Hi Guys, Back in May I was stopped by Revenue Inspectors. During that week I had exams, and I had lost my oyster card which was not registered. On that very morning, I asked a friend if they had a spare oyster card and they handed me it. At that time I didn't think to ask about if I was allowed to use the card since he gave me the wallet and I tapped in. I was then approached by an individual who later identified himself as a Revenue Inspector. He asked to see the Oyster Card which I showed him and then he said you know you are not allowed to use a Freedom Pass belonging to another person. Of course I am aware that I am unable to use a Freedom Pass which has another person photo, but I only became aware that it was a freedom pass once It was brought to my attention by the Revenue Inspector. I should have checked and made sure I was entitled to use the card but I had an exam that day, I was running Late and I had been up all night revising so I admit I did not do all that I could. Then he said some stuff to me that TFL will write me a letter and said sign this and you can go. He didn't explicitly mentioned that I was being charged under the Regulations of Railways Act 1889, he just said anything you do say may be used against you in court or something along those lines. Then I left the station because I was stopped as I was about to start my journey. Now I want to pursue a career where it is imperative to be CRB clear, now I understand my failings but I never intended to defraud TFL. The witness statement also states the below which I don't understand: What does the last 8 journeys have to do with me? "A ticket office machine (Tom) printout is generated from A London Underground ticket office. This printout details the last 8 complete journeys when it has been presented onto an Oyster Card Validator within the transport for London zonal system. It will also details when travel card have been loaded onto the Oyster Card. This printout is obtained from a person trained in the use of the ticket office machine,and no amendmenta are made to it after its compilation" Any advice please.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713784/Unmasked-City-high-flier-Jonathan-Burrows-dodged-43-000-rail-fares-paid-3-days.html

Hi everyone, I was really stupid and bought short tickets on South West trains. I bought a return from a station with barriers to the next stop along the line, but got off a few stops later where there were no barriers. I have done this once or twice and was caught today and given a caution. I am really worried about being prosecuted as a criminal record would ruin me! I'm only a student and I have no previous convictions or cautions. I'm really worried about this - could anyone help? I know I have been really stupid to do this! Thanks.

Dear all, In mid-May I was stopped by an inspector after touching into a station and was caught using my friend’s 18+ oyster which has a monthly travel card on, I initially remained quiet because I thought I was under arrest. The inspector then threatened me if I kept quiet she will call the police and the police will ask me the questions, I did not know if she has the right to do so but I flustered upon hearing possible police intervention and obeyed. She then took her notebook out and asked me a series of questions, while another guy went to get the oyster history printout of both oyster cards she found in my holder (I was carrying my friend’s oyster and my old photocard which I kept as souvenir after its expiry). She also got another lady to take my address and call someone else up to check the validity of my address. I cooperated and answered all her questions honestly, however I received rather racist comments during the interview which obviously was not recorded in her notes. At the end of interview she pulled out a small rectangular yellow card and read the words out to me, it was along the line of “you are not under arrest and you do not have to stay with me”. I am certain about the “you do not have to stay with me” part because I clearly remember feeling very confused. She then added a question to her notebook and asked me “I read these words out to you [motion towards yellow card], yes or no?”, to which I said “yes” because, well, she did. She read her notes out and asked me to sign at the bottom, in her notes she said I deliberately tried to hide my friend’s oyster by giving her my old oyster first, which does not match the facts because she opened my oyster holder herself (without my permission!) and found my friend’s oyster before I took my old oyster out. By no means was I trying to hide anything so I immediately disagreed with her, and she changed her notes into a neutral statement of me presenting her with two oysters. However when I got the prosecution letter earlier this week, the statement of facts clearly says I initially showed my old oyster and before presenting my friend’s oyster when being asked. The typed version of notes from her notebook, which does not have my signature, also incorrectly says she cautioned me before asking me any questions. Apart from this she also changed my answer to one of her questions, from “my friend bought it (the pass)” to “I asked my friend to buy it (the monthly travelcard) for me”. I am very very worried now, what could/should I do? If I write to them to ask for settlement out of court, would this indirectly means I agree with the evidences? If I do so and they do not accept my offer of settling out of court, would I still be able to choose to plead not guilty and would the letter I wrote make any difference to the trial? Would the omission of caution make any difference to the validity to the statement? If I knew I did not have to stay with the inspector before answering any questions at the very least I would have kept my mouth shut! I have read through a lot of threads on this forum but don’t seem to find a similar case, thank you very much for everyone’s patience and time to read my entire post up to here. Any help would be gratefully appreciated, thank you very much in advance!

