Man has heart attack after Baliff takes him to cash machine

[tomtubby]

This is a dreadful story and one that does not surprise me.

 

I do know a lot about this case and will wait for the statement from Jack Straw being saying too much, suffice to say that this man was dreadfully ill, very frail and confused. There would have been little doubt to the bailiff that this was a very ill man.

 

There is simply no excuse at all for taking Mr Miller to a cash point machine, in particular that all bailiffs and their companies must abide by the National Standards for Enforcement Agents which states very clearly what a bailiff should do when faced with a debtor with a serious illness or elderly.

 

Before this visit, this gentleman would have received a letter from the bailiff. I have seen many such letters and the wording is shocking, many of them now say that "I will be attending your premises with a locksmith and police in attendance" and that "we have been granted the right under Schedule 4 of the Domestic Violence Crimes & Victims Act 2004 to force entry into your premises" etc etc,

 

These letters are awful enough when you are a young fit person. The same cannot be said for a person such as Mr Miller who must have been terrified when he received such a letter.

[fwog]

I offer my condolencies to the family first.

 

The fact remains

 

Police said CCTV cameras showed Mr Miller walking alone to various points in the town centre, shortly before he collapsed.

as Chris said you learn to idenify as you go along. Ive managed retail outfits for the best part of a decade for the first leg of my career and you do learn this as a skill. There are no excuses for this. The guy could have done a deferral or payment plan,vinstead he marched the poor old guy to all the cash points he could. Disgusting.

If anyone in my family (god forbid they ever thought of debt collecting) did this, I would be typing this from Winston Green.

 

This needs to stop.

 

 

People are getting hurt for cash.

 

Fwog

[ODC]

The Baliff was appointed by the Court and was acting with their authority so that makes everything alright then does it. Where have I heard all that only following orders nonsense before?????

 

 

Ah yes Nuremburg 1945

[Adam69]

This is absolutely shocking. The bailiff should have his certificate revoked immediately, and be arrested. The company he works for should have their licences suspended. The company directors should be banned from being allowed to be directors. Jack Straw needs to make a huge example of these people, only then will the bailiff 'industry', if it can be so called, realise that they cannot break rules and laws simply to collect a few pounds in commission.

 

Maybe a petition on this forum sent to the local County Court will result in some action.

 

I hope the press don't let this drop until justice is done for the family and friends of this poor man. Name and shame everyone involved- the bailiff, the company, the directors- even the court officials who allowed this warrant to be given out to this heartless thug. Photos, everything- why should they get away with it?

 

Whilst I'm sure most bailiffs are honest and hard working folks who drop a pound in the church collection plate every Sunday, this man is the **** on the dirt that fell off the dead rat at the bottom of the grimiest of gutters. And anyone that disagrees is either cold hearted, a bailiff or a bailiff's pimp.

[rory32]

Whilst I'm sure most bailiffs are honest and hard working folks who drop a pound in the church collection plate every Sunday

Minus commission and fees of course.

[Brassed off]

I agree that the truth will out but I watched the local news tonight and this man's son was on there - how are they going to explain to his son what really happened??? The bailiff had been to his house first and totally frightened his wife and kids by saying that they would be taking belongings to the value of what his father owed from their house before going to his father's.

 

There is far more much more to this than meets the eye I think His son was very subdued on the news and just said that he thought the bailiff should be sacked although I suspect that this may not be what he was thinking at the time. This has been discussed on the Bear Garden:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/178131-another-nail-coffin-bailiffs.html

 

Approximately 6-7 years ago, I had bailiffs calling at my house and at first, I used to hide behind the door and not answer it but when I finally plucked up the courage and opened the door, I was faced with a County Court bailiff who was very pleasant and totally understood my situation at the time and advised me on the best course of action - I consider myself very lucky

[Pinky69]

A shocking picture of how uncivilised the and archaic bailiff system is. I cannot imagine how dreadful this poor man's final minutes in life must have been like - frightened, wandering around, confused,lonely and ill - for the sake of £60. Shocking beyond words.

