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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Cabot - HSBC Current Account from 2000


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Hi,

 

I have read through a number of posts but only managed to confuse myself more, so thought i'd better just post.

 

I have an old HSBC Current Account that I think was sold on in around 2000/2001 (memory a little hazy) to a DCA (but I cannot remember which one) and I paid them £1 a month.

 

Around 2013 Cabot bought the debt and I continued to pay £1 a month.

This was a joint account which they refused to acknowledge,

said it was only in my name and they had no record of my partner on the debt - great!

 

So fast forward to today.

 

I stopped paying them in July this year,

completely forgot as was paying by postal order

- my own fault, and have since received the following letters:

 

05/10/2017

"Welcome to Cabot Credit Management Group that own your HSBC Bank Current Account. We have recently confirmed you are living at the above address and need to make you aware that we are now responsible for helping you manage your account and receiving future payments" Then a bit about contacting them etc.

 

22/10/2017

"We have recently confirmed that you are living at the above address. We do this through a variety of checks, so we're confident we have the correct address for you. We need to talk to you to arrange a repayment plan on your account; we can help you find an affordable solution.

 

06/11/2017

A bit about understanding how it's difficult to clear debt, we want to help etc then "We own your account and are prepared to reduce the balance in order to help you become free of this debt sooner. If you would like to take up this offer call us"

 

I have a couple of questions:

 

I have looked at other forum messages advising sending a CCA but I don't think this would apply to me as its a current account - is that correct?

 

What would be the route for me to follow if I can't go down the CCA road?

 

I've seen some info on pre 2007 agreements - does this have any bearing on my case?

 

Can Cabot put the debt back on my credit file as a default, as i've stopped paying, even though its over 6 years old?

 

I'm sorry for the long post and thank you very much for reading :oops:

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Welcome To CAG :)

 

Yes, Current Accounts dont have a CCA and no they shouldnt put the default back on your CRA if after 6 years it has fallen off.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Cabot doesnt chase legit debts. They sent you phishing letters suggesting they have confirmed you live there, but thats it. Go SAR the bank and get the full info on the account and find out why they sold the debt to cabot.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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It may well be a joint current account...but a creditor can pursue either of the parties under joint and several terms of the facility...so Carboot not acknowledging its a joint debt is irrelevant.

 

Where parties act together in agreement as partners, they have joint and several liability. In addition to all the partners being responsible together, each partner is also liable individually for the entire agreement. This means a creditor could recover an entire debt from any partner individually, leaving that person to recover their shares from the rest of the partners.

 

I personally would just resume the £1 per month payment possibly until its passed on again.

 

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank-you for the responses :-)

 

I have just been fighting through my understairs 'cave' to see if I could find any old paperwork and have come across something more of a timeline - seems the debt is mostly made up from a loan and not overdraft fees at all - this is what i've found:

 

22/11/2001 - Letter from Robinson Way on behalf of First Direct chasing original amount of £4899.03

 

20/02/2002 - Letter from DMA (not sure who they are) with a payment agreement of £20 a month. On that letter i've written loan - £3214.59 & C/A (presumably current account) £1331.57

 

I've also received letters from Cap Quest, HL Legal, Central Debt Enforcement Agency and Keppe and Partners - all pre-dating 2007

 

Typically I can't find all the original Cabot letters but the most recent one states the debt is at £3855.

 

As it was First Direct should I SAR them or HSBC? Also does the fact Cabot are not mentioning that they are chasing a loan and a current account, but lumped it all into 'a current account', make any difference?

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ALWAYS always SAR the OC, the fact that Cabrot have lumped the two amounts together, simply means they've not a cats chance in hell of ever getting that enforced in court, because it's two separate agreements, with two completely separate T&C's, including interest rates, penalty fees yadda yadda yadda.

 

You can of course CCA them for the Loan, but as they have lumped two separate accounts together, they're never going to find it, IMHO I'd not pay them a penny.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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So they merged everything into one. Tut tut. Not allowed to do that. No wonder it was sold on.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Oh wow thanks guys - won't lie, just nearly shed a tear of joy at their wrongdoing!! This is the final millstone (all other debtors accepted a settlement figure in 2002) that came from a nasty relationship and I would be overjoyed to not have to worry about it any more.

 

I'll send the SAR off to First Direct then, so i've got all the info I need, and just ignore Cabot for now.

 

Thanks again for your help :)

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first direct are HSBC

HSBC had a nasty habit of doing something called a managed loan.

 

they lumped everything together

turned it into a loan

then dump it back into the current account as a massive OD which you never asked for nor agreed to.

 

then they sell it on the DCA fleecers.

 

if you use our search cag box of the red top toolbar

 

hsbc managed loan

 

they've never won a case where we've helped defend it in court

if they are stupid enough to issue one.

 

have YOU written to cabot or any DCA since you've been at your current address?

if not you are in danger of a backdoor CCJ being served to an old address

 

no don't pay them IMHO

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Blinkin heck - swines aren't they!

 

No I haven't had any communication with them since 2013 - apart from an email they sent me in February this year, asking me to set up a payment plan, after I changed from paying standing order to postal order. I think I logged into my online account - stupidly! I had a payment plan set up as per their 2013 letter so I just ignored the email.

 

Oh no, a backdoor CCJ worries me - i've worked so hard to restore my credit file and want to buy a house next year so this is a bit of a concern. Would they not have to give reference to a CCJ in the 3 letters they have recently sent to this address?

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You wont get a CCJ if you follow the advice here. Theyre trying to con you. You nee to get a strong head, and take control.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Yes you can check Trust online, to see if they've got a CCJ against you, costs, £8 I think (?)

 

CHeck your credit file also, and see what's on there if anything.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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nope. Only CCJs that have been granted. Meaning it went to court, a order was granted against you and you failed to pay within 28 days after judgement.

 

Your debt has done the rounds of various DCA's so its obvious its well and truely unenforceable. Theyre passing it around ans saying to each other.. here, have a go at this one. Theyre gullible and pays up no questions asked.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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in some way form or manner

you need to write to cabot so they have your correct address.

 

what balance are they chasing?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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sorry you say that above

so I bet you never were granted a £4k overdraft were you on your bank account by first direct?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes they have the correct address now, since the beginning of October. I've no idea where they got it from - possibly one of the free credit checking sites?

 

No, I definitely didn't have an overdraft that big - feel a bit dim that I hadn't realised all this before :|

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if they significantly changed your o/d after feb 2011, then the new o/d regs may apply. ie they wld need to have furnished the terms of it. difficult if it was an 'amalgamation'.

a side issue atm to poss consider should things go all the way.

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Yes they have the correct address now, since the beginning of October. I've no idea where they got it from - possibly one of the free credit checking sites?

 

No, I definitely didn't have an overdraft that big - feel a bit dim that I hadn't realised all this before :|

you still need to write to cabot

you have nottold them nor the original creditor of your present address

 

these are phishing letter

 

they typically offer discounts

 

then when you don't respond

they issue a claimform using an old address.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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