Re: Distressing phone call from MBNA

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Sunflower,

 

Thanks for your pm, you have told me that you have again looking at your documents from mbna. The unsigned credit agreement and a copy of what they state is on the back of the ca. You mention that their is no information regarding penalty fees for going over your limit, late payment charges or default fees. Is this correct?????

You tell me that the t&c they sent you with your supposed credit agreement, and on another piece of paper you inform me that the penalty fees are £12, which is in line with the office of fair trading's ruling. This ruling was in 2006 and you tell me that you opened your account in 2002, so these terms and conditions are not applicable to your credit agreement.

 

I would be of a mind to thank them for sending their current t&c, but you wish to be supplied with the t & C pertainent to your credit agreement:grin:

 

Any veiws guys

[car2403]

Hello Sunflower,

 

Thanks for your pm, you have told me that you have again looking at your documents from mbna. The unsigned credit agreement and a copy of what they state is on the back of the ca. You mention that their is no information regarding penalty fees for going over your limit, late payment charges or default fees. Is this correct?????

You tell me that the t&c they sent you with your supposed credit agreement, and on another piece of paper you inform me that the penalty fees are £12, which is in line with the office of fair trading's ruling. This ruling was in 2006 and you tell me that you opened your account in 2002, so these terms and conditions are not applicable to your credit agreement.

 

I would be of a mind to thank them for sending their current t&c, but you wish to be supplied with the t & C pertainent to your credit agreement:grin:

 

Any veiws guys

 

Which you can do using this letter;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form and your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[sunflower99]

Hi Car.I sent MBNA a copy of that letter by recorded delivery So just waiting for their response to it,Thanks

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower99

 

Yes, that's a brill letter to send MBNA.

There probably say that they have complied but don't worry, just resend the letter again which Car2403 put up.

That will keep them busy .

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi Hellhasnofury!

Yes i keep trawling through that MBNA CCA! with my specs on trying to read that micrscopic print on signed part and what is supposed to be on back of it but definitly no sign of an over the limit charge or a default charge on that part just the seperate bundle of papers not joined to signed page which were just bundled in with it !so this omission on signed portion and what they say is the back of it makes it more likely they have fudged it up them!I have heard on some threads that you can cite something called cpr 16.7 before court case or cpr31.14 during court case to force them to show original cca in court i beleive? saw when looking up on internet about unenforceable ccas.

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza! That MBNA CCA is permenantly embedded in my brain now!All i can see now it that CCA! i think i have dreams about it! LOL I was looking at my thread about distressing calls from MBNA !just before i turned in and then had a nightmare in my sleep about getting a nasty strange phone call from someone! LOLi was very releived when i woke up!LOLYes it probably will be a good idea to keep sending beggars that letter every month! LOL

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower99

 

Nightmares :eek:

 

Gaz

[emmaf01]

At least MBNA tried to hash something together!

 

Capital One just said "Thank you for your request for a copy of your executed credit credit agreement. Please find enclosed a copy of the current terms and conditions of your agreement, in compliance with section 78 of the CCA 1974."

 

I'm so shocked by their barefaced cheek I haven't been able to compose a letter yet!

[sunflower99]

Hi Emaf0l! I got a cca from Capital one as well!Which was just like yours i would imagine! i started a thread about it called received capital one CCA or what they call a CCA! basically like you it was just a letter stating their current terms and conditions! The day after i received their rubbish CCA! i got a default notice from them! so now wondering if they are trying to get rid of me and pass buck onto another DCA as they know they have not got an enforceable agreement!So you managed to get something of them as you were having trouble with them pretending they did not get your CCA request! LOL.What are you going to do next? Are you sending them a letter saying that that is not a valid CCA?

Edited October 18, 2008 by sunflower99

[sunflower99]

Hi Gaz! Yes nightmares!Before i turn in tonight id better watch a nice comedy or relaxing film! and try not look at MBNA thread just before getting some sleep!

[Gazza112]

Ok, Just received my mail from MBNA.