Hello there, New round here. I hope this is in the right place and thank you in advance for your advice/feedback. A summary of the predicament I am in. Last October I travelled from Leicester to Manchester with an advanced ticket I had purchased with a young persons railcard. I was stopped by the conductor on the train and on showing my rail card I realised I only had the one half of the two bits that I needed for it to be valid. (For those that aren't familiar with railcards, in previous years all the information was on one card, much like a membership card or a driving license. Now they give it to you in two parts, one with the photo ID and the other with the expiry date) I had used my bit part railcard for many weeks previously and was never pulled up on it by ticket conductors on many of the journeys I had undertaken. in fact I was rarely asked to produce it at all, but I suppose that isn't the point. I was issued with an on the spot fine which I was unable to pay for not producing the relevant ID opted for the fine in which I was given 28 days to pay. I also voluntarily asked for one on the journey back as I still was in a position where I couldn't afford to pay for a full ticket and had no way of getting back. The conductor was very accomodating and informed me that if I found the missing part of my railcard, it might be worth sending it in and the fines would be cancelled. Unfortunately I never found it. At this point, and I know this is probably the part where I'm guilty judge, jury and executioner, I gave my old address as my correspondence. Now this wasn't a complete deliberate attempt to evade the fare as I was currently only living in Leicester part time and the only options I had available were to give my home address (which is some 80 miles away, and in all likeliness I wouldn't have travelled home within that 28 days) or my girlfriends parents which was where I was residing when I was in Leicester. The address I'd given was my previous term address which I had moved out of in the summer. I was still in contact with the landlord and had expected that I would be notified if any post came for me so I could pick it up. I heard nothing between October 30th (the original date of the fine) until the day before I went on holiday couple of weeks ago - June 25th - when a letter arrived at my mothers residence in Shrewsbury. In which time I'd missed a court case in Stockport, which was dated for May 7th and a judgement was passed in my absence. I have now been given a fine of £1200 and will have a criminal conviction. When I rang up Manchester and Stockport court in total dismay as to what I was being summoned for, they suggested I make a statutory declaration. I was given no more information, no dates or any specifics as to what I was being charged for. I was not told to seek any legal representation and when I attended the statutory declaration, which I assumed to be a mere formality of signing forms or something similar (my ignorance perhaps) I was asked to swear under oath and give a fairly accurate account of what happened. After a very awkward and intense 15 mins or so the judging panel decided not to proceed with the declaration and that the fine/conviction stood. Is this normal procedure in this circumstances? I'm still shocked as to how little information was made available to me. Of course I certainly didn't go out of my way to receive the fine and any subsequent letters but neither did I specifically go out of my way to avoid them. After all eight months had passed and I had assumed (hoped) that the matter had gone away. Again, my ignorance perhaps. Where do I stand with regards to appealing this decision? I am a student having only very recently finished my studies and with aspirations to work abroad or within a government office, something that would be destroyed if this conviction stands. I have never (knowingly) committed a crime of my life and after my mother was recently diagnosed with a third recurrence of lung cancer I am now the sole provider in my house and simply could not afford to pay a fine. (Not particularly wanting to go down the road of X-Factor style sob-stories but this perhaps couldn't have landed at my feet at a worse time). I've also not told a single person about this, mainly not to worry my mother, and following from today's experience in court am pretty shaken and worried at what might happen. Any information would be a godsend. I'm not looking for lectures, I know I've not covered myself in glory here but a £1200 fine and a criminal record for what was more than likely a total of £40 difference in ticket prices is grossly unfair in my opinion. I have written a grovelling letter to the chief exec of the rail company but I'm not holding my breath!

Hi Everyone, I'm in a bit if a sticky situation. I was on my way to work from a fairly busy railway station to a central London train station. The station I was traveling from has Oyster Card barriers, however, on that day they happened to be open. I have a pay as you go Oyster Card and tapped on the barrier. Now, as far as I'm aware the barrier didn't give the usual message of "Seek Assistance" - in fact I don't remember it giving a message at all. If it had done, i would have turned back around and topped up my card. Thinking everything was ok I traveled to the central london station where i was caught by the ticket inspectors. I was adamant that i wouldn't pay the fine and long story short - i have now received a summons. This is a the tricky part and incredibly stupid part and i don't know what to do. The address details i provided to the ticket inspector were details of my parent's house where i was living a couple of years ago. The inspector wanted a verifiable address and I haven't updated my driving licence yet so i showed him the driving licence and he spoke to someone on the phone and it all checked out ok. Just to clarify, i honestly wasn't trying to deceive them, it just that i get some of my mail at my parent's house anyway and every time i've tried to update my driving licence address details on the DVLA site there always seems to be a problem...not sure why, but needless to say, I am very disorganised and haven't got around to updating my details yet. Now the summons only refers Bye-Law 18(1) of the Transport Act 2005. No mention of false address charges. Do I need to tell them? Should i just plead guilty and get it over with? If they find out that i gave an address isn't my current address can they prosecute me for that also? I would like to settle out of court, but that would mean having to write a letter with my address. Will they able to charge me with giving false details now? Obviously i don't want a criminal record. Wish i'd just paid the penalty fare now!! Please advise

