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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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fraud/shoplifting asda DWF Scotland


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Hello,

 

I've read several cases on this forum and found most of them similar to mine, except the amount of money DWF wants from me.

 

So I'll start from beginning.

A month ago I found out how to trick self-checkout

I've used this "trick" 4 - 5 times tops, and only to buy necessary groceries to survive until next paycheck and totally regret my actions.

The amount of money barely would reach £70.

 

I suspect, that they have tracked me down, by noticing repetitive entries on their system

 

Since I am employed in a restaurant which is situated inside ASDA's premises, security informed police where to find me.

 

Police then came to my work with pictures from CCTV asking to confirm that this is me in that photo.

 

Police also told me that I am under suspicion for shoplifting and therefore I am banned from the store.

 

As a result of that, I've got suspended from work for an indefinite time, until this matter with ASDA is resolved.

 

Several days ago I spoke to my managers and asked if they heard anything back from ASDA or police about the progress on the case,

they said that ASDA has collected all the necessary evidence and passed to police which will probably prosecute me for fraudulence or fraud.

 

Also, I've been told to expect police visit at my house soon, but it's been a month, since 2nd November. And I have never been interviewed neither by ASDA or police about this matter.

 

On 25th November,

I have received a letter from DWF stating that they are solicitors acting on behalf of ASDA and asking to pay an enormous amount of money for stolen goods and standard amount for security costs(£125).

 

Of course, 7 days to pay the outstanding balance to avoid further actions.

Second sheet has FAQ and the last sheet says that THEY are waiting for payment or response.

 

I have not replied yet and I am not planning to.

 

I am shocked!

It's physically impossible to steal goods for such amount of money.

I think they have a roulette with amounts of money to beg for.

 

I suspect, it might be influenced by a poor relationship between ASDA and the restaurant I'm working for and they are trying to rip their rival's employee.

 

My main concern is the amount of money, which is £10 000.

On what grounds?

And should I wait for a response from police or court before even thinking of replying to DWF?

 

So, I assume this might be an interesting case for you, guys.

 

Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Edited by harold123
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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

We do see queries about DWF from time to time, but I don't remember a case where they asked for this amount of money - £10k? What is their basis for claiming this anount?

 

Are you able to scan up their letter as a pdf file please? [Take care to cover up your personal information.]

 

I'm surprised the police haven't said anything, but they're the people who should deal with shoplifting, not a legal firm. We need to know more about the letter, if you can.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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10 K wonder if that is a typo or they are trawling for punitive damages, don't think that sum would wash if they tried court.

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Firstly, well done for admitting your crime here. If/when the police get involved, you should do the same. This may mean a criminal record but unfortunately, you did the deed. Having said that, we on CAG do not deal with the offence but rather the effects of RLP and in your case DWF.

 

To get this clear in my head. DWF are chasing the £125 for security costs and £10k for stolen goods? They are having a laugh. Unless CCTV shows you stealing 10 grands worth of stuff, there is no way they can claim this amount.

The civil rules in England state that the party that has suffered a loss can ONLY reclaim that amount plus true admin fees. Nothing more. If they did so, this is called 'betterment' and is not allowed.

It makes me wonder if DWF are trying a new tactic of scaring people. They know that by claiming over £10k, this case (if it ever got to court) would be outside the small claims track and as such, costs are not capped.

 

As it is, I don't think this will go anywhere near a court as it is likely a judge would rip them a new one.

 

As this case is unique in the amount claimed, I would like to see the letter but not posted on open forum.

 

If you are willing to share the letter, make sure it is uploaded to me (via Private Message) in pdf format.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

We do see queries about DWF from time to time, but I don't remember a case where they asked for this amount of money - £10k? What is their basis for claiming this anount?

 

Are you able to scan up their letter as a pdf file please? [Take care to cover up your personal information.]

 

I'm surprised the police haven't said anything, but they're the people who should deal with shoplifting, not a legal firm. We need to know more about the letter, if you can.

 

My best, HB

 

There are 2 main areas here, civil and criminal law.

 

Civil law : in England & Wales the firm RLP have been resoundingly seen off in the county court, but I note the OP is in Scotland, so those with expertise of the Civil Recovery process in Scotland might be needed to advise.

