'Robinson way doing my head in!!

[ODC]

Definately report RWC to TS. Also contact Hayley Felton at RWC and demand a copy of their complaints procedure. If they fail to resolve your complaint fully to your satisfaction report them to the FOS.

[doingmyheadin]

just thought id update for the people that helped me. Have not heard a word from Robinson way since i sent letter ODC gave me...not a beep!! think it has actually worked. have since done the same with Fredrickson for 2 old MBNA accounts..they have gone over the 12 days and i am patiently awaiting the end of the 30 day countdown. They did send me a statement of account for 1 of the accounts but absolutely nothing else. so i have just filed this for safekeeping.

 

i wold just like to thank everyone who has helped me on this site. i am getting my life back in control and no longer have the stress, panic attacks or down rite depresion brought on by all the debt i was in...i feel normal again thank god and this site...i continue to help people from my own home town who have heard what i have done and this in itself gives me a great deal of satisfaction!

 

as my daughter would say, this site rocks!!!

[ODC]

Its good to take controle back from these leeches

[loyalbrummie]

well done dmhi , im having fun with the monkeys at the moment and not trying to blow my own trumpet but if you look at my thread robinson way yet again , you will see whose winning .

[doingmyheadin]

Thanx LB, I just read ur thread and it was the laugh i needed at the start of 4, 12hour nightshifts.....great laugh...they never had my phone number so i never got to have a laugh with them...have had a wee laugh with Fredrickson but they have stopped phoning me now or I would be using some of your lines...good luck for the future!

[doingmyheadin]

Would you believe it....yes probably!!! Rob Way have passed my info onto Wescot who have sent me a demand or 'may result in court action' etc etc....time to get back to Trading Standards regarding Robinson Way.

 

But has anyone got a nifty little letter/template that I could fire of the Wescot regarding the passing of my details from Robo being illegal etc etc....

[doingmyheadin]

Would you believe it....yes probably!!! Rob Way have passed my info onto Wescot who have sent me a demand or 'may result in court action' etc etc....time to get back to Trading Standards regarding Robinson Way.

 

But has anyone got a nifty little letter/template that I could fire of the Wescot regarding the passing of my details from Robo being illegal etc etc....

 

 

sorry should have mentioned that Wescot letter stated 'our Client Bank of Scotland' i think...havent got it at work at the moment. So Robinson seem to have passed it back to BOS and then they have employed Wescot!!! Any thoughts on this????

[doingmyheadin]

sorry should have mentioned that Wescot letter stated 'our Client Bank of Scotland' i think...havent got it at work at the moment. So Robinson seem to have passed it back to BOS and then they have employed Wescot!!! Any thoughts on this????

 

Anybody with any thoughts on this please

[ODC]

Well if RWC couldnt produce a valid CCA the Westcot wont either. All their letters are from their so called Pre Court Division. They are an abolute pathetic joke. You could send the debt passed on whilst in dispute letter that I posted earlier in this thread

[Largebear]

First Post on this cracking site--so bear with me!!

Robinson Way are starting to make life hell!

Story so far..

I got a CCJ in 1994 for £5,765 and paid instalments via Barclays solicitor Elizabeth Handforth, and subsequently Intrum Justitia intil 1999 when balance was down to £3,925.

As far as I can recall I ran out of payment book slips and no furher book appeared--no one chased me and the whole thing died. I never heard another dicky bird.Not even a phone call in 9 years???!!!

My solicitor friend tells me Barclays will have written it all off by 6 years after the date of the CCJ. Now Robinson Way are ringing me 2 or 3 times a day in a stroppy manner insisting on full payment.

They say I made a payment in November 2003 which I have no record of and cannot recall ever even considering as the matter died as far as I was concerned in the last century!!

What is my position and how do I get these folk to see sense?

The calls worry my wife to death, and I am demented as RW tell me that as I apparently made a phantom payment in 2003 then I have "recognised" the debt in the past 6 years so I must pay in full in 14 days or they will send the boys round.

Is there a chance that they are legit or not? One of their callers said Barclays had sold them the debt so I owed them, then another said they were collectiong on behalf of Barclays and I owed Barclays the money...

It just goes on and on, and since I started this email I have had a third call today from them saying they will be arranging a home visit to collect in full.....HELP???