Hi, I'm looking for some advice on a problem that has affected me. I'll begin from the start. I ordered a Stagecoach Smartcard (part of EMT so i gather) so i could commute to school (I'm 16) by Train. I went to use it as i went to my volunteer position on a Heritage Railway, I thought it worked like a trentbarton MANGO card, I scanned it on and the scanner bleeped at me so i thought i'd recieve a bill through the post or something (first time using one). I got on my train and as the Ticket Inspector walked down i explained what i had done and asked her if it was OK, she later turned out to be a Revenue Protection Officer for EMT. She took my card and said that the card was only for season tickets but took it and phoned the card place. She said there was no ticket on the card so i offered to pay for a paper one, she refused and said it's too late. She then got me off the train at Derby Station (I started at Long Eaton, commuting to Belper) and took me to the front desk. I asked her if i could use a phone to call my parent and she said she'd check my details and be a few minutes then i could. I gave her my details and version of events in full. I got my phone out (with no credit) to get my parent's number out and she said i couldn't use her phone because i had one, she said that i had a phone and im trying to waste her time. She even threatened to call the police and my volunteer work and 'see what they thought of it' in the end she said she'd be reporting it and i'd get a letter in the post to take me to court. I made her fully aware i was 16 and asked her for ID so i could write down her name, She flashed her name badge (pinned onto her shirt) at me and shouted 'I'm ****** and i'm a REVENUE PROTECTION OFFICER!' (Don't know if i'm allowed to post names). Afterwards when i got to my volunteers position (late) and spoke to two volunteers (One a Magistrate and one a former Police Officer) and they said what she did was out of order and they probably wouldn't do anything because of her behaviour (shouting, refusing me access to a phone, questioning me without a responsible adult, not showing me a badge of authority or cautioning me and apparently anything i said to her was inadmissible in court). Any advice? I'm still waiting on the letter. Thanks, Alphoria

Hello, I was recently stopped by ticket inspectors for inadvertently travelling one zone beyond that which my monthly travelcard covered. I was stopped and told about the fine; when I tried to explain it was an accident, the inspector walked me over to his more senior colleague, who immediately started taking down my details. I soon realised the second inspector wasn’t interested in hearing my side (which, naively, is what I first thought was happening) but instead started to write me up and take down details, and reading me a caution. I asked several times why this was happening (was ignored), and I then offered – again several times – to pay the on the spot fine, sensing whatever was going to happen was going to be more trouble than it was worth. I produced my bank card to show I had means to pay. I was also accused of giving a false address just because the inspector couldn’t find me on whatever system he was accessing – which I soon disproved by showing a tax bill addressed to me, which he accepted. The whole exchange got quite heated, primarily because the inspector was refusing to accept payment for the on the spot fine, and also accusing me of trying to give false details, which was never the case. From what I can tell from initial research, it’s completely up to the discretion of the First Capital Connect’s prosecution department whether or not to accept an appeal, accept payment/admin costs, or just take the whole thing straight to court. I’m perfectly willing to accept I’m in the wrong and need to pay something; but I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the likelihood of this being taken further – i.e. to court – straight away. I’ve never fare dodged before in 15 years of commuting, this was an honest mistake, and I tried very hard to pay the fine after the initial conversation, but the inspector seemed very intent on taking it further. Any advice? thanks

