HFO Services Scaring my 15 Year Old Daughter - COURT ACTION !!!

[datasafe]

Today, 31st August 2008 I received a phone call from my 15 year old daughter.

 

I have been seperated from my wife fo 5 years and moved home twice during the last 5 years.

 

My daughter was in tears as what she described as an Indian man had rung her home and he basically told her the bailiffs would be calling, they can call at any time and they will take away anything they want.

 

This is absolutely scandalous, she was really upset and scared asking 'when will they come dad' and 'will they take my computer away'.

 

I'm a mild mannered man but this has infuriated me so much that I really would 'knock him out' if I had the opportunity.

 

This whole matter concerns an alleged debt to the phone company Three and goes back over 3 years and is in dispute.

 

What can I do? I'm not so concerned about the debt but to 'threaten' a 15 year old girl is just beyond belief.

 

Cheers

 

John

Edited March 11, 2009 by datasafe
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[berrylover]

You need to send a strongly worded letter to them. Tell them you are going to report them to OFCOM for scaring your daughter. Tell them that you want all further correspondance in writing only and reassure your daughter that they cannot send a baliff to take anything. Only the court can do that. Obviously if it is in your ex wife's name then she needs to do this, but tell your daughter they were just doing it to try and scare her.

[noomill060]

A bailiff can call only of there has been a court judgement given in the creditors favour.

[noomill060]

Has your ex been taken to court and lost?

[sillygirl1]

You need to get her two write everything down she remembers and send the letter to Wimbledon Police Station for the attention of the Duty Officer... that will get the ball rolling as they are allegedly based in Wimbledon and therefore complaints to the police station there should yield results - also send the letter to the local council there, Merton Council, Crown House, Morden, Surrey as they too are interested in this bunch of morons. They are hiding behind an Indian call centre as they think they can get away with anything as Indian law doesn't operate over here - if that is the case then they can't take you to court over here as we don't recognise Indian law... their main parent company is based in the Cayman Islands...

 

Complain very loudly to their local police here, and they will investigate them - there is NO WAY a bailiff will call round unless you have had a court order and broken the order.

[surprise]

Plus a complaint to the ICO - you can do this on line - they have broken data protection guidelines by discussing your business with your daughter as clearly they weren't talking to you. I've got a complaint with the ICO for the same reason.

 

Make sure your complaint is worded strongly.

[palomino]

Sadly the regulatory bodies are now requiring you to have exhausted the DCAs own complaints procedure first. The police is the exception although they won't be very enthusiastic unless you press your case.

If this happens again then you can lodge a complaint with the police for harassment under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997 (you need to have a minimum of two instances for it to be construed as harassment).

 

 

So, I guess you will have to lodge a formal complaint with HFO to start with. If you do you shouldn't treat them gently.

 

Incidentally isn't it also against Data Protection guidelines to transfer your data outside the UK?? I expect they will say that it is allowed for your mobile phone contract, so that's good reason to ask for a copy of it and verify what they say.

[eastendboy]

Every thing I would wish to say has been said above already:)

[gymfreak1978]

this lot are worse than moorcroft

[DonkeyB]

It's definitely worth a complaint to the police about this, even if it just causes them trouble (020 8947 1212). HFO's registered address is just a postal address, no-one works there. They operate from the same place as their 'solicitors', Turnbull Rutherford, and the address is

 

Highland House

165 The Broadway

Wimbledon

London SW19 1NE

 

Although the call almost certainly came from the Indian office, this address points you at the responsible party. Get these details off to your local trading standards as well. They don't play by any rules, so don't have any qualms about taking any steps necessary. Your daughter is a minor, and their actions are both illegal, inaccurate and totally indefensible.

 

Good luck & keep us updated.

[fuzzybobble]

This has shocked me into wondering how low can the DCA's actually go? Hassling people and reducing a girl to tears is another.

 

Follow the advice everyone has given so far. Don't be afraid to stand up and realise the debt collectors are afraid of websites like this one. Once on here, you'll get real help to fight back and know your true legal rights.

 

It's time for you and your daughter to fight back against these DCA prasites. And on here you'll have all the backing and support from a fantastic bunch of people, who will help you every step of the way.

 

Don't give up. Just by posting on here has already more than halved your problems.

 

Welcome to the Consumer Action Group Debt Forum. Fuzzybobble.

[Fred Bassett]

Yes, a problem shared is a problem fuzzybobbled. Wait until he lets the bees loose.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[datasafe]

Thanks for the replies chaps,

 

I went to see my daughter this morning as she starts back at school tomorrow.

 

I explained to her what it was all about and ressured her as best I could, She's okay now but was clearly upset and worried.

 

I think the actinons of this company are absolutely disgusting. They evidentally employ some ****.