[MARTIN3030]

Hi Ambershadow

A joke ... well that is more than a little tame. No, we really have got to get people united to fight against this kind of thing. The government must know that this kind of thing is going on. I am currently working out a lengthy document that I intend to e-mail to every MP in the land to see if we can gain any response. But first I am going to contact the Cabinet ministers. The entire debt collecting industry is running riot and they MUST be stopped. We are given no protection from people like the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards that are meant to follow these matters up but they can't be bothered. What kind of country are we now living in?

 

We have already had people like Peter Bard working tirelessly to try to bring these issues to the attention of House of Lords and MPs.

Rather than any relaxation of Baliff powers-they are set to be sanctioned with even more.

The Government claim that there will be strict regulation and guidelines in place-but if Baliffs cannot adhere to those already-then its not unrealistic to assume they will wont comply with regulations under even more powers.

 

 

 

Bailiffs get power to use force on debtors - Times Online

 

 

If I am not mistaken-this is set to go full scale in February 2009.

I dont suppose for one minute after the reports of this incident above,that there will be a mass awareness of these new powers issued by the Courts.

[Brassed off]

The truth will out in this case Martin hopefully

[MARTIN3030]

Yes I am sure it will.

Jack Straw is a brilliant MP-he has never been scared to say what he thinks-he is also one of the few MPS in the labour heartlands on the North West who have managed to keep hold of their seat-because he does such a good job for the peeps he represents.

I have no doubt that he will get the truth here-and that it may even force some of those changes that have been called for.

[tomtubby]

The Government have been promising better regulation for many years and although this was expected in Feb 2009 one again this is not forthcoming. There was a wonderful speech in the House of Lords on Thursday by Lord Lucas where regulation was once again on the agenda. There is a link to this speech on CAG.

 

Many regulars on here will know of the following Court Case earlier this year concerning a disabled lady who we were assisting who made a Form 4 Complaint after she had had her car clamped by a bailiff from Marston Group. The final paragraph is very damning.

 

Marston Group have a copy of the full judgment and so too does the Ministry of Justice (in fact the same department who are looking at the matter of regulation).

 

 

 

MARSTON GROUP and a FORM 4 COMPLAINT.

 

This complaint was made to Middlesborough County Court in February 2008 by a disabled lady, who is confined to a wheelchair.

 

Following this hearing the bailiff's certificate was revoked and compensation awarded to the lady from the bailiff's bond.

 

A parking ticket had been incurred and a bailiff from Drakes Group ( now Marston Group) had visited her home early in the morning and clamped her car BEFORE knocking at the door. The car was clearly displaying a disabled blue badge and the warrant in the possession of the bailiff was in the name of Motability Finance. It was therefore clear to the bailiff that the vehicle in question was a disabled vehicle. The bailiff charged her £553.36 before releasing the clamp.

 

The bailiff also maintained that he had visited the house the previous afternoon which was denied by this lady as the family run a business from their premises with approx 8 staff. Drakes Group, in attempting to prove that a previous visit had taken place provided satellite navigation print outs which the court dismissed as they only proved the bailiff had been in the vicinity....not at the house.

 

At the hearing, the Judge was critical of the bailiff, but in particular was most critical of the company; Drakes Group Ltd ( now Marston Group) for the following:

 

RE: THE CAR BEING CLAMPED BEFORE KNOCKING AT THE DOOR.

 

"There appears to have been absolutely no reason to do that except to bump up Drakes' fees.....which had already been bumped up, it seemed to me, by a heavily unjustified charge the day before".

 

RE: THE ALLEGED VISIT THE PREVIOUS DAY.

 

"I regard it as significant that there is no copy of the letter left (the previous day). I am told that this is a system of Drakes, but Mr X is the only person who can carry the can for an unsatisfactory system."

 

RE: THE CHARGES OF £553.36

 

"Looking at that document ( breakdown of fees) which contains five figures, there is a maximum of one which is accurate , all the others are excessive". He also said that "it seems to me that Mr X is trained to seek excessive amounts by is employers". The Judge confirmed that the "correct figure would probably have been something under £200 made up of the original £95 (PCN), letter and two visits if one took a favourable view about the first visit, certainly not £553.36"

 

RE: SUMMING UP, THE JUDGE SAID THE FOLLOWING:

 

"All in all, this is a disgraceful performance, which I find particularly disturbing since it seems to be in accordance with the policy of the employers Drakes Group Ltd. I find it a matter of considerable regret that there is no body which governs the company rather that the individual bailiff. If there had been, it seems to me that Drakes Group ought to be taken before it and deprived of any licence it had".

