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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Lowells Claimform - old Doorstep Provi loan - Submitting defence on the last day


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Hi all, first post.

Just got a little question about CCJ defense response times.

 

I filed my defence today (Sunday) online.

 

Today is the last day I have for filing the defence.

I should not of left it till the last day but I was waiting for a response from the claimant which only came the previous day.

 

I had 33 days from the day of service in total to file my defence.

My defence will not be processed by the court until tomorrow which will be the 34th day after the day or service.

 

So my question is

does the defence have to be processed by the court within the time you have to file a defence (in my case 33 days after DOS)

or is it that as long as you have uploaded it before the time runs out you are safe?

 

Thanks

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As long as you submit it before the deadline, youre ok.

 

can i ask if youre able to provide more details on the case?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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As long as you submit it before the deadline – or before the claimant makes an application for judgement. Whichever is the later.

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As long as you submit it before the deadline, youre ok.

 

can i ask if youre able to provide more details on the case?

 

A CCJ claim was made against me by Lowell for a supposed 5 year old Provident loan.

 

 

I have requested a copy of the original signed credit agreement.

 

 

They responded by saying they are waiting for Provident to send them the documentation so they have put the account on hold which is kinda pointless really because I only had 1 day to file a defence.

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Then use the no paperwork holding defence. That needs to be your defence.

 

They may put it on hold internally, but theyre trying to get you to not complete the court paperwork, so they get a judgement by default, then start with bailiffs etc. It's their standard operating trick.

 

Look around on this site for the no paperwork holding defence, and youll be set.

 

The reason they left it so long is to try and get the court timeframe to expire, then youd have been screwed.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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what date is on the top right of the claimform?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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21st March. Day of service is 5 days from that date.

 

Sorry I made a mistake on the original post.

I meant to say 33 days after the date on the letter not day of service.

 

I didn't know about the holding defence on this website

I have already filed the defence stating that I do not owe them any money and that I have made a request for documentation pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules (Part 31.14) but they have failed to provide the signed credit.

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was this a doorstepper loan?

and was this the ONLY loan you had or were there a chain before this

 

your defence was due Friday by 4pm [the claimform date is ONE in the count]

and if day 33 falls on a w/end you must file by the last weekday as the court closes at 4pm so it will be counted as Monday for you

but that's no bother LiP's [litigants in person are allowed lee-way].

 

so you've NOT filed that defence yet on MCOL I hope?

 

stay with me easy to sort this properly

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The defence was filed earlier today.

There was 1 maybe 2 doorstep loans I had from provident before this that were paid off in full.

 

I presumed that it had to be done by Friday and tried to file it on Friday

but I had issues logging in to MoneyClaimOnline

I rang the court up and they told me to email it them.

 

 

They also told me the last day is Monday

but I didn't really trust the math of the guy I spoke to so filed it today through MoneyClaimOnline.

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what defence did you give?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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I just stated that I don't Lowell or Provident any money and that I have asked for a copy of the signed credit agreement on two occasion (one in 2014 and one recently) but they have not been sent. It was more elaborate than that but that's the gist of it.

 

Was there something I should of put?

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can you copy and paste your defence exactly as filed please by email

 

go up on mcol and see if you can get in if you can

then we'll give you the correct defence to file.

 

you did send the claimant a CCa request didn't you?

as the CPR is only a request that they don't HAVe to even comply with

 

were the previous loans totally paid off or do you mean your last loan settled the one before it?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I believe that I do not owe any money to Lowell or the original creditor

 

In December 2014 Lowell was sent a letter asking for a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature.

I did not receive any such document.

 

At the beginning of April 2017 another letter was sent to Lowell asking for a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature.

 

Lowell have replied stating that the account is now on hold as they await for the Original creditor to respond.

 

The request is pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules (Part 31.14) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

 

you did send the claimant a CCa request didn't you?

as the CPR is only a request that they don't HAVe to even comply with

 

dx

 

No I dont think I did send a CCA.

 

 

The reason being is I did some reading up about it at the time and some forum somewhere mentioned that CCA is no good because it asks for a "True" copy of the credit agreement which does not have to be a copy of the original signed credit agreement.

CPR.pdf

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crap website then. yo ALWAYS send a CCA request when the Particulars of claim mention the Consumer credit Act.

 

a CPR can be ignored

and as this was a doorstepper loan

you should also request in the CPR copy of the relevant pages of the Doorsteppers accounts notebook

they'll NEVER produce those as they are usually fiddled to allow the agent to avoid tax and hide the commission they were making on the side.

 

can you go and see if you can login to mcol please

 

I've made you CPR a hidden file that only siteteam and you can see it as templates should be in the public forum.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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if you emailed the defence it cant be showing on mcol surely?

 

 

hang on

i'll find you one.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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click respond to a claim

make sure [AOS} is shown and done

then you select the file defence box

 

 

2 mins

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I filed the defense on MCOL. I did not send the email because I managed to login today. MCOL must of had some network issues on Friday.

 

Unless there is something I am missing I will not be able to edit my defense on MCOL.

The only thing I can do now is email them another defence as an extension of what is already filed on MCOL and make out I needed more space than what MCOL's 400 or so characters provide.

 

Also, to answer your question previously yes the previous loans were paid off in full.

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so theres nowhere that indicates you can edit it

I don't think there is but check.

 

if not don't worry

 

all you do is this:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?474636-Lowell-claimform-old-provident-Doorstep-LOan-debt-no.2.

 

look at post 1 in the above thread

CHECK that the particulars of YOUR CLAIMFORM

are the same as post 1 [bar your personal stuff.!!]

 

if they are

 

then pop to post 23 in that thread and use that defence

you DONT post the red bit

and remember to change dates etc to mimic your CPR dates etc

 

ADAPT the CCA request line to read

 

A CCA REquest has now been sent also ,due to it not being sent following a clerical error

 

then...

 

email it to this email address.

 

MCOL is only one way of responding to a claim.

.

If you are having problems logging in, or would prefer not to use MCOL,

you can fax, email or post your response to the Court instead.

If you send your response by e mail

please send it to [email protected] and ensure you quote “Claim response” and quote the claim number in the subject field.

 

in the first line of the email

tell them that this defence is to over ride and replace the one filed on MCOL as that was filed by mistake

 

should be well ok

and we've done this before

 

HTH

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ok great

 

 

when you are settled

I posted a link in post 17

 

 

no harm in you reading as many of those threads in that link as possible

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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