Largebear

[ODC]

Send them this. I would be 99.99999999% certain that they will come up with nothing

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

This letter gets rid of all of RWCs weasley excuses before they get a chance to make them.

[Largebear]

Send them this. I would be 99.99999999% certain that they will come up with nothing

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

This letter gets rid of all of RWCs weasley excuses before they get a chance to make them.

 

Thank You ever so much ODC--At least I have something concrete now!

I will run this off tonite, and first thing in the morning it will go with a Quid Postal Order and I'll send it Recorded Delivery.

Hopefully your reckoning that it will virtually kill them off will be right--if otherwise then I will report back..

 

many many Thanks

Largebear ( I feel a reward donation would be in order if it works!!!)

Thanks Again

[Largebear]

hi ODC and the rest of the nice guys!

 

I did send off that rebuttal letter to Robinson Way etc etc with £1 p.o. plus sent it registered and have kept the signature.

I have not had any reply/acknowledgement/response/phone call and was wondering if I need to do anything as it a fortnight now since they got that letter.???

What, pease, is the time limit for them to respond? When does the clock run out on them??

Do I have to write again and tell them they missed a deadline or anything, please?

I would hate to miss the opportunity of putting the boot in in a timely manner especially if they are up against a wall/lying on the floor!

My old late Dad was a Dublin Docker and always told me the best time to kick a man was when he was on the floor!!

Pointers please, folks as I dont want to miss a chance to get the Doc Martins out from under the stairs!

Largebear:rolleyes:

[ODC]

Sit tight and do nothing. No news in this case is good news.

[Largebear]

Sit tight and do nothing. No news in this case is good news.

 

 

Thanks! Sitting tight & doing nothing,,as instructed Sir!!

 

If they should be in touch then in the words of the Governor of California "I'll be back!"

Tks again

Largebear

 

[jayw]

Hey Largebear - join the club! I'm also having problems with RW, very similar scenario to yours. (See my post 'Not sure what to do next'

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/169558-not-sure-what-do.html

My request to RW for statements of the loan account etc produced a vague reply 'the debtor says they have already provided this information' - yeah, donkeys years ago which is why I no longer have any relevant paperwork relating to it all. Somehow I doubt RW even bothered to ask Barclays, just thought 'feed her a load of bull, it'll shut her up'.

My latest move was to post (recorded), on Friday, a SAR to Barclays.

I'm now going to wait to see what they have to offer.

Unfortunately RW have my phone number, but I'm NOT going to talk to them again except in writing (although I wonder if they can actually read words of more than 3 letters ...) and always recorded delivery.

The advice and help I had when I posted my problem has been such a relief and I fully intend taking it and being guided through this by folks who obviously know the ins and outs of these things.

Don't let the b***** grind you down.

jayw

[Largebear]

Hey Largebear - join the club! I'm also having problems with RW, very similar scenario to yours. (See my post 'Not sure what to do next'

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/169558-not-sure-what-do.html

My request to RW for statements of the loan account etc produced a vague reply 'the debtor says they have already provided this information' - yeah, donkeys years ago which is why I no longer have any relevant paperwork relating to it all. Somehow I doubt RW even bothered to ask Barclays, just thought 'feed her a load of bull, it'll shut her up'.

My latest move was to post (recorded), on Friday, a SAR to Barclays.

I'm now going to wait to see what they have to offer.

Unfortunately RW have my phone number, but I'm NOT going to talk to them again except in writing (although I wonder if they can actually read words of more than 3 letters ...) and always recorded delivery.

The advice and help I had when I posted my problem has been such a relief and I fully intend taking it and being guided through this by folks who obviously know the ins and outs of these things.

Don't let the b***** grind you down.

jayw

 

Hi jayw! Largebear here!!

 

Not very helpful, are they, these RW mob??

 

I did as I was advised on here and sent off the oficial request with the £1 PO for info as shown in the pro-forma, and 3 weeks + have gone by and not a dickybird.

Remember they probably monitor this site!!

I scaned your story on the other thread, and I wonder as you allege you paid it off did you not get a Certificate of Satisfaction from the Court when it was settled?