 

John

[gymfreak1978]

the problem is the phone monkeys are on commision if you dont pay them over of the phone when they ring then they dont get paid

 

they do not have your wellfare at heart, they are interested in number one, yes they are **** usually unintellignet what cant gain proper paid employment.

[datasafe]

I'm in the process of putting a few letters of complaint together in respect of this matter.

 

One problem is, I don't want to reveal my present address to HFO Services. Should I therefore send my complaint by letter WITHOUT my address & by email where they can contact me?

 

Any advice?

 

Cheers

 

John

[datasafe]

UPDATE:

 

I have written several letters and emails to various organisation:

 

Trading Standards - Merton Council

Office of Fair Trading

Wimbledon Police and

HFO by recorded delivery

 

I just had a phone call from Sgt. Rice of Wimbledon police and he did say, it was a civil matter, however, he agreed to ring HFO and ask them to STOP ringing me. Sgt. Rice then rang me back and said he'd spoken to someone at HFO and they will not ring me again.

 

Some success at last.

 

I would however like HFO to feel the pain & distress they inflicted on my daughter,

 

Which organisation controls the activities of Debt Collection Agencies? I might just as well write to them too while I'm on a roll

 

Incidentally, I didn't receive a reply from HFO since sending my recorded delivery letter and, they've still been phoning me - from India.

[palomino]

 

Which organisation controls the activities of Debt Collection Agencies? I might just as well write to them too while I'm on a roll

 

They have their own organisation - the CSA CSA Website

But this is little more than a 'let's pat each other on the back' type of organisation. They have rules and regulations but no-one seems to be bothered when the members break them.

The other approach is to make a formal complaint to the Financial Services Authority (FSA). Unfortunately you have to have exhausted the DCA's own complaints procedure first. In any case the FSA is many months behind with investigating and resolving complaints.

 

 

 

Incidentally, I didn't receive a reply from HFO since sending my recorded delivery letter and, they've still been phoning me - from India.

 

Time for a formal complaint to the police under the provisions of Section 1 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1998. Try your Sgt Rice again and emphasise that it is now a criminal matter under the above Act.

[datasafe]

Okay, time for an update!

 

Yesterday I received a summons from HFO's solicitors.

 

As so much has gone on between myself & my family and this **** company called HFO Services - includings formal letters warning them of harrassment, involvement of the police etc etc, I'm tempted to make a counterclaim against them for:

 

Harrassment

Distress caused to my children

Distress to myself and partner

All the time taken in dealing with the constant phone calls

Court costs etc etc etc.

 

Question:

Is this something I can do? If so, I was thinking of claiming £750 + costs.

 

That law says:

"A person must not pursue a course of conduct - (a) which amounts to harassment of another, and (b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other. (2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other."

 

 

Any tips?

 

Am I just wasting my time?

 

Cheers

 

John

Edited February 27, 2009 by datasafe

[DonkeyB]

First of all, it's most important let's defend the claim. Can you give us a whole lot more background, eg. age of debt, whether it's a credit card or bank account, any default notices and notices of assignment you've had, CCA requests, letter before action, etc? Was the claim served via Northampton? What other communication have you had from them? Give us a timeline if you can.

 

Then the real fun will begin...

[datasafe]

Thanks for the reply.

 

It's going to take me a little while to gather all the information together as it relates to mobile phone contracts with Hutchinson 3G back in 2004. I have moved home twice since then!

 

In brief:

I bought 2 phones on contract with 3 including insurance. These were as Christmas presents (Christmas 2004 I think) for 2 of my children. Both phones developed faults and had to be returned to 3 for repair on at least 2 occasions. On the 2nd occasion, 3 mislaid the phones and I was passed from 'pillar to post' trying to find what happened to them. After about 8 weeks of no phones, I eventually gave up with 3 and purchased replacement phones for my 'nagging' children with another phone operator. I cancelled my monthly Direct Debit Mandate to 3 as I was so frustrated at the lack of assistance from them

 

A short while later, both phones were returned to me - neither had been repaired!

 

Phone 1:

3 stated the charging pins in the base of the phone had been damaged and therefore would not be covered by the insurance. These pins cannot be seen so how my daughter could have alledgedly damaged them is beyond me.

 

Phone2:

3 sent me a photo copied picture of the internals of the phone purporting to llustrate water damage. The image showed nothing and when I examined the phone, there was absolutely no evidence of water damage whatsoever. Water damage is not covered by the insurance.

 

3 were featured on BBC's Watchdog programme for being the worst phone operator to honour insurance claims and inventing ways to rebut any insurance claims.

 

The forthcoming letter from 3 demanding payment started to arrive and I wrote to 3 telling them that I disputed the request for payment as they'd lost the phones and my children had no use of the contract. I made an offer to pay for any outstanding calls and for any outstanding contract charges to the date when 3 lost them. From then on, I received no replies from 3.

