Man has heart attack after Baliff takes him to cash machine

[tomtubby]

As you've already been quoted in national newspapers, what's the big secret to the background of the case? Is your knowledge crucial to the outcome of Jack Straw's enquiry or something?

 

 

I am unsure whether this question is addressed to me but if so, if you read my previous posts I have NOT said that there is any "BIG SECRET", what I did say is that there is more to this story.

 

As to the point is my knowledge crucial to Jack Straw's enquiry? I certainly believe that it is and a report has been sent to both JS and HMCS

[letsmakeamark]

As you've already been quoted in national newspapers, what's the big secret to the background of the case? Is your knowledge crucial to the outcome of Jack Straw's enquiry or something?

 

 

There are a lot of rules and regulations that need to be looked into as well as the track record of the company/individual involved.

[Fair-Parking]

Ostrich. I may be wrong but I read a sneer in your post. If Tomtubby says that she knows a lot more than she is prepared to reveal at the moment, then you can take it as read that she does.

 

Do not underestimate the power and influence people on this fourm have.

[heathrow]

I've written to Straw about the whole debt collecting thing and if I don't get a reasonable response it will go to the press and I will e-mail every MP in the land. It may not make a lot of difference because I agree with what Chris600uk says but we must make an effort otherwise plenty of others might die as an indirect/direct result of these thugs.

.

I personally believe that democracy in this country has been lost; our rights are rapidly being diminished by the Government and the opposition seem powerless to oppose what Brown and his cronies decide. Take the issue this week over MPs expenses that Brown wants to keep secret. What in hell's name are they afraid of? Then there is the other issue (not concerned with this thread I admit ... so sorry) about the need for Government to maintain all of our e-mails. I am certain postings on this site are under scrutiny.

 

If things continue in ths vain I believe anarchy is not too far away.

This may sound cynical but I am getting on in years and have seen the decline of this country and I don't like it.

[chris600uk]

I agree with what Chris600uk says but we must make an effort otherwise plenty of others might die as an indirect/direct result of these thugs.

 

That's absolutely true, and I hope I haven't put anyone off making the effort with my cynicism.

 

The problem seems to be the general lack of honesty in politicians, they all talk about open government and accountability, until they get into government, and then that is the very last thing they want.

 

It's almost incredible, we are governed by the people who desire power the most and tell the most credible lies - we often sneer at the obvious corruption in other countries less fortunate - but our system is exactly the same because there is no accountability or transparency - we depend on whistleblowers who pay a heavy price for their principles.

 

I personally believe that democracy in this country has been lost; our rights are rapidly being diminished by the Government and the opposition seem powerless to oppose what Brown and his cronies decide. Take the issue this week over MPs expenses that Brown wants to keep secret. What in hell's name are they afraid of?

 

We never had a democracy - this is a Kingdom, and we are subjects, you can only have citizens in a republic.

Secret Expenses! Well they are busy protecting themselves from any embarrassment and it must be embarrassing for them to want to keep it a secret.

 

Then there is the other issue (not concerned with this thread I admit ... so sorry) about the need for Government to maintain all of our e-mails. I am certain postings on this site are under scrutiny.

 

You can be certain of it - up until now there has been a cosy arrangement where the US monitored the UK public and the UK monitored the US public, then they would swap the info.

Anyone who doesn't believe it simply needs to phone a friend and say all of the key words the spooks are looking for - I won't mention them here because I don't want such attention in our currently paranoid world - I've seen what happens when our "I" services (a contradiction in terms in my view) get interested, and it leaves you with a very odd feeling of insecurity.

 

 

If things continue in ths vain I believe anarchy is not too far away.

This may sound cynical but I am getting on in years and have seen the decline of this country and I don't like it.

 

Anarchy? Personally I don't think that's possible without a catastrophic breakdown in our infrastructure - what's more likely in my view is a slow slide into an open police state which can at any time be misused, especially if a change in government lets an even worse bunch in than the lot we've currently got.

Have you listened to Question Time? It sounds like a bunch of schoolkids - they're in charge!!!!

1933 is not so long ago - they got in using the democratic process and are still politically active in their various re-constituted guises.

 

 

So paradoxically I'm glad of Jack Straw and his associates, because although my late father-in-law knew some of the "current lot" personally and would be horrified to see how weak the young men he liked and respected have turned out be - they are better than the alternative who are always waiting in the wings.

