Man has heart attack after Baliff takes him to cash machine

[chris600uk]

I'm not trying to take the **** Os, but you have to admit, it is a bit unlikely isn't it?

[tomtubby]

I understand that he is a bailiff from Marston Group and he was enforing an unpaid Magistrates Court Fine.

[chris600uk]

Why was he driving the man to the cash machine?!

 

Was it because, as his son said, he was too poorly and confused to drive himself?

 

Exactly

[cadencealex]

This is undoubtedly a very sad story. However, reading the comments so far I'm amazed at how many folk from this forum were present on the day and did nothing. I know many who frequent here are blinkered when it comes to bailiffs but this is already turning into a witch hunt before the true facts are known.

 

While there is every possibility the bailiff behaved as most on here would expect, there's also every possibility the bailiff simply knocked on the chaps door, asked for the money in a polite manner and the chap agreed to pay. Maybe the chap said he'd have to go to a cash point and the bailiff offered to drive him to save him walking. Maybe the bailiff was completely unaware of the man's condition.

 

When did the man's family write to the Courts? A month before the bailiff visited? a week? a day? who knows. The reporter didn't see fit to mention. Did the letter even get there? who knows..

 

The reporter doesn't even seem to be able to get her facts straight about the fees. She reports the "Court" added a further "£290" to the original £60 fine. If I'm not mistaken Marstons collect HMCS court fines in Lancashire and their website quotes a maximum of £225 fees in relation to this type of debt making a total of £285.....

 

Lets comment on facts not pure blinkered speculation.

 

Maybe this is just a sad chain of events which ended in tragedy for the man in question and his family.

 

 

Maybe you should forward that post to every Bailiffs office in the UK - you would be an ideal candidate

[Ell-enn]

I wonder if the Bailliff had a good old rummage in the poor mans pockets before the police turned up to rescuscitate him.

 

Why was he driving the man to the cash machine?!

 

Was it because, as his son said, he was too poorly and confused to drive himself?

 

cadencealex, I understand that feelings will be running high in a thread like this, but there is no need for that kind of comment.

[cadencealex]

cadencealex, I understand that feelings will be running high in a thread like this, but there is no need for that kind of comment.

 

 

Sorry?

 

Am I posting these comments in the Bailiffs relaxation Lounge or something?!

[ambershadow]

Lol

[Ell-enn]

Sorry?

 

Am I posting these comments in the Bailiffs relaxation Lounge or something?!

 

Far from it! have you read my posts? believe me, I'm well aware of what bailiffs are capable of and will happily campaign for stricter regulation of them but....I just thought the comment about rummaging in the man's pockets was uncalled for.

[chris600uk]

I wonder if the Bailliff had a good old rummage in the poor mans pockets before the police turned up to rescuscitate him.

 

That's pure speculation - I can't go along with that

 

a) because it could be unfair, the bailiff was still near enough to make himself known to the police that attended

b) because it takes time, and he'd have been seen doing it

 

 

I agreed with the rest of that post though

Edited January 16, 2009 by chris600uk
missed "it"

[cadencealex]

That's pure speculation - I can't go along with that

 

a) because it could be unfair, the bailiff was still near enough to make himself known to the police that attended

b) because it takes time, and he'd have been seen doing it

 

 

I agreed with the rest of that post though

 

 

It is also pure speculation that the Bailiff was a nice man who offered reasonably to drive the sick and confused elderly man to the cash machine

[cadencealex]

Far from it! have you read my posts? believe me, I'm well aware of what bailiffs are capable of and will happily campaign for stricter regulation of them but....I just thought the comment about rummaging in the man's pockets was uncalled for.

 

 

Having watched Bailiffs intimidating children under the age of 2, a female Bailiff also... I put nothing past them.

 

And why wasn't the Bailiff rescuscitating the elderly chap? If he was near and made himself known to the police... where was he whilst the old guy is having a Heart attack?

[chris600uk]

My guess is, he probably knew the old man was in trouble from the start he spent long enough in the car with him to know.

He may have been watching to see what happened next - perhaps a little twinge of conscience, or maybe just curiosity, or maybe he went into Costa coffee to buy himself a brew to warm himself up on a cold day.

 

 

 

Amongst other things I've been a cabbie, I've seen most things people do, good and bad - and that is probably the most likely.

[cadencealex]

My guess is, he probably knew the old man was in trouble from the start he spent long enough in the car with him to know.

He may have been watching to see what happened next - perhaps a little twinge of conscience, or maybe just curiosity, or maybe he went into Costa coffee to buy himself a brew to warm himself up on a cold day.

 

 

 

Amongst other things I've been a cabbie, I've seen most things people do, good and bad - and that is probably the most likely.