Hi everyone, I'm an international student who is not familiar at all with UK law system. I really really need your advice. Here is my issue: I was required to pay a penalty fare of 49.40 pounds for not being able to show a valid railcard when I was travelling with Southern Railway on 29th January 2014 I gave my debit card to the inspector who was on duty that day to pay for my fare and received a Penalty Fare Receipt Money was debited from my bank account on 6th February 2014. However, not until the due date for payment (18th February 2014) had passed did I realize that the money had been returned to my account on 7th February 2014. It turned out that there hadn't been sufficient fund on by bank account when I made the payment so the transaction wasn't successful. I am aware that I only had 21 days to pay for my fare and that legal proceedingts may be brought against me if the amount owing remains outstanding. HOWEVER, as I had been sure on the day that my payment had gone through and as I had been given a receipt (not a notice), I genuinely and honestly did not know that I still have an outstanding amount to pay for. Not until the due date had passed did I check my bank statement. Also, I was not aware of the amount outstanding because there has not been any letter advising of the outstanding sums that was sent to me and I have not been contacted by any one by any means since then . I think the reason is because I got a penalty fare reciept ( NOT a penaltay fare NOTICE) so they didn't record my details into the system. I'm not 100% sure but I remember providing my address in full to the inspector on a separate document ( Is it normal or do I always have to give my address on the receipt?) I was only required to sign but not to write my address on the receipt. I can assure that there was no signed confirmation stating that I refused to provide such info. As I assume that neither Southern Railways nor the Revenue Protection Support Services (RPSS) is aware of this unsuccessful transaction, I did contact both of them, both in writing and through the phone. However, both of them requested me to contact the other. The Southern Railway Customer Services said that they are not able to deal with any issues regarding penalty fares and advised me to contact RPSS. However, when I contacted RPSS, I was referred back to Southern Railway because they do not deal with notices that are paid immediately on the day. My details and notice code could not be found on both systems so even though I tried to, I could not make a payment to RPSS, neither online nor through the phone. At the moment, I honestly do not know what I should do, who I should contact and how I can pay for my fare. I already send letters to both of them last Saturday but I don't know how long would it take for them to process my case. The money still remains unsuccessfully paid after 2 months and I am very worried that a legal proceeding may be brought against me. So please, I need your advice. 1. Will I be prosecuted because it has already been 2 months 8 days since the deadline and my fare hasn't been paid? 2. The root cause was because of me not having enough money on my bank account. Can this be considered an offence and enough to be used against me although I was unaware? 3. I emailed Southern Railway on 23rd February, they replied and told me to contact RPSS on 10th March but not until 25th April did I call RPSS and Southern Railway again. Is this a big problem that I didn't call them right away? I was not sure about my rights as well as the regulations so it took time for me to research about it. 4. Who should I contact now to pay for my fare? As I've said before I couldn't do it with RPSS because I've already paid on the day and my penalty fare code needed for payment has not been recorded. Thank you very much for spending time reading this. and please help

Hello everyone. I am a university student and I have been looking for some legal advice recently and i've come across CAG forums. Let me explain my situation. It was the 13th of december 2013. It was the last day of university autumn term and I was travelling from birmingham moor street to aylesbury station. All seemed well until one of the guards at aylesbury station decided to check my ticket and railcard. I did what they asked and told me that my railcard was expired. The guard notified his supervisor about the situation. They informed me that buying a discounted ticket with an expired railcard is an offence and that i have to pay a penalty fare. I made them aware that i know my responsibilities, i acknowledged that i was at fault for not realising that my railcard was expired, i accept the consequences and i let them know that i am more than willing and capable of paying the penalty fare. However, i informed them that i will be away from the UK until the 10th of Jan 2014 (as i had a plane to catch on the 15th december), thus i wouldnt be able to respond to whatever letter they send me. They told me that this wouldnt be a problem and so i thought nothing else of this incident. However, months passed and i still havent heard anything from them. Come mid march, they decided to take me to court as I received a final notice stating that i have been avoiding paying the penalty fare. This is what troubles me as i have made my intentions clear from the beginning that i was willing to pay the fare yet they decided to sue me for avoiding paying the fare. I was very cooperative with the people at aylesbury station from the beginning. I gave them all the information they needed; i showed them my passport and i gave them my addresses both in my dorm in birmingham and in alyesbury. I DID NOT receive any sort of notice of when, where and how to pay the penalty fare at both addresses that i gave them and so they must have assumed that I was avoiding paying the fare. Now im being summoned to court on the 23rd of april. What can i do at this point?

