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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Questions from : Have you received threatening demands for debts older than 6 years?


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Scotland - The Consumer Forums

 

just click on the blue under lined the consumer forums, above, to select the one you want, then hit start a new thread on the left box.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I think I've made a mistake in agreeing to pay a very old debt, which allegedly was made from my old address, while I was still living there, but during a period that I was out of the country. It is a catalogue debt and as I have been at this address for nine years am I wrong to have started to pay £10 a month?? Agreed over the phone. I was worrie about going to court.

Seasons greetings to all and lets hope things improve for 2010

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if there is a clear 6yrs when you have not had financial IN/OUT, then stop paying, its statute barred and NOTHING can unbar it, even you starting payments

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

hi all, firstly i hope i am posting in the right place!

i received a letter last week addressed 'to the occupier' and the letter said to phone a number which i did and they were sending me some information out, they wouldnt give me any info on the phone.

i have received their letter and it is from ruthbridge ltd stating that i owe cabot financial £1924.89 assigned from mbna.

it states in capitals 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE', then goes on to threaten me with bankruptcy proceedings for recovery of the oustanding balance.

further on the letter says as a final opportunity to avoid this i should pay £962.45 immediately (no later than 4th feb 2010) and as an added incentive they will instruct credit reference agency to mark the debt satisfied.

my problem is i have not had any acknowledgment of this for years now and i think it dates back to 2001, also there is no mention of it on my credit report as i have checked it.

where do i go from here?

your help is much appreciated.

thankyou

:confused:

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if its not on your credit report then there is a clear sign it might be older than 6 years but as DD says check very carefully. Bank statements would be a good place to start as they will show who gets what money.

 

Then if there is nothing send them a letter saying tanks but no thanks sa the debt is statue barred.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

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no it works fine iam just a bit annoyed that they may not understand what it means. They also may not understand what a SB letter means but both are clear and straight to the point.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

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hello can anyone help please

i got into debt 10 years ago after marriage ending.i moved away then so never heard from debters ,i known my old address still got letters as i know the person that lives there still the person has never acted on the letters and has also had phone calls (but has said not known at this address). ive have just started to repair my credit and have started to get credit.but this week i got a letter from mack hall asking if im the said person on letter .please can you help .....sorry about the grammer.....sorry ive not payed anything for over 10 years and there is nothing on my credit report

thanks for your help

Edited by jaybee26
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hi again, thanks for your replies.

there is definitely no mention of it on my credit report and it is definitely older than 6 years.

so then what would be the best letter to write to them to start the process.

feel a bit of relief talking on here, bravo to all you knowledgeable folk!.

:)

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Hi everyone. I was wondering if there was anyone that could give me some advice.

 

I have recently received a letter from a company called Red Debt Collection Services asking for payment for £1221.82 in relation to an HSBC Bank account that I had.

 

I have not used the account for around 9 years now and the debt it mainly good old bank charges.

 

What should I do about this letter as it is definitely over 6 years since I have used the account?

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Jaybee.

 

Tell them nothing on the phone just ask for everything i writing. It will be SB anyway so there should not be a problem.

 

Lolo

 

Its Sb then. Write to them politely advising its SB and leave it at that. Remember its up to them to prove it not not you to prove it is.

 

Karinelleno

 

Write a polite letter back advising its SB

 

this is a letter i would send.

 

Dear twit.

 

Your ref.

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to this company or any company you claim to represent.

 

The debt you claim l owe in relation to the above mentioned referance number is Statued barred under the limitatiions act 1980.

 

I will not be paying you anything for this debt.

 

Yours.

PRINT YOUR NAME HERE.

 

short but straight to the point. DOnt sign just print your name and then on top of that send recorded delivery.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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I am looking for some advice re debts that date from 2003. In 2003 I entered into a Debt management scheme via the CCCS. I was under the impression that the interest on all accounts was frozen. I made the effort to pay off the debt and whittled the creditors down from 10 to 3. I found out last year that one creditor, the biggest, had not frozen interest and the debt that started at 24000 pounds or so, having paid them around £9000 since 2003, is now almost £32000. Where do I stand with this creditor legally? It feels like this will never end!