 

 

Well a 'twinge' on his conscience hasn't cost him his life, like the elderly chap who had 'twinges' on his heart and subsequently died.

 

I think the Bailiff/the Bailiffs company should be sued for this. For placing stress on this mans heart.

 

If you can sue someone for causing you to feel depressed, surely you can sue someone for causing you to die?

[patrickq1]

ostrich ive heard about them stickin their head in the sand but what you have said is a bit insensitive i know you may mean well and in defence of the poor balliff , but fact is we see the bbc program of the balliffs every week the smug grins and rubbin hands theyre all smilling at someones hard luck you seem to have you head or should i say you have your head stuck up some where else pulled it out and came out with all the brown stuff you have just written...balliff do not care where the money comes from and do not care how they get it ,a decent person (human)would have given him a letter asking him to try and renegotiate some sort of repayment schedule dont you think?

patrickq1

[heathrow]

Come on %Ostrich% ... I know the press tend to exaggerate but anyone who has had dealings with these people knows what they can be like. I had a case, not a tragic one fortunately, whereby I was in the Far East and there had been a misunderstanding ... nothing more ... with my business rates. Unannounced a bailiff turned up at my premises and threatened my young female assistant and frightened her to death. He said he would come back and take everything. My assistant called my wife and she came to the premises and didn't know what to do apart from telling him that I would be back in the country within a few days and would sort it out. But he refused to listen, was extremely intimidating and demanded to know our home address which she stupidly gave him. He threatened to call at the house and take all of our possessions. He was merely taking advantage of two innocent women who hadn't got a clue what to do. It was also not their problem but he had made it so. This had come completely out of the blue, no warning letters or threats from the council, no court action (apparently councils have special powers and can act without court action). My wife has been worried about it happening again because we have found ourselves in debt because of a business collapse.

 

I was called, but because of the time difference, it was in the middle of the night when I took the call, but I range this barstool to offer an explanation and to tell him that a mistake had been made by the council (which it had) but he merely became abusive and we ended up having a slagging match which wasn't wise but in the early hours of the morning 7000 miles from home I was extremely angry.

 

The long and short of it was that my wife got the money from her bank and took it to this clown's office and paid him. Even then he couldn't resist being rude to her.

 

Now the fact of the matter is, I was the debtor, not my wife or my assistant and this ex-police office knew full well that he was breaking the law even by discussing my finances with third parties. He simply didn't care. I tried to bring a case against him and my council for criminal harassment against my wife and staff with the Local Government Ombudsman but they refused to look at the case.

 

The reality of all this is that the Court appointed bailiffs normally will act professionally but the majority out there are private henchmen who want to earn a quick buck and don't bother to observe the laws. They have become out of control, like the debt collecting agencies, and I for one am going to badger every MP in the land to try and bring a Private Member's bill to force changes that will ensure we are treated fairly. I know we should all try to keep out of debt etc but sometimes situations occur that are beyond our control and they snowball and we fall victims

 

As an aside to this story; I returned from the Far East and that very night there was a World In Action documentary on TV that showed this same bailiff acting badly (probably illegally) by repossessing cars and the film could not have done him any favours.

 

The way things are, people will become desperate and if these idiots go in like a bull in a china shop they will get what they deserve if people set about them. I am not condoning violence but we have to accept that many people involved with debt collecting are nothing more than low-life **** and they come up against people similar to themselves. It is only a matter of time before one of them gets blown away.

 

I was a private investigator some years ago and I reguarly had to serve court orders on people.On occasions these have been bankruptcy orders but you have to be calm and patient and sympathetic and not totally beligerent against these people.

 

The debt collecting industry must be reformed and correctly controlled and licensed. The politicians may (but I doubt it) take notice this time and let us hope Jack Straw takes the correct action and does not sweep it under the table. Nobody should die over owing money but the situation has got totally out of hand and it is becoming like a war between the Collectors and the Debtors. It is a sad reflection of society.

 

My thoughts go to Mr Miller's family.

[chris600uk]

The way things are, people will become desperate and if these idiots go in like a bull in a china shop they will get what they deserve if people set about them. I am not condoning violence but we have to accept that many people involved with debt collecting are nothing more than low-life **** and they come up against people similar to themselves. It is only a matter of time before one of them gets blown away.

 

 

Anyone, who has had to deal with the public on their own, especially at night and when they're drunk, will have seen what frightening things are possible from the mildest most innocuous looking individuals.

 

They will learn to "read" people - to quickly identify those (and they come from all walks of life) who are likely to turn nasty (possibly dangerous) if they feel they are wronged (men or women).

