get for the same period is £92.31 per week x 26 = £2400.06. This leaves a shortfall of £119.94 for the period of the contract. This month you have asked for the shortfall to the sum of £77.13. Since receiving this request I have worked out what the “shortfall” will be that you’ll be requesting in the months left on the contract. I have done this by dividing the rent (£420) by the number of days in that calendar month, then working out what day the housing benefit will be paid, and then multiplying the difference. For example 23 Jan to 22 Feb., H/B will be paid 15/02, this will leave a shortfall of 7 days. There are 31 days in January so 420/31= £13.54, so 7x13.54= £94.78. Now the Feb/mar shortfall will be £105.00, then mar/arp shortfall will be £135.48. Then arp/may will be £168.00. Then may/June will be £162.58. So 77.13 + 94.78 + 105.00 + 135.48 + 168.00 + 162.58 = £742.97. Now if you take out the actual shortfall of £119.94 that leave an over payment of £623.03. In that same period of time I will receive in benefits a total of £1671.80, this is the amount that the law says I need to live off, minimum! So by you requesting an overpayment from me to the sum of £623.03, that leaves me only £1048.77 to live off. I have just been informed that housing benefit will be withholding £5.00 per week for an overpayment of housing benefit from 2005 which I had forgotten about. I know that this is not your problem but it is mine and means that I will have to put an extra £20.00 per month towards my rent. I have worked out the dates I receive benefit each month, and I’ve worked out how much I will be left with to pay my electric, water, council tax and TV licence, now this is only an estimate and is likely not to be enough, I do plan on using the bare minimum of electric and water I can, by not heating the Flat, staying in bed while I’m in the flat, using a hot water bottle to stay warm, only showering once a week, not flushing the toilet unless absolutely necessary, not changing my clothes unless they are visibly dirty, only boiling the kettle once per day and storing the boiling water in a flask, but I still estimate that I will need a minimum of £84.00 each month, plus the payments you will be requesting from me each month, plus the extra £20.00 per month. Jan/Feb I have £162.42 before I’ve paid any bills, after bills I have £58.42, that’s £14.60 per week for food and anything else I may need. It is just about enough for me to live off as long as there are no surprises. Feb/Mar I have £152.00 before bills and £48.20 after bills, that’s £12.05 per week, I will struggle to eat properly with only that amount. Mar/Arp I have £121.72 before bills and £ 17.72 after, that’s £4.43 left for food per week, this will be hard for me to survive on and my health will be suffering by the end of the month! Arp/May I have £89.20 before bills and -£14.80 after, please note that this figure is in the negative. This means I can no longer pay all my bills, and for the whole of this month I will have NOTHING to eat. By this point I will no doubt be getting some major health problems! May/Jun I have £94.62 before bills and -£9.38 after, once again this is a negative figure and so I’ll be unable to pay all my bills and I will have a second month with nothing to eat, by this point I will be either extremely Ill or dead! On the 23rd of June you will owe me £623.23 for the overpayment; while this may be a good way for me to save I doubt I will be alive to collect it. At least it will help my mother with funeral expenses’. I know that I have been a little dramatic but you must now see my point, It’s not only immoral of you to do business this way but I believe it’s also likely to be illegal. You must see how unreasonable it is to demand this massive overpayment, 3 of the shortfall figures are actually higher than the actual shortfall is. After all, the actual shortfall is only £119.94. Surely a much fairer way would be to divide the shortfall by 6 equal monthly payments. Should you still fail to find any human decency in you and continue demanding these extotionate figures I will continue to pay until such time as I can start action via the County Court to have the terms in the contract which allow you to do this declared Illegal/Unlawful. It is my belief that any contract which leaves a consumer in this situation would most likely fall foul of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. anyone got anythoughts, I think there must be some other laws to protect me, mybe the human rights act