[%Ostrich%]

Ostrich. I may be wrong but I read a sneer in your post. If Tomtubby says that she knows a lot more than she is prepared to reveal at the moment, then you can take it as read that she does.

 

Do not underestimate the power and influence people on this fourm have.

 

You read it wrong, there's no sneer. I just wish she'd spit it out rather than spoon feeding us dribs and drabs. It's either alleged hearsay or fact. Which is it?

[ODC]

You read it wrong, there's no sneer. I just wish she'd spit it out rather than spoon feeding us dribs and drabs. It's either alleged hearsay or fact. Which is it?

 

Sorry but there is no legal term as Alleged Hearsay:rolleyes:

[%Ostrich%]

Neither is there one for smartass!

[JonCris]

Ostrich be advised that Tomtubby & FP are very valuable & knowledgeable members of this site particularly in the matter of bailiffs & Tomtubby does more in single day to help others being harassed by debt collectors than you will in a lifetime

 

If TT doesn't want to tell us everything yet then sobeit & as someone in the know I can say there IS a reason

 

Now if you want to know something ask your mates

[noomill060]

Neither is there one for smartass!

 

 

Allegedly.

 

[Voxter]

Im a bit lost here.......ok the bloke was 78 but he was ok to go to footy games and speed in his car.

 

now the bailiff shows up, & maybe as the bloke was old he offered him a lift to the bank......look into that what u want. was he helping or was he being pushy...who knows. Theres a lot of judgement here considering no one was there.

[tomtubby]

You read it wrong, there's no sneer. I just wish she'd spit it out rather than spoon feeding us dribs and drabs. It's either alleged hearsay or fact. Which is it?

 

Ostrich

 

Please, I have certainly NOT "spoon fed anything in dribs and drabs". This is not right. I said ONCE and ONCE ONLY that there is personally more behind this story and yes, I do have personal knowledge of this case and please do be assured that this is FACT and NOT hearsay.I will however say, that the further facts in my report to Jack Straw assist the family of Mr Miller.

 

As many of you on here know, our business works exclusively on dealing with bailiff issues and naturally that will include complaints about bailiff's and during any one day we will speak with bailiff's, their companies and various courts around the country.

 

This is an industry that is frankly very messy and unregulated and for that reason any complaints that are made from our office ( and there are plenty) are only based on factual information and NOT hearsay.

 

One final point. There are of course two sides to any story but sadly, Andy Miller is not here to give his side and I have no doubt that the bailiff and his company will say that Mr Miller suggested that the bailiff take him to the cash machine because he had only just come out of hospital/unwell/etc.

 

However.........

 

WHY did the bailiff not say " Mr Miller you are clearly unwell, you do not need me to take you to the cash machine because I can take a debit card payment" !!!!!!!!!!!!

[chris600uk]

Well you aren't alone in that view V, and I can see why.

 

To be fair to the supporters of both possible scenarios, whether we agree with one or the other (and I've made it clear which one I believe); the fact is there are good reasons why regardless of their age, and perhaps their gender, a bailiff should not be transporting people to cashpoints to collect money.

 

Either to avoid the accusation of abuse against a decent bailiff just doing his job - or to avoid the risk of abuse from one of the **** who really belong behind bars.

 

There's no way out of that, the man shouldn't have been in the bailiffs car to begin with.

[JonCris]

There is absolutely no reason why the chap should have been in the bailiffs car other than the bailiff demanded payment.

 

I understand that inquiries are ongoing & that all will be revealed in the fullness of time when no possibility of prejudice can occur

[Voxter]

Well you aren't alone in that view V, and I can see why.

 

To be fair to the supporters of both possible scenarios, whether we agree with one or the other (and I've made it clear which one I believe); the fact is there are good reasons why regardless of their age, and perhaps their gender, a bailiff should not be transporting people to cashpoints to collect money.

 

Either to avoid the accusation of abuse against a decent bailiff just doing his job - or to avoid the risk of abuse from one of the **** who really belong behind bars.

 

There's no way out of that, the man shouldn't have been in the bailiffs car to begin with.

 

totally agree that it was a bad call. I would expect any bailiff to walk away on seeing an O.A.P, disabled person etc. ruthless bailiff or lacking brains, not sure which.

[letsmakeamark]

It will end up with the bailiff company and bailiff worming out of it.