 

Criminal Law : whatever the OP's reasons, this was a set of repeated actions, and they likely have CCTV footage of the self-scan till area, which they can match up to the records of a till at that time.

If the OP paid cash it'd be harder for them to trace the previous episodes, but possible (although time consuming!), but if they paid by card : much easier.

 

Whilst a prosecution for shoplifting is possible,I'm afraid that (with the repeated events, of falsely entering "bananas" in to the till instead of the more expensive product) a prosecution for fraud by false representation is the more likely charge.

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10 K wonder if that is a typo or they are trawling for punitive damages, don't think that sum would wash if they tried court.

 

Possibly an erroneous decimal point??

 

£100.00

£10.000

???

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The civil rules in England state that the party that has suffered a loss can ONLY reclaim that amount plus true admin fees. Nothing more. If they did so, this is called 'betterment' and is not allowed.

It makes me wonder if DWF are trying a new tactic of scaring people. They know that by claiming over £10k, this case (if it ever got to court) would be outside the small claims track and as such, costs are not capped.

 

The thread title says this is for Scotland, which

a) has a different civil court system to England, and

b) means the 'Oxford' case (where RLP were "seen off" in a County Court case) can't be used as "a stick to beat DWF with".

 

Caution should be used applying English cases / law to a Scottish scenario. As an example, Scotland doesn't have "Small Claims below £10k, fast (or multi) track above 10k", that is the situation in England & Wales.

In Scotland cases below £5k are "summary cause", and above 5k "ordinary cause"

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Thanks for that Bazza. You seem to know a lot more about Scots law then I so it would be nice if you stay subbed to slap us down when we get it wrong.

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Thanks for that Bazza. You seem to know a lot more about Scots law then I so it would be nice if you stay subbed to slap us down when we get it wrong.

 

I don't know enough about Scottish law (else I'd have answered in more detail!), but do know that I can't just apply the E&W system / law / precedent .....

I'm hoping that some of the regulars lucky enough to be north of the border and who have knowledge of the system will be able to step in (Scott / MaroonDev, perhaps??)

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I just had a look on CAB Scotland and the laws there are broadly similar to E & W in that they can only claim actual losses and true expenses of investigating the act and there are no fixed costs to be added such as the £125 DWF have added.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Personally I'd be ignoring DWF

Its sent to scare

 

As for the police

They would have already done something by now

 

Very rarely do they get involved in low level till fraud

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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[...]

If the OP paid cash it'd be harder for them to trace the previous episodes, but possible (although time consuming!), but if they paid by card : much easier.

[...]

By card every time.

 

Personally I'd be ignoring DWF

Its sent to scare

 

As for the police

They would have already done something by now

 

Very rarely do they get involved in low level till fraud

 

So, it is safe to ignore it until I get a response from authorities?

 

I'll keep you updated.

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I have just seen the letter. It is for ten grand and they are extracting the urine. I know the OP wouldn't like any court issues but I would relish it.

 

The estimate given by the OP was around £70 so let us round it up to a nice £100. That is all that could be claimed plus actual admin costs plus court fee plus fixed costs for the solicitor so the most I would think they could claim is around £250. Civil redress is similr in Scotland to England so there is no way they could claim that fictitious amount.

 

Idiots!

Ignore unless a letter before claim or court papers arrive.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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:-D

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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no dwf as with RLP get involved to fleece you anyway.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Could this scenario be possible?

ASDA dropped charges due to lack of evidence and ordered dwf to recover the "loss", instead.

 

As Asda has passed the evidence on to the police to deal with, their only involvement will be if the The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) decide to prosecute or offer a different resolution.

 

As DWF are chasing, Asda's involvement ceased as soon as the case was passed over. They don't usually get involved unless civil action occurs and as I said, I don't see this case in a civil court any time soon.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Scottish criminal law will be identical to english law, it is only the civil law aspects of this case that will differ and even then case law precedents will still apply so unless theyhave a purely scottish legal point to make the Oxford case willset a precedent.

So, what to do? I would still ignore DWF as they havent shown you any authority to clai from you nor a breakdown of what the claim is for. We can guess about things but they are obliged to tell you and they know this.

Your work position is different as ASDA may well tell your employer that they dont have any confidence in your presence in their store so you either get moved to another outlet or they may be forced to let you go even if it never gets to court

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