Re: Distressing phone call from MBNA

[sunflower99]

[sunflower99]

well that all the various parts of the cca we photographed sent!

[Goldlady]

Is there a date on the t&cs? Usually bottom left corner showing when they were printed.

[sunflower99]

Hi Goldlady!Me and hubby looked through all the t and cs but we can not find any date when they were printed,The only dates i can see is the date stamped on page i signed and the date of my signaturs but no dates printed in any of the t and c sheets showing when they were printed as far as we can see.

Edited September 20, 2008 by sunflower99

[Goldlady]

I wonder if they are starting to get clever..... You said that there was part of the original form that showed the credit limit - is there anything showing the interest rate - the signed form you have posted is extremely basic.

 

On the balance of probabilities I am still going for unenforceable. How much is the alleged debt, and how much of that is charges?

[sunflower99]

Hi Goldlady! Thanks for giving me help witht looking at this CCA.I am very grateful for all the help you are giving me.This CCa business is a nightmare !t the print is so small that it is difficult to read easily and see terms and interest clearly! I dont think there is any interest rates at all on front basic form i signed in the bit of it we can both seeOn back picture of what is supposed to be on back of it there is a table of interest ratesfor various credit limits.On the bit on left of front of form i signed which hubby missed when photographing is just my name and address a bar code! a credit ref number and a credit limint stating £1500 whiich was my starting credit limit when i accepted card and afterwards a little box with some writing in it which is difficult to read but says i have accepted the card and that all information given is correct to best of my knowledge and i have received my copy of terms and conditions,The attached seperate unsigned pages again have all the information that would be accepted in a typical CCA agreement giving various interest rates for various transactions and how long to pay them off! and terms of 1974 credit act etc,Sorry i am a bit of a dunce at this sort of thing! so not very confident with looking at his cca!Would it help if i rescanned everyhing and put it up again tommorrow,My husband got our old scanner in today and has hopefully got it working ok for moment so maybe i will be able to rescan it and see if i can at least get all the pages to come up a liitle clearer!I would do it now but my brains stoped functioning now and i feel exhausted! I spent all day at work worrying about his cca and if they would be able to enforce debt and i think ive tired my self out with just pure worry!so perhaps i will feel better able to have another go at it after a nights sleep!I think most of my debt owed to them is mainly the debt plus their horrendous interest charges they insist on adding as i have only just started geeting into bad arrears with them over last 3 months or so. .My last few statments show charges of £24 per month for being over limit and late payment! I will private message you with amount i owe!I have never done a subject request on them .Thanks again for all your help i am very grateful! By the way my RMA DCA did not turn up!LOL but have got door locked just in case!Thanks for you and other people putting my mind at rest about their bullying tactics!When they say call they automatically expect you to think they want to call at door! LOL At least thanks to this wonderful forum i was not intimidated by their friendly postcard!

Edited September 19, 2008 by sunflower99

[PossVox]

You are doing fine.

 

Try to relax and rest. It's really difficult, I know, but many people on this site who are trying to help you have, at some point, felt the same way that you do right now.

 

You're in very fine company.You'll soon realise that these bullies can be beaten.

 

Keep us posted and you'll get even more great advice and support.

 

PV

Edited September 19, 2008 by PossVox
Horrendous grammar!

[Goldlady]

I am pleased you are beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I was in the same situation myself about two years ago and actually lay on the bedroom floor for an hour once when someone knocked at the door:eek:. Fortunately since I discovered CAG I have realised that these people try to intimidate and even though I am still a little scared to answer the phone I am much better and I can now answer the door. I am 47 years old - can you imagine being scared like that? Yes I am sure you can.....

 

The amount involved will have some bearing on how much pressure they will put on you. However from what you have told me and what I have seen I think the agreement is unenforceable. What now matters is now much more you can take. I have fought off three unenforceable agreements in court - well actually it was debatable whether they were or not - but I stood my ground and in all three cases they backed off.

