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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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problems with halifax


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s61 CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner....

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello , i have read this thread with great interest, I have just received the same application / agreement back following a CCA , but the terms and conditions have not been photocopied on the back of the application/agreement but were sent on different sheets.................

Maybe they have decided this trick no longer works?

 

thanks

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Sussex

 

Have a look at my post 24 on my link:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/184068-halifax-credit-card-cca-2.html

 

another cagger was sent the cca with the terms photocopied on the back....whenhe went to court he said Halifix produced the original cca and t & cs as seperate documents ....i think we could safely assume the originals are not on the same a4 document

 

any thoughts and how are you progressing?

 

allthe best

 

Fingers

The Story So Far...

 

Barclaycard - Fingers Vs Barclaycard

Egg - Egg Credit Card CCA Agreement - help

Halifax - Halifax Credit card CCA

IF - CCA received

Lloyds - Lloyds CCA

MBNA-CCA received, challening

Virgin - Virgin Card CCA May 2006 - Help Required

 

OH Barccard - 2 s78 letters, on 2nd cpr

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Hi sorry for lack of updates, have been off line for one reason or another

 

i chose to say to Halifax again that what they have sent is not enforceable as there is no referance to the terms and they have now said it is a true copy of front and back.

 

in addition

 

As posted by Davey77, I copied his comment re thelack of signature.

 

They replied saying their legal team do not believe i have suffered any detriment from them not signing it and does not mean its totally unenforecable.

 

I have replied asking them to clarify why S61 CCA signing of agreement does not aply to their company. That was around a month ago and I have heard nothing more.

Edited by sussex1
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on thinking about this case, i suppose the ideal thing would be that they now terminate the account given that the default notice issued in Oct 08 was wrong and i can then end things once and for all.

 

Is the fact it is now 6 months since this was issued and they still haven't done anything an indication they know they are in the wrong?

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on thinking about this case, i suppose the ideal thing would be that they now terminate the account given that the default notice issued in Oct 08 was wrong and i can then end things once and for all.

 

Is the fact it is now 6 months since this was issued and they still haven't done anything an indication they know they are in the wrong?

 

Hi Sussex nice to see you back,,I totally agree with you,My default notice was sent jan 2008 giving me only 6 days to pay so i know the default is invalid,,ive not payed halifax for a yr, have the same CCA has u with diff Terms on the reverse,surely they would of up the stakes by now if they had anything to play on :)

 

And thanks milly thats intresting stuff x

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Hi Fingers I have been reading a Consumer Law book by John Keith Mcleod , barrister, professor of law, 2002 Edition, that applies to agreements of this age. This is copyrighted so am unable to paste the text, but will attempt a fair explanation.

 

To clarify concerning 61(a) of the CCA 1974:

 

This section clearly requires that a regulated agreement including a credit token agreement must comply with the following requirements;

 

1. it must be in the prescribed form as to the Agreement Regulations.

 

2. On the SAME side as the signatures, the document itself must containt the terms prescribed in the agreement regulations (reg 6(1)):

the credit limit, the rate of interest and a term stating how the financial obligations of the debtor is discharged and these must be stated together as a whole that will ensure that the larger list is included in the actual agreement rather than any document referred to in it.

The regulation makes it clear that the abscence of these terms takes an agreement outside the dispensing power of the court.

 

 

Now to explain what S61(b) means:

 

the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than the implied terms.

 

This section requires that the regulated agreement contains or refers to all the express terms of the agreement ( NOT THE PRESCRIBED TERMS!!) the T&C's.

 

Now to go further:

 

This is called the required terms and it is these terms (and NOT the PRESCRIBED TERMS) that are what is referred to on the NON-SIGNATURE side (the reverse) this is to COMPLY with S.189(4) 'embodies' the terms required by the Agreement regulations so that they must either be in the agreement OR in adocument referred to in it.

 

 

So there you go the PRESCRIBED TERMS MUST BE ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE SIGNATURES. If the agreement refers to anything 'overleaf' tehn it is referring to basically T&C's.