[JonCris]

You may be right letsmakeamark but lets wait & see shall we;)

[%Ostrich%]

One final point. There are of course two sides to any story but sadly, Andy Miller is not here to give his side and I have no doubt that the bailiff and his company will say that Mr Miller suggested that the bailiff take him to the cash machine because he had only just come out of hospital/unwell/etc.

 

However.........

 

WHY did the bailiff not say " Mr Miller you are clearly unwell, you do not need me to take you to the cash machine because I can take a debit card payment" !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I've read various online reports about this sorry incident and one thing has continually bugged me. Why on earth (considering his father's physical condition) did Mr Miller's son Mick send the bailiff around to his father's flat?

 

Why didn't his son deal with it on his father's behalf? I'd be damned if I'd have my elderly father dealing with a burly bailiff demanding money if he'd just come out of hospital after being in a coma.

 

Interestingly, The Sun's Killer Bailiff story seems to be the only report that possibly sheds some light on the reasons for Mick Miller actions. The Sun quoted Mick Miller as confirming it was Mr Miller himself who suggested the bailiff go with him to a cash machine.....

 

Mick, of Darwen, wrote off explaining his dad was ill but heard nothing until a bailiff calld at HIS door last week — Mr Miller’s listed address at the time of the offence.

 

Mick said: "We phoned Dad who told us to send the bailiff to his flat so they could go to a cashpoint"

 

Have The Sun incorrectly quoted Mick Miller or have all the other paper reports just failed to mention this? Are you able to shed any light on this point tomtubby or is that information classified for the moment?

 

As for why a debit card transaction wasn't suggested, maybe it was. Maybe Mr Miller, like many elderly folk, only had a cash card for the hole in the wall...??

 

Maybe the bailiff intended to pocket the extra money himself and fiddle the receipt....

 

As you say though, I'm sure the FACTS will come out eventually.

[Voxter]

lol not only did he kill the old boy, now u say he was probably on the take. well I reckon the bailiff took the son hostage in his car & sent the father to the cash machine then poked him with a cow prod. simple eh ?

[louloubella73]

lol not only did he kill the old boy, now u say he was probably on the take. well I reckon the bailiff took the son hostage in his car & sent the father to the cash machine then poked him with a cow prod. simple eh ?

 

 

 

Speculation is obviously not helpful, but due to Marstons appalling track record maybe they deserve/ should expect many to make negative assumptions of their conduct in this case.

(see my other thread of how they treated me-I know for a fact that that account is not hearsay, it's fact-they ve now had 6 copies of my complaint and haven't responded to any-they should be shut down IMHO)

 

Also, I don't think critisizing the mans son on the basis of what certainly is SPECULATION (you read it in the Sun:rolleyes:) is uncalled for-the man has lost his Father FGS, do you not think he feels bad enough- do you honestly think he would have arranged this if he knew what the outcome would be? The bailiff was the' professional' in this situation, he was the one who should have used his 'professional conduct' to assess the situation, which is why HE should be the one accountable for his actions.

[chris600uk]

I would treat anything written by the SUN with great caution - I may be scouse and therefore slightly biased against them (they still don't sell papers in this city in any great quantity after the lies they printed about Hillsborough) - but gutter journalists generally aren't really interested in the truth, which is never as newsworthy as fiction.

[louloubella73]

I would treat anything written by the SUN with great caution - I may be scouse and therefore slightly biased against them (they still don't sell papers in this city in any great quantity after the lies they printed about Hillsborough) - but gutter journalists generally aren't really interested in the truth, which is never as newsworthy as fiction.

 

 

Totally agree-I take anything written in certain comics, sorry newspapers,with a huge dose of salt.

[tomtubby]

Im a bit lost here.......ok the bloke was 78 but he was ok to go to footy games and speed in his car.

 

Reports not featured in the "red tops" have stated that Andy Miller was a season ticket holder for his local football team and he went to all home games UNTIL he collapsed and was taken to hospital. That was approx 3 months ago.

 

On the matter of speeding in his car.....the fine took place nearly 3 years ago !!

[JonCris]

I understand it was not the son who was present at the address but the grandson who is a minor.

[Audreygreeneyes]

perhaps this should also be taken into ac**** ostrich, the bailiff gets a fee for collecting..... so it is in his/her best interest to collect by any means...

 

a bailiff being kind considerate and helpful? ...

 

I totally concur with chris and if it was a member of my family I would be considering a private action against the bailiff..