[sunflower99]

Hi Goldlady and Possvox! Thanks for everything and all the excellant advice help and moral support you have given me!,I was feeling very low today and was not looking foward to weekend knowing it was going to be full of worry ! but your friendly advice and moral support have made me feel a bit better and more hopeful again and i might even be able to have some sort of nice weekend!Thanks to you i will now be able to get a good nights sleep now and might actually be able to tell myself to stop worrying for a while! It is so exhausting worrying all the time so nice to be able to rest for a while now! Thanks again!

Edited September 20, 2008 by sunflower99

[berrylover]

Don't worry, we will be able to help you here. It sometimes just takes a while to get there. I am almost certain this isnt a valid CCA, but I need to check out a few more things. Please don't worry and if anyone calls on you ignore them.

[Goldlady]

This is the law bit about a valid cca:

 

What are ‘prescribed terms’?

 

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

 

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

 

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

 

 

Enjoy the weekend:p

[sunflower99]

Hi Goldlady thanks for the information about CCAs!I am learning such a lot on this forum and thanks for giving me some hope!When i first received that CCA i was so dismayed they found one as i thought for a while it was senforceable and i suppose most people who have not much knowledge about fiance law and not had the luck to come across this wonderful site would have seen that CCA and just though they have got an enforceable one i will have to pay them evey penny ive got and let them blackmail me with threats!i suppose MBNA depend on the fact that most people have no real knowledge of CCAs and think they can be fobbed of by anything!and think they have won just by sending me this! They must hate sites like this that put people right about things!I have decided to have a nice relaxing couple of days and enjoy my weekend and then go back to worrying about CCA on monday and have another go at transmitting it again!when i am feeling a bit more rested i got myself so worked up worrying about this CCA that it will probably do me good to shut my brain down for a while and try and chill out! Thanks again for all your help!

[sunflower99]

HI Berrylover possvox andGoldlady thanks for all your help and looking at my CCA,It will be lovely if it does turn out to be an unenforceable one!Even to my inexperienced eye and lack of knowledge about financial law when i had a chance to look at it properly i eventually realised after getting over my initial panic about receiving one that it could be a dodgy one as it is very bitty and no proof that all those papers they put together are connected to orginal agreement!I am keeping my door locked now!What a mean thing to do sending a postcard like that I suppose it is another low trick they do to try and embaress and humiliate people,as really that communication should be made private and put in an evenvelope not on a postcard where all the local postmen and other people in household can see i am in serious debt,i am fast learning that these DCAs do not make much attempt to stick OFts guidance for fair and legal debt collection practices!

[Goldlady]

They will try all sorts. I once had a card handed to me by the postie which said 'we called at your house today'. Oops - that scare tactic went a bit wrong:D

[sunflower99]

HI Gpldlady possvox Berrylover and everbodyelse interested in this thread and helping me! Tommorrow I will have another go at using scanner and seeing if i can rescan all the pages of this CCA and try and see if they come up clearer!It is a nightmare trying to read it as the writing is very small particulary on what is supposed to be on front signed part and back form,These banks dont make things very easy by insisiting on putting such small print on these CCAs! The main thing that worries me is what is supposed to be on back of the front signed form.As i said before it is only MBNA s say so that that is what is on back of form! but if it turns out that seconnd pic i put up is something which turns up to be actually on back of this very basic looking short form and not a ruse by MBNA to make out it is where do i stand then?The second part seems to have some sort of table of interest rates for various balances paid!i have been reading quite a few threads about other peoples CCA s and thought i saw one that said that the T and C s should all be showing on front of signed CCA and all part of the same signed page??But then i am a bit of a dunce about fiancial things.and probably got wrong end of stick! LOl i am learning quite a lot though i did not realise that if you manage to get away with out paying a unsecured debt for over six years it had to be written of by crediter and was then illegal to chase someone for that old debt!A lot of the CCAs i saw on display seemed to be quite often on a very large page with most relevant t and cs above signed bit not a very short scrap of paper which they say is mine! but i am probably wrong as my head was spinning with all the information! In the end i started reading through that thread of cheekiness to DCAs .which always cheers me up and helps me to get the phone calls and antics of DCAs more into perspective!