If so, and if you subsequently binned that, then a copy might de got by checking with the Court.

Never ever throw anything to do with debt out!!!

 

By the way If you got a CCJ against you--as I did-- then it is not effected by the 7 year rule or 6 year rule. I have it on good authority that a CCJ last indefinitely if its not settled....Worrying????

That was why RW got onto me in the first place--they said I had made a payment in 2004 ( which I hadn't!!) last one in 1999!!!

 

I hope to hear nothing from them until New Year and then they can go hang!!

 

I think you may be too keen to correspond/speak with them...DON'T

 

Send them nothing but aggro--too much communication might give a clever lawyer a point to show thaT YOU ADMIT THE DEBT....

 

sOD 'em

 

lARGEBEAR

[jayw]

I'm only going to correspond with RW if/when necessary. Have added an update to my thread following call from them earlier.

As I said, it was so long back, and with so much happening over last 5 years with husband's ongoing illness and myself being seriously ill August 2003 (emergency major surgery,long period off work recouperating) etc I sometimes have difficulty remembering things from 6 months ago, let alone several years! So the subject of a Certificate of Satisfaction is a bit of a blur. I really don't recall. Trouble is, I always thought that once something had been 'laid to rest', after 5 years (it's actually 6, I know that now) it was defunct, so I've tended to dispose of stuff on that basis as we just don't have the space to keep a lifetime's worth of paperwork! The only thing we've ever kept indefinitely is payslips and pension stuff.

JayW

[sillygirl1]

Robinson Way's masters are in trouble .... see link from Credit Today... explains why they are ranking up the pressure on their 'creditors'.

 

Credit Today online

[Largebear]

hi ODC and the rest of the nice guys!

 

I did send off that rebuttal letter to Robinson Way etc etc with £1 p.o. plus sent it registered and have kept the signature.

I have not had any reply/acknowledgement/response/phone call and was wondering if I need to do anything as it a fortnight now since they got that letter.???

What, please, is the time limit for them to respond? When does the clock run out on them??

Do I have to write again and tell them they missed a deadline or anything, please?

I would hate to miss the opportunity of putting the boot in in a timely manner especially if they are up against a wall/lying on the floor!

My old late Dad was a Dublin Docker and always told me the best time to kick a man was when he was on the floor!!

Pointers please, folks as I dont want to miss a chance to get the Doc Martins out from under the stairs!

Largebear:rolleyes:

 

 

 

Hi Again ODC and the rest of you knowledgeable folks!!--Well the Saga re-opens!!

 

Yesterday was the 40th day since I sent off the "rebuttal" letter plus my £1.00 PO to Robinson Way. No acknowledgement of receipt, but I knew they'd got it because it went by "Signed For on Delivery" Mail!!

TODAY on the 41st day I get the dreaded Blue & White Envelope with a SAE enclosed?? telling me:-

 

" re Your recent (?) request"

 

Please note we have not received a response from the original seller ( Barclays circa 1990) . This note is to tell you we are continuing to seek an update,and we will let you know the response as soon as we hear.

Thank you for your patience

 

End of note

 

Can anyone please tell me if they have passed any landmark date or threshold by not producing the requested info. in let's face it, 6 weeks?

 

They still seek £3925.17 and tell me that as a CCJ was granted on this in the mid 1990's ( Long gone from my Credit Record, by the way!!) they are still able to pursue me FOREVER for the balance....

 

Cheers

 

Largebear

[ODC]

IF there is still a CCJ then the muppets would have to convince a Judge as to why it hasnt been enforced. In fact you have to ask yourself why they havent enforced one if it actually exists. If a CCJ existed they wouldnt need the CCA that they claim Barclays are trying to find. In the meantime ignore these twats

[Largebear]

IF there is still a CCJ then the muppets would have to convince a Judge as to why it hasnt been enforced. In fact you have to ask yourself why they havent enforced one if it actually exists. If a CCJ existed they wouldnt need the CCA that they claim Barclays are trying to find. In the meantime ignore these twits

 

Many thanks ODC--Interesting to see if they can uncover any new twists to try to get at me?

