Man has heart attack after Baliff takes him to cash machine

[ChrisD36]

Probe into Accrington pensioner's death after bailiff visit over speeding fine

 

8:40am Friday 16th January 2009

 

A PENSIONER collapsed and died from a heart attack after being taken to a cashpoint by a bailiff to pay an overdue speeding fine.

Justice Minister and Blackburn MP Jack Straw has ordered court bosses to launch an investigation into the death of retired pub landlord Andy Miller.

The family of Mr Miller, 78, of Accrington, have told of their anger that a bailiff was sent to his house, saying it would have put him under ‘incredible duress’.

Mr Miller had been released from a two-month stay in hospital a fortnight before after suffering a heart attack at Ewood Park before a Blackburn Rovers game.

His son, Mick, 48, said the family had written to the court to explain why Mr Miller had not paid the overdue £60 speeding fine for an offence committed on the M55.

But Blackpool magistrates still gave permission for the bailiff to go to his home in India Street, Accrington.

The court also added on £290 to what Mr Miller owed in court costs.

The official went round on January 7 and asked Mr Miller, a former landlord of the Cabin End pub in Knuzden, to visit a cashpoint and pay the fine, his family said.

Father-of-five Mr Miller was driven to Accrington town centre. The bailiff parked up and waited for Mr Miller, but he collapsed in Union Street before he reached a cashpoint.

Coroner Michael Singleton has ruled out an inquest, because tests had found Mr Miller died of natural causes as a result of heart problems, officials said.

His son Mick said he wanted answers from court bosses as their letter told them his father was suffering from memory loss and confusion.

Mick, who lives in Lower Darwen, said: “Bailiffs should not be allowed to behave like this.

“Dad was put under incredible duress.

“I know how nervous he had been and what a strain this would have been on him.”

Mr Miller’s nephew Steve Flanigan, 61, added: ”He was by himself when it happened. I can’t help but think that if I had been there it would have been a very different story.

“The visit must have been such a shock, because most people don’t know what their rights are. When someone is there on your doorstep, can you just tell them to go away? Do you have to do what they say? Most people just wouldn’t know.”

Police said CCTV cameras showed Mr Miller walking alone to various points in the town centre, shortly before he collapsed.

Officers who had been patrolling nearby were at his side within minutes and attempted to resuscitate him. Police later interviewed the bailiff, who made himself known to officers.

Sergeant Graham Brownsmith said it was ‘clearly a tragic incident’.

Greg Pope, Hyndburn MP, said he was so concerned by the case that he brought it to the attention of Mr Straw who ordered the investigation.

He said: “There are many things about this case which require an answer. Why didn't the court service take into account that Mr Miller was in poor health? There needs to be some sort of answer to that question and I hope the court service will come forward and do that.”

A spokesman for the Her Majesty's Courts Service said they could not comment fully due to the investigation but added: “We would like to offer our sincere condolences to Mr Miller’s family. We will report back to them.”

Mr Straw: "Greg Pope got in touch with me and we have arranged for an investigation to take place. We await the outcome."

Mr Miller’s family said that before his illness he had been suffering money problems - which they believe may have been why he had not paid the speeding fine - and had been working as a cleaner in a bid to make ends meet.

After a heart attack on October 25, the former Blackburn town centre, Barrow and Knuzden pub landlord suffered a stroke and was in a coma for 10 days.

He was allowed home on Christmas Eve, his birthday, to spend the festive season with his family.

 

 

This was taken from the Lancashire Telegraph (my local paper).

[kiptower]

words fail me on this, lets hope the family dont get fobbed off

[paulson1985]

Absolutly disgusting.

 

This just goes to show what is happening in our society.

 

The whole thing stinks.

 

So wrong,

I hope this bailiff gets what is his due. and the people who employ him as well.

[chris600uk]

No it's not acceptable.

 

The bailiffs astonishing behaviour would have had a traumatic effect upon a fit and healthy person, the family will be torn apart by this, and some people might never come to terms with the mindless pettiness that in my view lead to Mr Millers death.