 

I then started getting letters from Buchanon Wells (I think). I replied to them informing them of the circumstances and the reason I disputed the charges.

 

I believe I subsequently received letters from anouther debt collection agency but have to check on this.

 

The real problems for me started about june last year when HFO Services started calling me. At first, because there'd been so much time in between, I couldn't understand what they were on about. I asked them to send me full details of the alleged claim - I never received these details. I did inform HFO that if it related to the matter of the lost phones that the matter had been in dispute for many years.

 

Then started the barrage of phone calls to my home, to my mobile and to the home of my children where I'd not lived for 4 years. I was informed in one call from HFO that the calls would only stop if I paid the amount claimed - Julie THOMSON the HFO caller actually stated they would 'harrass' me until payment was made in full and this was the only way they would cease.

 

Things became so intollerable with the constant stream of abusive & threatening phone calls (detailled above), I rang the police in Wimbledon who in turn contacted HFO and asked them to cease the harrassing calls, but not even this stopped them.

 

I will have to spend sometime to go through all my papers and dig out what I have. So the above is from memory.

 

The claim has come from Northampton.

 

Sorry it's a little vague at the moment but I'm in work just now. There is always going to be a difficulty when so much time has passed by and moving twice in the intervening period adds to the problem.

 

Cheers

 

John

Edited February 27, 2009 by datasafe

[DonkeyB]

That's fine John. The important thing is you already have the basis of a defence, so you need to acknowledge service within 14 days. You then get 28 days to file your defence. You can do this online.

 

As you say, 3 are notorious for the way the sell on debts, and HFO are notorious for their collection methods. If you have claimed a dispute on the debt, it's up to HFO now to prove there is no dispute.

 

You also need to use CPR to get info from HFO. It would help if you could post the (edited) particulars of claim which are on the claim form.

 

A counterclaim is also possible, but we can look at this after we sort your defence.

[datasafe]

Another Update:

 

I've been wading through my piles of papers and I have found 2 letter received from HFO Services dated 15th July 2008.

 

The letters refer to 'assignment' letters sent to me. I can't find these letters and to be honest, I don't recall receiving them - I certainly wouldn't have thrown them away.

 

Going through all the other related stuff I have I discovered correspondence between the following and me:

 

Three Credit Management

Robinson Way Solicitors

Buchanan Clark & Wells

HFO Services

 

I have copies of emails, letters & faxes sent to each of these organisations disputing thepayments on the basis that Three failed to repair the phones and lost one sent to them in July that wasn't returned until September - Not repaired.

 

One of these phones returned from a previous fault was a refurbished one. This is the same phone that Three state could not be repaired under insurance because the charging pins were bent and repair would have to be paid for!

 

I also have details of phone calls between myself and HFO informing them the bills were in dispute. Also the Harrassment warning letters sent to both HFO and their solicitors by recorded delivery.

 

I need to put some meat on the bones of all this information to present my version to the court and the reason for not disputing the bills.

 

I also have a Which Magazine report that states 1 in 3 of the phones provided by Three fail within the 1st 12 months and that Three are least likely to repair under warranty.

 

So that's where I am at just now.

 

Cheers

 

John

Edited March 3, 2009 by datasafe

[DonkeyB]

Another Update:

 

I've been wading through my piles of papers and I have found 2 letter received from HFO Services dated 15th July 2008.

 

The letters refer to 'assignment' letters sent to me. I can't find these letters and to be honest, I don't recall receiving them - I certainly wouldn't have thrown them away.

 

Nothing new there - if you read other HFO threads, you'll see there's a pattern of documents turning up in evidence which had 'previously' been sent out (and, of course, they hadn't been).

 

It also seems clear that the DCAs have either returned debts to 3 or have passed them on when in dispute, before 3 sold the disputed debt to HFO - this is against FSA Debt Collections guidelines and the CSA code. It's good that you have evidence of this as it proves the account was in dispute.

 

I'm no expert at preparing a defence, but I imagine someone like 42man will be along to help you out and distill the facts.

[datasafe]

Thanks for the reply again and the information.

 

I guess I need to get details of the rules Three/HFO have broken FSA, DCA etc.

 

What gets me about all this is the real hastle factor. These phones go back to December 2004 and here we are, 4 years on and I'm summoned to court.

 

With all the best will in the World, it's very dificult to keep record of every phone call, fax, email etc etc. It's all very trying and to be honest, if I can make HFO 'pay' for their apalling methods - e.g. Leaving a message on an answerfone at a home I've not resided at for 5 years;

 

"xyz, you should be really scared now.... blah blah".

 

Are DCAs allowed to add a disputed debt to a credit reference list?

 

I look forward to hearing from anyone who can help me get this together in a way I can defend the claim and make a counterclaim against HFO.

 

Cheers

[DonkeyB]

Do you still have that recorded message? Now that could be fun and an excellent start to a counterclaim...