Hi, thanks for your replies. I moved in 23/12/09. I paid 1 months rent on that date, they want paying on the 23rd every month, H/B is paid every 4 weeks. They insist on having the full £420 by the 23rd. On 18/01/10 H/B paid £342.87 to cover the period 23/12 to 18/01. H/B will then be paid every 4 weeks. I've also just had a letter from H/B telling me that i'll only be getting £87.32 due to an over payment of H/B previously paid in 2005, so I've done some working out,,, £77.13 this month, I just drawn £60 out of the bank which is all I've got, I've had to borrow £17.00 to pay them, luckily I've already paid my electric bill for last month, but I don't get paid until next wednesday, so I've nothing left for my water bill or to get a TV licence and nothing for food. On the 23rd of feb they'll want £128.56, leaving me after I've paid back the £17.00, £111.88, last months electric was £47.89, and I did my best not to use very much, so If I guess that I'll use £40 per month & say about £20 per month water, then the TV licence is £12 per month if I remember right, and I don't know how much my Council tax will be but with C/tax benefit where I lived last time left me with £12 per month to pay, that leaves me with £27.88 to live off for the month, I think I can just about manage that. Month 4 they'll want £140, which leaves me £117, less my guesstimated bills of £84 per month, leaving me £33.20. Month 5 they'll want £148.94, leaving £88.26, minus bills of £84, leaving me a massive £4.26 to live off. Month 6 they'll want £202, leaving £55.20, minus £84 for bills, leaving me -£28.80. Then on June 23rd they'll owe me £733.04, but I'll be about 4 stone lighter by then. Or I could just not get a TV licence, juggle which bills I pay and try not to ruin my credit rating which I've just spent the last 18 months cleaning up. Help needed please.

Hi all, I'm hoping someone can help me with this, I moved into a flat in December, I paid my first months rent up front and all other payment were to be paid by housing benefit. There is a shortfall, the rent is £420.00 pcm, I get £92.31 per wk. 420.00 x 6 = 2520.00 92.31 x 26= 2400.06 That leaves a shortfall of 119.94. If I divide this by 6 months it is £19.99 per month. I've just had a demand for the shortfall for month 2 of £77.13. I rang them and tried to reason with them, no chance, they won't budge an inch, they said that if I missed the payment then I would be in arrears and would take action. So I've worked it out, based on all the figures, this might be a bit complicated but as far as I know it's accurate,,,,,,,, Month 1, shortfall of £77.13, I already have the bill. Month 2, payment date of H/B 15 Feb rent due 23 Feb = 8 days £420 / 31 (days in month) £13.54 x 8 = 108.32 shortfall. Month 3, 8 days again but only 28 days, 420 / 28 = £15, 8 x 15 = £120 sortfall. Month 4, 11 days x £13.54 = £148.94 Month 5, 13 days x £14.00 = £182.00 Month 6, 16 days x £13.54 = £216.64 £77.13 £108.32 £120.00 £148.94 £182.00 £216.64 = £853.03 this is amount I will have to pay over the 6 months of the agreement, the actual shortfall will only be £119.94, so I will have over paid in the 6 months by £733.04. I'm on benefits of £64.30 per week, x 26 weeks = £1671.80. If I subtract the £733.04 from this, ( which is the minimum the Law say I need to live off) leaves me only £938.76 to live off for 26 weeks. £938.76/26 = £36.10, this is slightly over 50% of what the law says I need to live off. Surely they can't be right leaving me with only this to live off, and it gets worse if you brake it down into monthly figures,,,, month 1 leaves me with £180.00, when the Law say I need £257.20, thats £77.20, almost the amount they are asking for, but in month 6 I need to pay them £216.64, so that leaves me only £40. 56 for the month or £10.14 per week, yet 16 days later they will owe me £733.04, that would be OK but I would owe all of it out for Council tax, Electric, TV license and water, but thats all by the by as I will have starved by then!!! Now please don't get the impression that I'm unwilling to pay the shortfall, but at a reasonable rate!!!!!!!! I've explained all this to the letting agency but they don't care, it's all my problem if I didn't understand what I was signing up to, not theirs, I was living in a homeless B&B at the time and my housing officer said it was all taken care of, so I just signed, the housing officer is doing what she can, she says she had an agreement with the letting agency to avoid this situation but they are not budging. So I'm asking for any advice anyone can offer. I'm thinking about " what the Law says I need to live on, £64.30 minimum" over ruling Contractual Law, The Human right act, ect. HELP PLEASE:(

Bump:)

thanx for that Spamheed:D

sorry for posting on someone else's thread but whats a DRO?