These are the people who have an extremely defensive response to fear once they are scared enough, fear that can build up invisibly and turn into sudden violence with little obvious warning. It's true that can apply to some criminals - but lots of non-criminals are exactly the same.

 

When the bailiffs, who are often ex-bouncers, identify these, they'll tiptoe up to the houses when hand delivering letters so as not to cause undue stress or alarm, and will be glad to return to the relative safety of their vehicle (a van provides good protection, a car does not).

 

But when they identify those they CAN intimidate - and that applies to most people - for the bailiff, the fun begins, and the stress is applied to the victim in whatever way the bailiff finds most effective, and for the twisted ones, most gratifying.

 

Stress can be applied subtly to a debtor or any person, because the effect is magnified inside the mind of a frightened victim - there is nothing more frightening than another human that intends to do you harm, and if the debtor perceives the bailiff as such, their experience will be traumatic.

 

Using perceived threats to cause fear follows the same mechanisms at work in robbery, rape and extortion, the psychological dynamics are exactly the same - only the stress varying in intensity from person to person.

 

 

Bottom line.........?

 

Bailiffs know exactly what they are doing - with years of practice they become expert.

[Werner M]

SAD, SAD, SAD;.......MY thoughts are with the Family!!........Werner M.

[Ell-enn]

But when they identify those they CAN intimidate - and that applies to most people - for the bailiff, the fun begins, and the stress is applied to the victim in whatever way the bailiff finds most effective.

 

I agree, I had a thread regarding an employee of mine who was absolutely distraught and unfit to work due to a bailiff who had called at her house at 6.45 in the morning and was hammering on her door and front windows absolutely terrifying the old lady next door. He then stood in the middle of her front garden looking up at her windows. When that didn't work he climbed over the back gate (breaking it) and began hammering on the french doors at the back. Her children were crying and she was frantic. All this due to an unpaid CCJ for £175 that Bryan Carter had got by default and she didn't know what to do. This was a County Court Bailiff too.......

 

He came back two mornings later, again at around 6.45 again and she spoke to him through her window (by this time I had told her what to do) he said she had to let him in to talk about it. Thankfully she told him she knew her rights.

 

The way he behaved was obviously to cause as much embarrassment as possible - disgraceful!

[ambershadow]

I had the same Ell-enn at 5.30 am throwing stones at my window or my daughter's window and she was screaming with fright, then when I did open the window they said we had a delivery for you and I was waiting a delivery so I supidly opend the door to be pushed very hard against a radiator and had a lovely bruise to show the Docter.

They also put their foot in my doorway so I was unable to close my door which is another no no

 

They also went through my daughter of 12 belongings as she left the house with my elder daughter.

 

I couldn't open the door to anyone for weeks or go out incase they returned .

[ambershadow]

And I must add I had an out of time stat dec in place but they refused to except that, My eldest daughter gave them her mortgage money in cash But on phoning there office this was on record for me, and they took cash but couldnt bring it back to her 2 hour's later we had to wait a week

[Ell-enn]

These are the sort of stories MP should know about!

[ambershadow]

It's all in hand now thankfully but I never want to go through that again ever, for something I didn't even know about that happened 3 years ago

 

They are a joke to society

[lamb to the slaughter]

i fully understand feelings running high here and indeed sympathise and feel for the gents family, however as a former businessman and now mechanic i have unfortunately fallen on hard times in the past and indeed had to deal with bailiffs, most of which i must admit were very good, ok 1 was the most obnoxious bar steward you could ever wish to meet but the 3 or 4 others were to say the least polite and dare i say firm but fair perhaps these are a minority i dont know but i speak as i find, on each occasion i had a levy and paid the debt, no problem!!

 

now back to the post, yes indeed said bailiff it would appear should have approached this in a different manner i accept that but it still baffles me as to why everyones attention is on the bailiff and the courts seem to of got away with this scot free, they made the order for christ sake for the bailiff to attend in the first place!!

[heathrow]

Hi Ambershadow

A joke ... well that is more than a little tame. No, we really have got to get people united to fight against this kind of thing. The government must know that this kind of thing is going on. I am currently working out a lengthy document that I intend to e-mail to every MP in the land to see if we can gain any response. But first I am going to contact the Cabinet ministers. The entire debt collecting industry is running riot and they MUST be stopped. We are given no protection from people like the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards that are meant to follow these matters up but they can't be bothered. What kind of country are we now living in?

[Lilythepink]

Does not suprise me the way the government are giving money to the banks, and giving nothing to the pensioners and all the needy people.

My heart goes out to this man's family, and I hope they get justice, or at least some kind of answer for a man of such honesty to be treated this way is digusting. I am very v ery angry......:-x