 

"It seems to me that it is perfectly clear that firms of this sort ought to be licenced and ought to operate under a statutory code of conduct rather than regarding themselves as......having a licence to rip off debtors".

 

PS: I will ensure that details of this case and indeed many others that our office have copies of are sent to Jack Straw's office today.

[chris600uk]

I don't want to sound cynical - but there is a wider perspective.

 

Playing cowboys and indians around the globe is phenomenally expensive, so is running a country in a recession, especially when you've really cocked up. So the last thing you'll be interested in is taking less tax.

 

That's the point really - the civil servants who draw up these laws know there will be abuses, only a tiny few will bother to add lines of law to protect the vulnerable. So long as a govt minister can say that the checks and balances are working it won't bother them in the slightest.

 

The only thing that matters to them is VOTES, if MP's think they might be voted out of their cushy jobs, they'll do something about it.

 

Look at the extra runway farce - did anyone seriously think that it would be stopped when it's been planned for 10 or possibly 20 years? The civil servants at the top know exactly how big it's going to be eventually.

 

Or the 2nd Iraq war, that was already agreed with the US and the WMD circus was just propaganda to scare the electorate into thinking the war was just. I'm not saying it wasn't, but his honesty cost Dr Kelly his life because he was off-message, the fact that there weren't any WMD got in the way.

 

I could go on and on...............................but I think you get the point

Edited January 17, 2009 by chris600uk
spelling

[ambershadow]

Has the bailiffs Firm been named ?

[Fair-Parking]

So a pensioner dies, but it isn't anybody's fault. The expanation at best may be that the bailiff was just doing his job and the system he represents is faultless. Just a bit of a problem really. Shrug shoulders and let's get on with life.

 

How many more have to die before the penny drops?

[rich777]

What a horrible story.. thoughts to the family concerned and a manslaughter charge for the baliff

[chris600uk]

How many more have to die before the penny drops?

 

 

Er, a member of an MP's family, otherwise quite a few

[chris600uk]

My point FP, is that they foresaw some problems when the law was written, and will resist any suggestion that they are responsible for whats happening now.

 

So they'll do nothing and say the system is working, and that this was just one isolated tragic incident in which no blame can be attached to anyone, so nobody did anything wrong - it's official.

 

So if you are naked in your home, and hear a noise and encounter an armed policemen, bend over and kiss your **** goodbye, cos he knows he can shoot you and get away with it, cos nobody did anything wrong - it's official.

 

And you get promotion for brazilian electricians, especially if your name is Toyota Richard, because nobody did anything wrong - it's official.

 

Cynical, possibly - but I'd like to think I take a realistic view.

[JonCris]

Jack Straw has ordered investigation-so there wont be any cover ups.Wonder who the Baliffs are ?

 

Marstons...........who else..........**** ............ Perhaps you would like to send them a message

[JonCris]

If so here you go. A nice message of congratulations would I think be in order only keep it clean & above all polite

 

[email protected]

 

[email protected]

[JonCris]

Incidentally they are past masters at this sort of behaviour & what the court said then (see TomTubby post 61)

 

Perhaps a copy of that ruling & judges comments should be sent to Jack Straw .........for a second time apparently

[lamb to the slaughter]

Marstons...........who else..........**** ............ Perhaps you would like to send them a message

 

no surprise there then

[thekat1979]

This is disgusting. Is a parking fine worth man's life?

[DCA-KING]

ostrich you quote what bailiffs fees are from there website since when have bailiffs charged what they should by LAW

if there was nothing in it why the investagation? if there was no true in anything they reported would the courts turn around and sue the newspaper you ever had any dealings with bailiffs i have had loads even court ones and they always left empty handed and will continue too

Regards DK

[letsmakeamark]

Has the bailiffs Firm been named ?

It is either phillips,marstons or i have forgotten the third one.

[ambershadow]

MMM You did miss one out JBW