I believe the bailiff is directly responsible for this, it must have been obvious that he was dealing with a very sick and elderly man.

 

In this case the bailiff is very fortunate that that wasn't my relative. He would have good reason to regret his actions because I doubt that I would be able to help myself, I'm not sure I could rest until he'd paid for his actions, and if I served on a jury, I would acquit anyone who took the law into their own hands under these circumstances.

 

My reaction may sound extreme - but just try to imagine the sense of powerlessness and humiliation Mr Miller will have gone through, and the fear that the bailiff will have put in him to force him to go with him to a cash point.

 

And if anyone still has doubts - imagine being scared into going with a criminal who forces you to take money out of a cashpoint, and then imagine what would happen if you were old and ill, with a damaged heart.

Kidnap, demanding money with menaces and robbery, leading to the death of the victim.........

 

What is justice then?

[paulson1985]

Originally posted by Chris600uk

 

In this case the bailiff is very fortunate that that wasn't my relative. He would have good reason to regret his actions because I doubt that I would be able to help myself, I'm not sure I could rest until he'd paid for his actions, and if I served on a jury, I would acquit anyone who took the law into their own hands under these circumstances.

 

Ditto to that

[ambershadow]

OMG they Just Don't care do they? And how awful for his family.

 

THIS HAS TO STOP WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES

[ohoh4312]

Absolutely tragic - I was in tears reading this.

 

That lowlife must be totally amoral - there is no other way you could live with yourself after causing a death.

 

The poor family must be beside themselves - my heart goes out to them.

 

As for the ******, I'd rip his heart out.

[MARTIN3030]

Absolutely shocking.

 

 

BBC NEWS | England | Lancashire | Man dies during visit by bailiff

[Angry98]

That was almost me today, myself and two kids were made to go pretty much. Laws need looking at with regards to them.

[MARTIN3030]

Jack Straw has ordered investigation-so there wont be any cover ups.Wonder who the Baliffs are ?

[paulson1985]

Absolutly disgusting see hear as well

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/178041-acceptable.html

[MARTIN3030]

Sorry Chris-did not see your earlier thread.Have merged the 2.

[%Ostrich%]

This is undoubtedly a very sad story. However, reading the comments so far I'm amazed at how many folk from this forum were present on the day and did nothing. I know many who frequent here are blinkered when it comes to bailiffs but this is already turning into a witch hunt before the true facts are known.

 

While there is every possibility the bailiff behaved as most on here would expect, there's also every possibility the bailiff simply knocked on the chaps door, asked for the money in a polite manner and the chap agreed to pay. Maybe the chap said he'd have to go to a cash point and the bailiff offered to drive him to save him walking. Maybe the bailiff was completely unaware of the man's condition.

 

When did the man's family write to the Courts? A month before the bailiff visited? a week? a day? who knows. The reporter didn't see fit to mention. Did the letter even get there? who knows..

 

The reporter doesn't even seem to be able to get her facts straight about the fees. She reports the "Court" added a further "£290" to the original £60 fine. If I'm not mistaken Marstons collect HMCS court fines in Lancashire and their website quotes a maximum of £225 fees in relation to this type of debt making a total of £285.....

 

Lets comment on facts not pure blinkered speculation.

 

Maybe this is just a sad chain of events which ended in tragedy for the man in question and his family.

[ambershadow]

Most people on this forum have replied as they have been treated and not only this forum But I have read on other forums where the Bailiffs have taken the person to the cash point machine to get their money. And to be honest from what I have read Bailiffs will say and do anything to get their money.

 

No THE FACTS AREN'T OUT But everyones entittled to their own opinions on how they have been treated and I have to say I bet this case is no different.

 

 

 

Another thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/178107-help-needed-baliff-just.html followed to the cash point machine.