I lost my rail card last Thursday, traveled yesterday using a ticket I had booked in advance in March, with a young persons rail card discount. Naively didn't realise that I would be committing an offence travelling since I do genuinely have a rail card and was in possession of a physical copy it when I purchased the tickets. Silly me, wont be something I will be doing again I am appealing it, as I thought I may as well have a go. A £52 penalty fare over £1.70 just seems ridiculous - who would deliberately try and defraud the system out of £1.70?! Would anyone mind giving me some feedback on my appeal letter, I have never written anything like this before. Please and thank you! Dear Sir/Madam Reference: SR ###### I am writing in reference to the penalty fare I received on the 15/04/2014, at London Victoria train station for the sum of £51.60. Having travelled on the 15:49 service from Brighton to London Victoria. I was issued with the aforementioned penalty fare upon completion of my journey from Brighton to London Victoria by a ticket inspector whilst passing through the barriers. Although I did have a ticket for the journey mentioned, I was unable to produce my Young Persons railcard which had allowed me to get a 1/3 discount off of the ticket which I had booked in advance; paying £3.30 instead of the full fare of £5. I was unable to produce my railcard as on 10/04/2014 I lost my purse – all my personal cards, rail card included. This was then reported to the police on 11/04/2014; reference number ########. This coincided with a very stressful time for me, the end of my University term, meaning that I had to balance the demands of University hand deadlines with the replacement of all my banking/identity/university cards which were lost in my purse. Unfortunately, I overlooked the fact that the train ticket which had been booked in advance on 23/03/2014 had to be used alongside a physical copy of my railcard. As this was my first experience of losing my railcard I, perhaps naively, did not realise that it would be an offence to travel without my rail card on my persons as I had purchased the rail card in January this year and had been in possession of it in March when I purchased the advanced ticket. As a University student I have regular financial struggles and already face a high bill having lost my purse, having to replace my driving license, identity cards and University cards. Currently, my penalty fare has been paid at the station by my boyfriend, Mr ##### #####, as I was unable to do so. I now realise that I made a mistake in going ahead and using the ticket booked in advance, but at the time I was unaware. I fully understand that there is a need for the penalty fare system to punish and deter those who defraud the system; but this is not me. I have already ordered a replacement rail card ready to book my return journey back to Brighton when university commences again in May. I have included as evidence copies of: the penalty fare notice; receipt for the payment of the penalty; police reference number card; screen shot of my rail card account; screen shot showing I have reported my rail card lost and ordered another; and finally, the receipt for the tickets I purchased on the 23/03 along with my boyfriend’s ticket, as my ticket was retained by the ticket inspector. I ask that you take the information into consideration and reconsider the penalty fare. Yours sincerely,

Hi, back in august I just broke up with my partner and was feeling very upset so took a train from liverpool to St. Helens to go see my parents, I bought a return ticket. Whilst I was there I was upset so decided I would stay the night and travel home next day. Next day I took the train home and nobody came to check tickets on the train, I got to the barriers, to the side was a small stand where people could buy tickets. I went straight through the gates with my return ticket and went to hand it to the officer checking instead, as I was passing it over I noticed the return date was for the previous day. I went over and explained to him I'd bought the return not realizing it was a same day one as I travel quite a bit and usually a return is open for the month, apologised and said I'd have to buy a ticket. The officer got very nasty and started saying he wanted my details as this was fare evasion. I was quite shocked and tried to explain I work in compliance myself and would never do that, it was quite clearly a mistake just by looking at the dates on my ticket, I hadn't handed in a random old ticket or wasn't like I didn't have one. plus I was extremely upset over my breakup and didn't even cross my mind, it was the return part to a the journey and I hadnt relized it had ran out, I hadn't checked it as hadn't had any reason to as far as I thought! He was so rude and I stupidly said "I'm probably on more money then you why would I try and avoid paying 3.90??" More because I was so offended and confused why he was speaking to me like dirt and accusing me of this. It would make no sense to pay more to buy a return knowing it would be of date if I was going to fare evade?! Plus I was the one who pointed the mistake out to him and said I had to buy one?! But anyway he took my details, confirmed them and off I went. I got a letter in December askin me to give my version of events so I sent it in. Now I have received a court summons accusing me of abusive language and attempt to fare Avade?! He claims after givin my details I walked away and said "go **** yourself" which I honestly never! Why would I give in my details, let him confirm them and then swear at him?? That would be stupid! I'm so upset. I haven't purposely done anything wrong, I already suffer with depression and anxiety and don't know what to do here. I'm a single mum and if I get a criminal record I could lose my job as I'm a civil servant workin in compliance. .I actually work to prevent fraud not go out there and commit it!!! Could anyone give me advice on what to do please?? Surely they can see the CCTV and see I approach him and point it out and hear I never swore?? Wouldn't he have to provide proof of this??

So i was travelling on a train without a ticket because I had forgotten it. When i was questioned, I initially gave a false name and address. Now the train company has taken this to the magistrates court and i face conviction. I am a healthcare professional and so i really cannot afford to have a criminal conviction. What do i do? Will this effect my ability to get a job in the future?