lol me too:D

Hi and welcome to CAG,,, Don't use e-mail, if this ever got to court e-mail would be classed as "hearsay". tell them to only use snail mail and you do the same, always send anything recorded del, never sign your letters or if you do change your sig in some way, yes you need to do a CCA and SAR requests templates here...... The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors don't speak to them on the phone, and read loads of threads, the more you read the easier thimgs get;)

thanx monkey, it looks like it will have to be my former employer then as I hadn't been a member of the union for very long

I'd say that IQOR areon a fishing trip;) I'd just write to them saying you don't acknowledge any debt to them and asking for proof, say you've never heard of them and you've never had a crisis loan, also say you will pay if they can prove the debts yours, don't give away any details and don't use your usual sig, tell them everything in writing, not to phone you. I sent a letter to 2 DCA's, and I've not heard a thing back, heres some bits that should help you,,,, " Could you please provide me at the earliest date possible, and to ensure any payment which may be owed is not unduely delayed, proof of any debt. Do not proceed with any Enforcement action until you have furnished these proofs as I strongly DISPUTE this Debt" " I would also like to see any Proof you have, to establish your rights to claim this money or to start legal proceeding against me, I have at no time had any contact or dealings with your Company, so you must understand that as I have no knowledge of this debt or your company, then I would be foolish indeed to pay any monies to you until I have established that there is a Debt and You have the right to Claim that Debt. Especially considering the recent Publicity regarding this exact sort of thing being a CON, as highlighted on the BBC's Watchdog programme recently. " "The onus is on you to be CERTAIN that firstly there is a debt, you are threatening to correct person, all pre action protocol has been followed before contacting anyone with regard to the debt. Therefore please take note, If this debt is found to be in error or to be unenforcable in anyway, for whatever reason, then there will be a fee for each letter/e-mail/phonecall answered/recieved, the fee will be a standard £9.00 per letter/e-mail sent by me, and £5.00 per phonecall made/recieved, also I will claim for postage/printing/paper/ink cost and the cost of any phone calls. I will also charge you for my time spent in research at the rate of £10.00 per hour. If you decide to send someone to my door, whether I answer the door or not, then there will be a fee of £100.00 per visit. So please ensure that you are chasing the correct person and that there is an actual debt in the first place before contacting me again. If you reply, using any method, saying that you require payment, or that I contact you in any manner then that will be proof of your acceptance of these fees/charges. If you want to avoid these fees/charges then simply do not contact me unless you are CERTAIN that, 1, the debt exists, 2, I am the correct person, 3, the debt is enforceable, 4, you have ALL the above requested proofs and they are sent to me at the same time. I found your letter very upsetting and threatening and have had very little sleep since I recieved it. I have spent over 10 hours on the internet researching the relevent laws and regulations regarding my rights and also your rights, it seems that you have broken quite a few laws, rules and regulations regarding your approach to first contact/threatening behaviour, including the very latest regulations which recently came into force." I hope this helps:)

did you keep the envolope? was it sent 1st or second class? If it was sent 1st, then I'd say it was legit, sorry. I'm sure someone was more knowledge will correct me if I'm wrong but weekends don't matter apart from if it was posted on a friday, it would be classed as served on monday (3 days) or saturday classed as served on tuesday (4days). I hope this helps

if they've bought ALL rights to the alledged debt then could you not claim the cash back they owe you?:D