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also l would assume you have some type of paperwork that CCCS may have supplied you with. Try looking on that paperwork to see if they have in writing agreed to freeze interest.

 

Also do as DD has said.

 

Jaybee.

 

Your not the person they are looking for then if the name is wrong, inital, ignore till summing come threw your door correctly addressed to you. Trie returning all to sender.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Hi quick question to anybody

 

lloyds tsb o/d with bank charges

currently stayed pending oft case

just getting ready to deal with bank etc

approx £3k out of £7K in bank charges

 

have paid any money since august 2005

d/n issued april 2006

 

is it 6 years + 2006 = 2012?

 

While i will be arguing new stance if i can delay for another 2 years i can take advantage of the 6 year SB? Hopefully my court case will be at the back of queue.

 

Cheers

 

ST

RBS/Triton - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Moorcroft - Gone way No CCA

RBS/AIC - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Intrum - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Regal - Gone Away

 

Cahoot/Link - CCA in Dispute

 

Capital One - Settled

 

Lloyds Bank - Awaiting Outcome from Supreme Court Hearing.

 

Lloyds Credit Credit - Repayment Plan

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Thanks for your reply.

 

So does this mean if I paid the last payments during 2005 and they have no evidence of written admission after this that this i will come statute barred in 2011.

 

I wrote to them saying that i do not acknowledge the debt two years ago when they came after me

 

I did SAR them so i guess this would have any evidence that i have acked the debt. I will double check but dont thing there is anything in there

 

Regards

 

ST

 

the 6 years starts from the date of YOUR last payment to them or written admission of the debt!!

 

when they served a DN is of no relevance

Edited by speedtrip

RBS/Triton - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Moorcroft - Gone way No CCA

RBS/AIC - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Intrum - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Regal - Gone Away

 

Cahoot/Link - CCA in Dispute

 

Capital One - Settled

 

Lloyds Bank - Awaiting Outcome from Supreme Court Hearing.

 

Lloyds Credit Credit - Repayment Plan

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hello godmother

thanks for your help so far but i think i mite need a bit more.

i just got a letter from meritforce doorstep collection for the debt with correct name from mack hall .please can you advise me wot to do thanks also said someone will come round within 10 days

Edited by jaybee26
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what amounts to aknowledgement is a question of construction

all that is needed is an admission by the debtor that there is a debt or other liquidated pecuniary claim outstanding and of his legal liability to pay it.

it is not neccessary that the aknowledgement should specify the amount of debt if it can be ascertained by other means,but it must aknowledge a claim ,not merely that there may be a claim,and it must further aknowledge that the claim exists at the date of the aknowledgement or that it existed on a day which falls within the appropiate period of limitation next before action can be brought...

so if this debt is more than six years old and you have never aknowledged it ,then it is statute barred

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Thanks for your reply.

 

I need to look into this to see if I wrote to them and in any way may of have admitted the debt (pre CAG) but I guess in not in the SAR if there any they dont have them. Once I found CAG I make it very clear I did not acknowledge the debt.

 

By the way when does the clock start ticking and as my case was stayed by the court does the 6 years include/exclude this period?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Regards

 

ST

RBS/Triton - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Moorcroft - Gone way No CCA

RBS/AIC - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Intrum - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Regal - Gone Away

 

Cahoot/Link - CCA in Dispute

 

Capital One - Settled

 

Lloyds Bank - Awaiting Outcome from Supreme Court Hearing.

 

Lloyds Credit Credit - Repayment Plan

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acknowledging that there is "a claim" is irrelevant provided that the communication says that "the claim" referred to is denied

 

it would be unusual indeed if someone received notice of a "claim" , of which he knew nothing and did not seek to find out or clarify what this "claim" was in respect of

 

therefore an acknowledgment of a "claim" in itself- if that acknowledgement is a query about, or denial of any liability would not be an admission of the indebtedness.

 

i think you are taking the letter of the law too literally

 

if no payment has been made and the debtor has not ADMITTED that the debt (whether he states the amount ) is owed then that is sufficient IMO

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Hi,

 

Why do you advise not to send the letters recorded delivery??? just that we are going to use the letters but was advised to send them recorded so we have proof that they have been received.

 

Look forward to your response

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