Hello everyone - thank you in advance for any help you're able to give me. I have been sent a court summons for travelling without having previously paid the fare and with the intention to avoid payment. I would like some advice please because I do not think I am guilty, yet would prefer to pay than go to court. The situation is that last October I was travelling from London to commuter-land after work. It's not a journey I do at all regularly. I had a railcard for London zones 1-3 and as I was running slightly late for the train I asked the member of staff by the ticket barrier in London if it was OK to buy the remainder of my ticket at the other end - i.e. from the boundary of zone 3 to my destination. He said this was fine. On arrival I explained this to the staff at the ticket barriers and they let me through to buy a ticket, whereupon I joined the queue. I was supposed to be met by my mother and I saw her in the foyer from the queue. I shouted out to her and she, thinking that my voice was coming from elsewhere (she's quite deaf), turned to walk out of the station. I left the queue and walked after her, reaching her just at the exit to the station. I was about to give her a hug and say hello when the Revenue Protection Assistant ran up to me and accused me of fare evasion, etc. because I was outside the station boundary. I cooperated and answered all the questions, and was very civil to him. The thing I didn't tell him, because I didn't think at the time that it was relevant, was that I was only making this journey to visit my mum and grandmother because my grandfather had passed away two days previously. It was a highly emotional time and the first time I had seen my mum since she'd lost her dad. Obviously giving her a proper hug was a more important priority at that moment than paying the £8 ticket, although I had every intention to do so. I was sent a letter asking for my details etc back in January and I wrote in response giving this additional info because I believe it was a mitigating factor. And then yesterday I received my court summons. It's a first offence, and yes, I did travel without previously having paid for the whole journey, but I checked with a member of staff beforehand and they said that it was fine. I had every intention of paying for the full journey. It was absolutely not my intention to avoid the fare. I am happy to pay a fine, but I am very worried about getting a criminal reference - I work in the civil service and am at the beginning of my career. I don't want to plead guilty because I don't think I am guilty of having the intention of avoiding payment. However, I also do not want to go to court and would prefer to settle and quickly and painlessly as possible. I'm really quite worried about this and have no idea how to go forward... What should I do? Any advice would be much appreciated! Many many thanks.

Both times were after getting on a free-travel zone, but basically going further on when the free-travel zone ended. I just wondered what punishment i'm looking at? The first time i paid an on the spot fine of £40, but this time he said because i've done it before in the past year, he will pass a report onto the TFL? I understand i will most likely be prosecuted, and have a criminal record? Or will it be worse that i've done it before in the same year? Also, in terms of the fine what am i looking at? How much will i pay? I don't have a job atm, so i'm a bit worried how much i will have to pay? Anyone know a ballpark figure of what the fine will be? Thanks guys.

Morning I got a penalty fare for travelling without a ticket in January this year. The ticket machine at the station wasn't working. I took the charge and was told I could and should query it. I also bought a ticket to travel that day I got a fine of £20, plus the original ticket price of £23.80 I appealed, and was successful, but they then wanted to charge me the price of the ticket. I queried this on the penaltyfares.co.uk website as per the instructions but received an email advising that despite the above, both the original fare and an additional £20 charge (unexplained) are due and that no further discussions could take place So essentially, the independent appeals body which is wholly owned by the rail company, are saying: TOUGH. PAY IT What I'd like help with is where to go from here? There is a further, truly independent body called Passenger Focus, but they aren't able to affect the appeals decision I'm in the right here, and I'm not willing to roll over and pay this fine because someone decided I should. It's wrong But I don't know what else I can do? I have just received a FINAL DEMAND for £63.80 and there are no contact details other than the address they provide for sending payment into Can anyone help? I basically want to fight this Thanks in advance