Hi all. I recieved an offer from them on friday and this is my reply,,,,,,,,,,,, "Dear Sir/Madam Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxxxx Having read your letter I was at first delighted with your offer, unfortunately after having had time to consider and review the contents, I must turn down your offer. The reasons being,,,, Your offer to refund £xxx.xxby way of penalties and interest is nowhere near the amount of penalties and interest incurred since December 2006, the penalties & interest must be more than £xxx.xx. For example last month alone you unlawfully added around £xx.xx in penalties & interest, and this while the account is in SERIOUS DISPUTE! Whichever date is correct I would only accept if ALL penalties & interest that have been applied since the payment agreement ended were refunded. You seem to accept my contention that I was not informed that the arrangement was coming to an end. This being the case, you must accept any Account balance after this date did not in fact reflect the TRUE status of the Account, it then follows that all penalties and interest after this date can not have been applied correctly. You say in your letter “ As discussed, I have arranged for the arrears on your Account to be cleared.” I am confused by this sentence, do you mean that the arrears will be cleared on top of the refund of penalties and interest, or that the refund will be used to clear the arrears? Sorry if it seems I am nit picking, but this could be open to interpretation, and I am unwilling to sign anything unless it's absolutely clear what I'm signing for. You say in your letter, “ I regret I am unable to agree with your request to remove any adverse information sent to the credit reference agencies since your fixed payment agreement ended. Under the Data Protection Act we have to provide accurate information to the credit reference agencies on the status of your Account. Therefore information regarding any late or missed payments will be correctly recorded with the credit reference agencies”. I will state again that the notice pursuant to section 10 of the Data Protection Act was not a request and has never been up for negotiation. The Data Protection Act does not require you to provide ANY Data to CRA's, What It does REQUIRE is that any Data you do add is CORRECT. a. The Notice I sent was a lawful request REQUIRING your company to stop processing my Data forthwith. b. Your company did not inform me that the reduced payment agreement period was coming to an end, therefore any under/late payments or the Account being over limit were as a direct result of your mistake in not informing me the arrangement was coming to an end. Therefore all Data entered with any CRA after that date was as a direct result of YOUR mistake and is NOT an accurate entry of Data which correctly reflects the TRUE status of the Account. Once I noticed YOUR mistake, I attempted to bring the account into order, but once again your adviser made yet another “mistake” and gave me the incorrect figure, twice, it then follows that any Data entered was once again inaccurate and was once again YOUR fault. Any Data added once the payment plan ended was wholly inaccurate. This is your final warning, I will not have your company knowingly entering false and inaccurate Data the CRA's, This is damaging my ability to get credit and is damaging my reputation, I have tried to get this account in order, your companies unending list of mistakes is damaging me personally and is having a bad effect on both my physical & mental health. If these “mistakes” had not been made, then the payments I have made would have brought the Account balance lower than it would be if I accept your offer. This would in fact have the effect of wiping those payments out, therefore effectively wasting that money. I'm sorry if this statement is somewhat confusing but I'm sure that as your the banker you can work it out. If you continue to ignore my lawful s10 request then at least have the decency to give the reasons why you feel you have the rights to defame me publicly. I especially like the final paragraph of your letter which says “To comply with legislation, I would like to let you know that if you remain unhappy you can refer your concerns to the Financial Ombudsman Service”. Why have you suddenly decided to “comply with legislation” and why have you failed to comply with the CCA 1974, Administration of Justice Act 1970, Protection from harassment Act 1997, the Data Protection Act, the Banking code and numerous OFT guidelines? Why have you continued to unlawfully add interest and Unlawful Penalties to a disputed Account? If you really wish to comply with Legislation then I would suggest you comply with ALL relevant Legislation and not just the bits you feel like complying with. Moving onto the acceptance form, can I ask that you give me more details?. I have noticed that it says “In Full and Final Settlement”. Once again this could be open to interpretation, I will not sign anything so ambiguous. I ask that any acceptance form sent in future be exact as to what I am agreeing to settle. Having said all that, I am still willing to attempt to end this dispute, If you within 14 days of the date of this letter,,,, Refund ALL penalties and interest from the date the agreement ended. Once this is done, apply any payments I have made to the account. Remove ALL data added to my files since the payment agreement ended, held with any 3rd party companies, including any CRA's immediately. If you do that then I will set up a standing order to pay £60.00 per month. I will do this even though it will stretch my finances to the limit. This is a fair offer and I hope that you will give it the consideration it deserves. Your companies “mistakes” have caused me considerable distress, I suffer from Anxiety and depression which I am being treated for, but this has been much worse recently so I feel that as none of these “mistakes” are mine, you should be making a "gesture of goodwill" by way of compensation at a level which reflects the length of time this whole mess has been going on, and the stress you have put me through." They have made a very small G0GW so I thought I'd put the last para in. Any thoughts?

Good luck for today Zhan

and don't sign anything you send to them

Bump

Hi, did this go anywhere?????

Just a quick "BUMP" for you Zhan:D

WOW what a thread, real pheonix from the flames stuff, well done all:D I hope that they do discontinue, you sound like you deserve a break!!!!

Congrats & well done all!!!!!

Congrats & well done all!!!!!