 

Milly X

 

 

MMM, might be a good idea to run this past some of the guys on the consumer credit agreement thread. I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding the "four corners".

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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MMM, might be a good idea to run this past some of the guys on the consumer credit agreement thread. I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding the "four corners".

 

 

Okey Dokey. I checked out this barrister and he was sitting chair of Law till 2005 at University of liverpool, The thing I would like to ask is why he says on the same side of the siganture . I am trying to find him on the net atthe mo as he MUST have proof of this being a Barrister.

 

Milly XX

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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What a fantastic thread. I am experiencing the same sort of thing but Halifax have sold my debt on and assigned it to the lovely 1st Credit!!! I have a thread running about it but I received a letter from 1st Credit yesterday and one paragraph states:

 

"We have noted your comments regarding section 127(3) however this legislation has been repealed by the CCA 2006 c.14 sch4 Para1 in Court. Therefore should this case be taken to court we would adhere to the Judges discretion."

 

 

Has anybody else heard of this???? They also make reference that I should seek advice from a regulated body not an unregulated debt forum on the internet!!!!

 

My thead is 1st Credit / Halifax CCA Response Help!

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What a fantastic thread. I am experiencing the same sort of thing but Halifax have sold my debt on and assigned it to the lovely 1st Credit!!! I have a thread running about it but I received a letter from 1st Credit yesterday and one paragraph states:

 

"We have noted your comments regarding section 127(3) however this legislation has been repealed by the CCA 2006 c.14 sch4 Para1 in Court. Therefore should this case be taken to court we would adhere to the Judges discretion."

 

 

Has anybody else heard of this???? They also make reference that I should seek advice from a regulated body not an unregulated debt forum on the internet!!!!

 

My thead is 1st Credit / Halifax CCA Response Help!

 

Funny I have been to court and the judge said that the 2006 CCA amendments were not retrospective, so I would say as normal 1st crud talking through another orifice.

 

dpick

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What a fantastic thread. I am experiencing the same sort of thing but Halifax have sold my debt on and assigned it to the lovely 1st Credit!!! I have a thread running about it but I received a letter from 1st Credit yesterday and one paragraph states:

 

"We have noted your comments regarding section 127(3) however this legislation has been repealed by the CCA 2006 c.14 sch4 Para1 in Court. Therefore should this case be taken to court we would adhere to the Judges discretion."

 

 

Has anybody else heard of this???? They also make reference that I should seek advice from a regulated body not an unregulated debt forum on the internet!!!!

 

My thead is 1st Credit / Halifax CCA Response Help!

 

This is true, however, what they have failed to tell you is that it isnt retrospective so any account opened BEFORE that regulation was changed is not subject to the changes

 

18. In addition it is drawn to the courts attention that schedule 3, s11 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 prevents s15 repealing s127 (3) of the 1974 Act for agreements made before s15 came into effect since the agreement is alleged to have commenced in xx/xx/xxx the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is the relevant act in this case should it be suggested that this agreement comes under the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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subbing and will read the whole thread later as i have a few questions myself, maybe will find the answers in this thread otherwise will shout

 

have fun laters angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

After a second request, Bank of Scotland have finally supplied a copy of the signed Priority Agreement, dated 16 Feb, 2000. They now want the full amount by 5th May! I don't know what else I'm meant to look for on that form, so it looks like they've got me.

 

I really need advice on what to do and what could happen next!

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Flyboy.. can you post the application form up on your thread. (scan or take a photo).

 

Minus personal details.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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They are a bit small to read... can you use photobucket. Bigger that way.

 

Also, do you have your own thread for this account. Better to post them up there or start a new thread on the subject.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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They are a bit small to read... can you use photobucket. Bigger that way.

 

Also, do you have your own thread for this account. Better to post them up there or start a new thread on the subject.

 

Thanks, I do have my own thread. Just keeping tabs on others that may be useful.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/188216-dca-heavy-handed-over-3.html

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