Hi. I have been looking into the SRA Rules, Railway By-laws and a friend's Penalty Fare Notice. One or two things aren't covered, as far as I can tell, so I thought I'd see if anyone on here might have an opinion or some references to legislation. My friend doesn't need advice on how to deal with the PFN, this is simply a theoretical exercise to round off my understanding of the possible consequences of two scenarios: 1. A passenger without a valid ticket is stopped by a revenue collector upon attempting to leave a station. Upon questioning, the passenger provides their name and address, but refuses to comment further. What might happen? I understand that refusal to supply details of the journey taken may be detrimental to a defence, but on the other hand can any journey be proven to have taken place without the passenger's admittance? Would you be liable to on-the-spot arrest for fare evasion? 2. A PFN is appealed, but by then RPSS, on behalf of LM, wants a £20, then a £40 administration charge just for the privilege of the passenger having to await and then dispute the unfavourable Appeal Decision. If the PFN is then paid, there will be no chance of prosecution, I assume (as the only unpaid fare was the Penalty Fare), and so if RPSS want their charges paid they would have to make a civil claim for the admin fees alone. Do they actually ever do that? It could be argued that collection should have been put on hold whilst the PFN was under appeal, or until at least a few days after the Appeal Decision, as opposed to jumping in straight away with added charges at the same time the Decision was notified. The amount of the fees could be disputed, I would think, as £20 per standard form letter is obviously a lot more than the admin costs would actually amount to. The PFN was, and is, if they carry on, being fought on three points, FYI, which were lack of Warning Notices at New Street, failure to give the passenger a copy of the PFN (they could and should have posted it after the passenger walked off without taking it according to my interpretation of the Regulations, 'give' being held to its dictionary definition in the absence of a specific meaning in the legislation) and failure to advise the passenger of their right to appeal the PFN. The Revenue Collection Officer actually said that the passenger had lost their right of appeal due to not signing the PFN (which isn't a requirement, nor is giving them your DOB, BTW).

During my Easter break (whilst at home from university) I boarded a train from Redcar to Middlesbrough, and with my railcard this journey was £2.30. Unknown to me at the time, my bank cards do not work offline, and so would not work in the train conductors card machine. I then filled out the appropriate paperwork with the intention of paying the fare by phone. I rang the northern rail payment service to pay the fare the next day and was informed by the lady on the phone that they had not received the bill yet, and that she would write it in the records that I had attempted to pay the fare. The next day I returned to university in London for my Summer exams, and consequently forgot all about the fare, and also received none of the reminder letters as they went to my home address in Redcar. On returning home from university I realised the time that I had to pay the fare had passed, and had a letter stating I needed to pay an £80 fine, or that I could appeal this fine. I appealed by post, and a few weeks later (when I was away for the week) northern rail rang my home number and a lady over the phone told my mum that I would receive a court date, when asked about the appeal the woman replied that they hadn't received an appeal, only to then say that she had fount it, but that the matter had gone too far now and they would take me to court. So my hearing is on the 8th November, and according to the letter I can either plead guilty and pay the £100 court cost or plead not guilty to fare evasion and attend a hearing and then a trial. So far my intention is to plead not guilty, as obviously I have attempted to pay the fare and to appeal the fine, and so pleading guilty to fare evasion seems unjust to me. But do you think I have a chance of winning the case? And if I attempt to would this end up costing me even more? Many thanks, Charis.

Transport for London (TfL) is today launching a public consultation seeking customers' views on proposals to withdraw cash fare payments on London buses. Since the introduction of the Oyster card in 2003, and the launch of contactless payment cards on London's buses last year, more and more passengers are now appreciating the convenience and value for money these options offer. This year cash fares will make up less than one per cent of bus journeys - down from 25 per cent in 2000 - and TfL is now putting proposals to passengers that would see cash fare payments on London buses ending in 2014. Paying with Oyster or a contactless payment card guarantees the cheapest fare, currently £1 less than a cash fare. Consultation now open - have your say A public consultation is available on the TfL website (tfl.gov.uk/cashless). This consultation closes on 11 October 2013.

Hi all, Does anyone know if it says anywhere that we are actually bound to accept an Unpaid Fare Notice when it is issued? I did not accept one and now have a letter through the post as if I did. DETAILS____ A month, or so, back I boarded a later train from Leeds to London after missing my train 10 mins before. The guard (forcefully) tried to hand me an Unpaid Fare Notice after it was clear I could not pay the inflated price for the service. I gave my proper details when asked and told the guard that I would not be accepting the UFN and that if they wanted to settle things they could send me a bill through the post - which I would then dispute. I did not accept the terms of the Notice and felt it had been misleadingly presented to me. origianal ticket was £69 --- UFN was £124. I would not have boarded the train had I known the price of the ticket + BTW the train was by no means full! I believe I have a case to argue but want to check that I was not obliged by law to accept the notice, there and then. I feel i'm in for the long haul with fighting this so want to start off well! Thanks in advance!