 

Absolutley outrageous

[chris600uk]

You may be right, but I don't believe it, anyone who has has a stroke and spent time in a coma, and has a heart problem, and has spent time in hospital doesn't look well, the guy was 78 years old - and when we get to that age we need to be treated with a bit of care.

 

As for your possible scenario of nice helpful bailiff giving an OAP a lift - well it's vaguely possible, but I don't believe it for a minute.

Anyway, bailiffs have no business taking people to cash points, or following people to cashpoints.

[ambershadow]

HERE HERE Chris

[Ell-enn]

Anyway, bailiffs have no business taking people to cash points, or following people to cashpoints.

 

Absolutely right Chris - it most certainly shouldn't be allowed:mad:

[kiptower]

that the bottom line why was he taken to the cash machine,

 

a good bailiff , about as true as the tooth fairy

[chris600uk]

Lets comment on facts not pure blinkered speculation.

 

Maybe this is just a sad chain of events which ended in tragedy for the man in question and his family.

 

Os, that's all anyone has got because the dead man can't tell us his side.

We have to make assumptions based on our knowledge of human behaviour, we are all experts in that respect because we are all human.

[%Ostrich%]

Absolutely right Chris - it most certainly shouldn't be allowed:mad:

 

Get real Ell-enn, the bailiff was there to collect money, if the chap had offered to pay it and was offered a lift, the bailiff is not likely to tell the chap to walk while he waits outside his house for an hour....

[kia]

saw this story on tv tonight im disgusted anyone could behave like that to a pensioner and a very sick man at that and i dont agree that he wouldnt have known he was ill anyone in there right mind nows when someone is confused as he obviuosly was id be mortified if this happened to my father xkia

[lamb to the slaughter]

well what do you know, yes im a bit miffed with some bailiffs and some of their actions but they ARE NOT all the same no matter how much some on this forum like to portray them.

 

ostrich im with you on this one, most posters are summising as they do on this forum, afterall this is in my opinion a bailiff bashing forum, just the same i guess as a bailiff forum full of bailiffs would be a non payers bashing forum so im not going to knock it!!

 

there are always 2 sides to a story though and im just reiterating that we have only heard one side so before all in sundry go blaming the bailiff give it some thought!!!

 

the other thing that surprises me is no-one has even thought about the fact that the bailiff was acting on a court issued warrant/order and doing his her job as paid to do, but its all the bailiffs fault isn't it!!!!!!!

 

yeah ok i feel the bailiff should have possibly returned the case as gent was clearly elderly but what if it was just as ostrich says and the gent said yeah ok i owe it i will get the money, guess only time will tell.

 

now i shall await the pm's from site admin as they dont like posters that have a difference of opinion, i shall get me coat.

[Ell-enn]

Ostrich I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it, but the fact remains the bailiff had no business taking the man in his car to a cash machine (is he insured for that?). He should have made an arrangement to call back when the guy had got a member of his family to either get the money or contact the court.

 

At the end of the day, the bailiff should have known better - the man was obviously vulnerable being 78 years of age and unwell. No matter that he was "only doing his job" the bailiff should have exercised his discretion instead of concentrating of getting his fee as soon as possible. If he is unable to recognise such a situation he should not be doing the job.

 

Recognising the difference between "can't pay" and "won't pay" should be a key skill for the job.

[chris600uk]

Os, lets go with you a little way down that road and imagine that the bailiff popped round whistling as he walks up the path, and cheerily said,

 

B:Hi Mr Miller, just come for your fines money, rotten weather isn't it.

 

M says: Oh yes I've been waiting for you, look I've got to go to the cashpoint in the town centre, could you be so kind and wait.

 

B says: Why don't I give you a lift and save you the walk, it's awfully cold Mr M.

 

M: You are a kind lad, yes lets do that.

 

Now do tell...........

[cadencealex]

I wonder if the Bailliff had a good old rummage in the poor mans pockets before the police turned up to rescuscitate him.

 

Why was he driving the man to the cash machine?!

 

Was it because, as his son said, he was too poorly and confused to drive himself?