[sunflower99]

Hi everyone interested in this thread!MBNA favorite DCAS RMA have been giving me a lot of grief over the phone lately.Though my husband has not answered the phonne and ive maged to avoid speaking to them by not answering the calls from them either,Apparently they have started to ring my work place lot lately,One day my boss called me into his office and said that he had received over ten phone callsthat day from RMA trying to speak to me which is outrageous .They are seriously breaking oft guidlines and that is definitly illegal harresement!As at each phone call my boss firmly told him that he and i did wish me to receive private phone calls at my place of work and to stop.In spite of this he said that they complrty ignored this still countinued to ring that same day day in spite of a verbal request from my boss to stop.When i manage to get down to post office i will be posting the telephone harrasement letter both to them and to MBNA by recorded delivery.If they still persist i will have to report them to some one as this degree of telephone harrasement is outrageous.At least my boss and work colleagues who have taken calls from RMA and MBNA will back me up as witnesses to this telephone harrasement at work.NO one will get any money if they make me loose my job over this.My boss says he will write to them as well to tell them to stop so at least he is being supportive over this.They also sent me postcard threatening they are going to call lbut at least this lovely forum put me right about this tactic and say that the call means a phone call not a door step visit though they obviously are trying to scare people into thinking it is a doorstep visit!LOL.Well the door is kept locked and we dont answer door so they will not have much luck! LOL.I got my CCA from MBNA and posted it on new thread and some lovely people on it gave me advice about photo buket and advice about CCA.Goldlady thinks that there is a good probability that it may be unenforceable as the whole aggreement is vey bittySo i am just hopeing now!

[hellhasnofury]

Hi everyone interested in this thread!MBNA favorite DCAS RMA have been giving me a lot of grief over the phone lately.Though my husband has not answered the phonne and ive maged to avoid speaking to them by not answering the calls from them either,Apparently they have started to ring my work place lot lately,One day my boss called me into his office and said that he had received over ten phone callsthat day from RMA trying to speak to me which is outrageous .They are seriously breaking oft guidlines and that is definitly illegal harresement!As at each phone call my boss firmly told him that he and i did wish me to receive private phone calls at my place of work and to stop.In spite of this he said that they complrty ignored this still countinued to ring that same day day in spite of a verbal request from my boss to stop.When i manage to get down to post office i will be posting the telephone harrasement letter both to them and to MBNA by recorded delivery.If they still persist i will have to report them to some one as this degree of telephone harrasement is outrageous.At least my boss and work colleagues who have taken calls from RMA and MBNA will back me up as witnesses to this telephone harrasement at work.NO one will get any money if they make me loose my job over this.My boss says he will write to them as well to tell them to stop so at least he is being supportive over this.They also sent me postcard threatening they are going to call lbut at least this lovely forum put me right about this tactic and say that the call means a phone call not a door step visit though they obviously are trying to scare people into thinking it is a doorstep visit!LOL.Well the door is kept locked and we dont answer door so they will not have much luck! LOL.I got my CCA from MBNA and posted it on new thread and some lovely people on it gave me advice about photo buket and advice about CCA.Goldlady thinks that there is a good probability that it may be unenforceable as the whole aggreement is vey bittySo i am just hopeing now!

 

Hello Sunflower,

 

Hey look on the bright side, aren't they giving you a lovely harassment case against them. I hope you are documenting every call date and time and place, I did send a letter to mbna's cheif executive holding him responsible for everything. Keep your chin up. Mnba are a bunch of bullies, who when you point out the serious unlawful error of their breaches, retreat and sell the account to a dca. and this may add more lovely fuel to your fire:grin:

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Sunflower,

 

I agee with Goldlady regarding the ca. Although I cannot read the ca clearly, On the actual agreement, does it state the credit limit, interest rate and rate of payments

 

On credit agreement regulated under the cca, the prescribed terms, must be embodied in the actual agreement.

 

Does it state application form anywhere?