Another threatagram i'm affraid .

They told me that they tried to contact me by phone, well i could of told them that as i've blocked there number :D.

They also told me i have failed in responding to there corispondance, lies, lies, lies .

They've also have stated that the MAY take me to Court.

[car2403]

Ok, Just received my mail from MBNA.

Another threatagram i'm affraid .

They told me that they tried to contact me by phone, well i could of told them that as i've blocked there number :D.

They also told me i have failed in responding to there corispondance, lies, lies, lies .

They've also have stated that the MAY take me to Court.

 

The key word there being "may", of course.

[The GodMother]

sunflower.

 

U have said the print is microscopic then i am happy to say that s u cant read it then it is unenforcable.

[sunflower99]

Hi Godmother!Yes it is pretty tiny writing! and quite a struggle to read!Even with glasses and a good light it is a struggle!so another complaint i can put in a letter to them when they have responded to that letter car advised me to write!

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza and Car. yes i got a threat of may take me to court from MBNA!I will be asking them to show everyone their original CCA! if i they do!

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower99

 

If they every do take you to Court and i stress IF...............

Ask them if they will be supplying transport to the Court, as you have quite a few Members of the MBNA club that want to come along to the hearing :D.

 

Gaz

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Sunflower99

 

If they every do take you to Court and i stress IF...............

Ask them if they will be supplying transport to the Court, as you have quite a few Members of the MBNA club that want to come along to the hearing :D.

 

Gaz

 

Count me in:D MMmmmhhh Mass complaint to the office of Fair trading:D

 

The credit crunch will be a mere pinch, compared to the crunch you will get from your poor disgruntled customers. The bigger they are the harder they will fall:p

 

Also if we all attended court, and started demonstrating, and were arrested for contempt of court and a few more acts of vandalism, gbh and pulling the judges wig off shouting death to mbna, this would make the news at ten and we would all be famous and maybe change the face of credit companies.

 

Yes in your dreams or your worse nightmares GAZ lol

Edited October 18, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[hellhasnofury]

At least MBNA tried to hash something together!

 

Capital One just said "Thank you for your request for a copy of your executed credit credit agreement. Please find enclosed a copy of the current terms and conditions of your agreement, in compliance with section 78 of the CCA 1974."

 

I'm so shocked by their barefaced cheek I haven't been able to compose a letter yet!

 

Hello Emma,

 

That made me laugh, I am sure you will find something suitable to say in your response to this slight mis-intrepretation of the law:-D

[The GodMother]

Count me in:D MMmmmhhh Mass complaint to the office of Fair trading:D

 

The credit crunch will be a mere pinch, compared to the crunch you will get from your poor disgruntled customers. The bigger they are the harder they will fall:p

 

Also if we all attended court, and started demonstrating, and were arrested for contempt of court and a few more acts of vandalism, gbh and pulling the judges wig off shouting death to mbna, this would make the news at ten and we would all be famous and maybe change the face of credit companies.

 

Yes in your dreams or your worse nightmares GAZ lol

 

 

yes i think it would be good publicity but i dont think thats is what CAG is about.

 

any way nice ideas.

[AA99]

Hi Sunflower99

 

If they every do take you to Court and i stress IF...............

Ask them if they will be supplying transport to the Court, as you have quite a few Members of the MBNA club that want to come along to the hearing :D.

 

Gaz

 

Please don't forget to invite me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The GodMother]

Or me i love to see this in court.

[sunflower99]

Hi everyone !Wel it looks like i will be hiring a coach for the MBNA fan club!if i get summoned to court! LOL i love the pic Hellhasnofury has given me of everone having a demonstration in court and causing mayem!What a lovely thought!

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower99

 

Yes, if we can try and get MBNA to lay on lunch as well but we may be pushing it .

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza! Yes that would be nice ! Make it a little party!

[sunflower99]

Hi everyone who subscribed to my thread yesterday!

Thanks for giving me a laugh and brightening my day up!