Hi Guys, Recently, I was working nearby Staines station, and decided to get the train to work (I had been since travelling by bus) I topped up £10 on my Oyster at Richmond and started my journey. When I tried to tap out on the yellow reader at Staines it said "card not recognised" Confused, I approached a member of staff to help. They said Oysters weren't valid at that station. I was frustrated as I knew the Oyster card would charge me an excess fare. Even so, I apologised to the inspector and asked how much a paper ticket was so I could buy one. She said she would need to issue me with a penalty fare. Her manner was dismissive and rude. The ordeal cost me to be late for work and accumulate an Oyster charge. On top of that was the £20 fine they were asking for. I appealed to IAS and received only an automated reply. I did notice that it had been about a month since I submitted the appeal but was hoping they had just dismissed it. Today I received a letter demanding £50 for an outstanding balance and administration charges. It stated I had received a request for an outstanding balance and I had not l paid within the requested 14 days ! I politely replied that I had not received any previous correspondence and enclosed £20. I'm really quite upset about this situation. It's possible that I may have missed the email (as my inbox is quite busy) but this letter implies my appeal was rejected , and they have taken the first possible opportunity to charge me further. I feel disgusted with the train companies lack of humanity. Is there anything I can do about this situation ? Do you think they will leave me alone or will I be hearing back from them ? Thanks for your help guys

I hope this forum can help me as I came across it during a google search on what to do in this scenario. Let me explain what has happened: I caught a train from a station that had no ticket machine, that I have used many times before paying the conductor when he comes down the train. On this day, his machine decided it wanted to decline my card and I was given an Unpaid Fare Notice, and told to take this to the nearest ticket office to pay off the ticket within 14 days. Later the same day, when I was at my destination, I proceeded to the ticket office and handed over the notice in exchange for a return ticket for the same price from where I boarded the train to where I got off. I thought that was done with as he took away the paper notice I was given. About 2 weeks later I was sent a letter in the post saying they had not received my payment and wanted to charge me £40 on top of the current fee. [EDIT] I'd done exactly what the conductor said and paid the exact charge written on the notice to a member off rail staff, and ignored the letter. Now I've received a further letter, asking for £80 + the rail fair, and that I will be taken to a Magistrates Court and charged £150 in fees if they do not receive this. Being unemployed and in debt I cannot afford and quite frankly refuse to pay that much money for a ticket worth £8.90. I even have the train tickets I was given by me. I am unsure what to do as of now, whether I should contact a lawyer and defend myself in the court, or I should write to the rail company, although this has caused me undue stress and inconvenience with these 'threats' when I owe them no money. I don't understand why I should be fined for this or even taken to court, as I have followed exactly what the conductor said, and paid off my debt. Please help! Thank you, Sean.

Hi My boyfriend and I got caught trying to catch a short fare. I have received my fine and paid it (last Friday 12/7/13) but his has yet to come through. We both know we were in the wrong and are willing to pay the fine, but we have a problem that we are going away soon for over a month. As FGW only give you 10 days to pay the fine before they take you to court, does anyone know of any measures he can take before we leave in case it arrives while we're away? He doesn't want to go through the whole prosecution process just because we weren't here to pay the fine. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hi there I'm new to this site, so will let others decide where this should be! This is just a bit of advice for other Oyster card users. I was challenged the other day on a bus for non-payment by an Inspector. I was pretty sure that I'd paid - I had definitely touched my card on the reader - and my son who was behind me confirmed this. The machine didn't make a noise for a failed transaction, nor did the bus driver make any comment. For those who haven't experienced an inspection, the Inspector checks your card by touching it with a hand-held electronic reader. I challenged him to prove that I hadn't paid and he couldn't. However, because the penalty for a failed appeal is very steep - £80 - I handed over the reduced £40 fine as I happened to have that amount of cash on me. Anyway, the moral is always check your Oyster account online at the first opportunity if you're issued with a fine. Journeys for the last 7 days are recorded. I've just done this and, sure enough, my payment for that journey is logged! I certainly wouldn't hand over any money if this happened again without checking my account first. Obviously these checks are not reliable, and it's pretty sloppy of TfL if you're going to accuse people of dishonesty. Although judging by the reaction of the other passengers who were urging me (loudly) not to pay it's not an uncommon experience. Needless to say, I have written a letter asking for my money back.

A couple of weeks ago i was travelling from Crewe to Stockport and due to a change in my circumstances i hadn't bought a return ticket. I had to rush home as a close family member had been taken to hospital and i wasn't thinking straight. I ran for the train and just got on. When i arrived at Stockport, my head wasn't in the right place and i had said i had traveled from Wilmslow instead of Crewe. Eventually i told the truth when i had calmed down a bit. I went to pay at the exit and my card wasn't accepted in the machine. I also offered to go under supervision to the cash point to get the required money but this was rejected. They took my details and said they would be in contact. I received the letter last week and i sent it back explaining what had happened. I was just wondering what i would be liable to pay and if i would need to go to court. Also i am due to fly to America to do my second year of University study there in August and i would like this to be solved by then. Does anyone have any idea how long these cases take to finish?