[angel_1]

hello Sunflower

 

i did have a good weekend, the sun was shining and that always helps doesnt it

 

im really sorry about your calls from the nasty RMA, but like hellasnofury says, keep logging down the calls, like id said before in a previous post do get your boss now to write to them directly this will all help your case for harrassment, they are really a nasty bunch of muppets

 

i had to do a firm letter too, so good luck, am going to have a look at your other thread re the cca you received im awaiting on mine again as ive told them not good enough what they sent me

 

anyway keep happy at least you have found us here to help you so we are here always for you take care ciao for now laters maz

[angel_1]

hiya Sunflower and everybody helping you

 

fab help you have had and are still having

 

will subscribe to the thread as im on the war path with mbna too

 

anyway i agree with everything that has been said by everyone, dont worry and keep coming back for us to help you and your hubby

 

take care im off to do learn and register about the site you were given also ref the downloads of pics etc

 

ciao for now laters maz

[Fred Bassett]

That's bloody outrageous. It's about time this was reported to the police.

 

Fred

[sunflower99]

Hi Hellhasnofury!I sent you as a private message most of a copy of an e mail i sent Goldlady trying to describe more about my CCA and difficulties i had scanning it! in answer to this message though there is a credit limit of £1500 on front of the signed portion of agreement just above that there is a credit reference number above reference number a bar code and above bar code my name and adress,All this is on the left side of signed page which unfortunatly my husband missed when photographing CCA.I can not see any mention of form being actually being called a application form though but here is this-,Below the stated credit ref number there is a little box with printed request saying these words-Please issue an MBNA credit card to me and if applicable to the person i have named as an additional card holder.i confirm that the information given is true and complete.i have received a copy of and agree to be bond by the mbna credit card Terms and conditions and i understand that i am responsible for paying any balances due on my credit card account.i understand that MBNA reserves the right to issue a Gold or a standard card which will have a lower credit limit.i consent to the data on this application form being transferred to the USA for processing.----- oh it may be an application form after all lol now i copied that box info! LOL I am very confused!and copying that box is a good eye sight test!now no idea if it is an application form or CCA!

Edited September 24, 2008 by sunflower99

[sunflower99]

Hi Hellhasnofury Goldlady and everbody helping me make sense of this CCA !I will now carry on describing other things on this front signed portion of CCA! in column next to my name address barcode credit limit and box with writing in it the next bit goes on about the data protection and a box about right to cancel and third column talks about payment protection cover and ive ticked no .Below that there is a box about important data proctection.and boxes abut how i agree to be contacted.and my signature.At bottom of this form it does say This -This is a credit Agreement regulated by the consumer credit Act 1974 Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms and after that my signature again.Top of form it says-signature form-sign and return today underneath this it says credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 issued by MBNA europe bank limited and banks address and asking me to sign form below.There is no mention of interest rates in this front signed portion.

[sunflower99]

Hi Hellhasnofury Goldlady and other people intrested in this thread if i have not bored you to death by now! LOL i will now proced to try and tell you about the second pic which MBNA implys is on the back of this agreement but this is only on MBNA say so!It does have various interest rates stated on it for various transactions and cash trnsaction.The rest of the agreement were 3 seperate pages of papers which have all the terms an condition of a typical, CCA including interest on various transactions times it takes to pay it off etc etc but as they are not joined to signed part of CCA there no proof that they are part of the original terms and conditions of the original CCA as they could easily have been bundled in with signed form!I hope all this has been some help for people trying to decide if this is a proper or enforceable cca.I think this ccas image will permenantly be in my brain ive been studying it so much this week! LOLWhen i got to sleep tonight that will be all i can see is this CCA ! LOl Thanks again for all the help you are giving me!

[sunflower99]

Hi Maz Hope you got on alright with site and got downloads of pics ok,Thanks for moral support.I am still a bit confused about this CCA it does have some interest rates and repayment times and prescribed terms on what MBNA says is back of it and other pages but not sure how i stand though as i dont know if all those Terms and conditions have to be on same side and page as the signed bit!or whether it is still enforceable to have rest of agreement on unsigned back page or seperate pages as it is only on MBNAs sayso that that second image is really what is on back of signed page and as for other papers bundled in with rest of agreement there is no proof that they were part of original agreement,All a bit of a headache!I hope you manage to beat MBNA as well!