There was a CCJ back in 1994-ish and I was paying off until 1999 when the Paying In book ranout of coupons.( Barclays were using Intrum Justitia to chase me then!) I actually rang them (IJ) up after a month ( Twit!) and asked again for a fresh book--None came--Not never ever--Then R Way bought the debt and manfactured a payment they said I had made in 2004 (???) thus justifying their getting on to me "as it was within the last 5 years, so its a still active debt to be repaid...etc etc ..??)

 

I really think its time they got a slapping--they are just idiots!!

 

Cheers

Largebear

[ODC]

Remember Robbinscum Way must prove you made the alleged payment in 2004. These imaginary payments are a favourite ploy of DCAs.

 

Yes RWC really need a good slapping. They bring idiocy to a whole new level. Ask Diskmandave

[Largebear]

hi ODC and the rest of the nice guys!

 

I did send off that rebuttal letter to Robinson Way etc etc with £1 p.o. plus sent it registered and have kept the signature.

I have not had any reply/acknowledgement/response/phone call and was wondering if I need to do anything as it a fortnight now since they got that letter.???

What, pease, is the time limit for them to respond? When does the clock run out on them??

Do I have to write again and tell them they missed a deadline or anything, please?

I would hate to miss the opportunity of putting the boot in in a timely manner especially if they are up against a wall/lying on the floor!

My old late Dad was a Dublin Docker and always told me the best time to kick a man was when he was on the floor!!

Pointers please, folks as I dont want to miss a chance to get the Doc Martins out from under the stairs!

Largebear:rolleyes:

 

Hi!

 

PRECISELY 2 months later Robinson Way have written to me this morning returning my £1.00 PO (sent as per above) and stating..

 

"With reference to your recent request, please be advised that our client

have advised that they are unable to provide the documents you requested.

However you are within your rights to contact them directly.

Please be advised that the last payment made on the account was on 20th November 2003.

Please forward your payment proposals by return.

Yours etc

Signed " Squiggle"

 

Just to remind all that this was an original debt for £5765.00 with Barclays Bank which had a CCJ given against me AUGUST 1994--nearly 15 years ago!!.

I was going through an awful patch then and agreed monthly payments with Elizabeth Handforth ( Barclays tame in house solicitors) on £30 pcm.

This carried on with a couple of small hitches until 1998 when Handforth passed the case to Intrum Justitia who harried me for full settlement but then accpted the £30 pcm . I ran out of payment slips --which they insisted I use, in 1999 and requested a fresh supply.I am very certain that no payment was made in November 2003 as they state. No response, so no slips and I made no further payment. No one chased me...

I didn't ask a second time and it died a proverbial death until RW wanted the lot 9 years later in last October , stating that a "CCJ never dies, and there was no way out, and they would sent the boys round etc.."

I have used the recommendations given here religiously, but now plainly they want to play Round 2.

My wife has gone into the County Court this morning, asking what is the score if a CCJ of nearly 15 years ago is resurrected,and claiming payment of a debt in early 1990's. They advised ( well, the girl on the desk advised!) that a CCJ never dies and the plaintiff can demand that it is re-opened. She added we are getting a few Debt Collecting Agencies trying to reopen old cases these days as everyone is trying to drag funds in, and the fact that the original paperwork cannot be found by plaintiffs is ignored and seen as a sly way out by Registrars, and in most cases they are permitting the case to be reopened--suggesting that a "sum-in-settlement " be negotiated in view of the time taken, to close the matter. However she added Debt colectors are instead going for the full amount"

 

So I appear to be back to square 1 with the RW curse about to kick the door in...or am I??

Can anyone suggest how this can be moved to the next stage?

Thanks in adv

 

Very Perturbed

LargeBear

[ODC]

Without a CCA they are Donald Ducked. They cannot prove the alleged debt exists and seem totally unaware of the CCJ.

 

I personally would ignore them at the minute and see what they come up with.

 

If however you want to write to them send them this (Amend to suit)

 

 

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated **********, the contents of which are noted

 

You attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xx/xx/2007 I requested DCA NAME supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date DCA NAME have failed to comply with my request and have totally ignored my written reminders sent via recorded delivery of this fact. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you or DCA NAME, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced.

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as DCA NAME become compliant with my request. As DCA NAME are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

• All charges levied since ******** 2007 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******* comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

• All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

• All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2007 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards