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Hello,

 

I've read several cases on this forum and found most of them similar to mine, except the amount of money DWF wants from me.

 

So I'll start from beginning.

A month ago I found out how to trick self-checkout

I've used this "trick" 4 - 5 times tops, and only to buy necessary groceries to survive until next paycheck and totally regret my actions.

The amount of money barely would reach £70.

 

I suspect, that they have tracked me down, by noticing repetitive entries on their system

 

Since I am employed in a restaurant which is situated inside ASDA's premises, security informed police where to find me.

 

Police then came to my work with pictures from CCTV asking to confirm that this is me in that photo.

 

Police also told me that I am under suspicion for shoplifting and therefore I am banned from the store.

 

As a result of that, I've got suspended from work for an indefinite time, until this matter with ASDA is resolved.

 

Several days ago I spoke to my managers and asked if they heard anything back from ASDA or police about the progress on the case,

they said that ASDA has collected all the necessary evidence and passed to police which will probably prosecute me for fraudulence or fraud.

 

Also, I've been told to expect police visit at my house soon, but it's been a month, since 2nd November. And I have never been interviewed neither by ASDA or police about this matter.

 

On 25th November,

I have received a letter from DWF stating that they are solicitors acting on behalf of ASDA and asking to pay an enormous amount of money for stolen goods and standard amount for security costs(£125).

 

Of course, 7 days to pay the outstanding balance to avoid further actions.

Second sheet has FAQ and the last sheet says that THEY are waiting for payment or response.

 

I have not replied yet and I am not planning to.

 

I am shocked!

It's physically impossible to steal goods for such amount of money.

I think they have a roulette with amounts of money to beg for.

 

I suspect, it might be influenced by a poor relationship between ASDA and the restaurant I'm working for and they are trying to rip their rival's employee.

 

My main concern is the amount of money, which is £10 000.

On what grounds?

And should I wait for a response from police or court before even thinking of replying to DWF?

 

So, I assume this might be an interesting case for you, guys.

 

Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Edited by harold123

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

We do see queries about DWF from time to time, but I don't remember a case where they asked for this amount of money - £10k? What is their basis for claiming this anount?

 

Are you able to scan up their letter as a pdf file please? [Take care to cover up your personal information.]

 

I'm surprised the police haven't said anything, but they're the people who should deal with shoplifting, not a legal firm. We need to know more about the letter, if you can.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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10 K wonder if that is a typo or they are trawling for punitive damages, don't think that sum would wash if they tried court.


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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Firstly, well done for admitting your crime here. If/when the police get involved, you should do the same. This may mean a criminal record but unfortunately, you did the deed. Having said that, we on CAG do not deal with the offence but rather the effects of RLP and in your case DWF.

 

To get this clear in my head. DWF are chasing the £125 for security costs and £10k for stolen goods? They are having a laugh. Unless CCTV shows you stealing 10 grands worth of stuff, there is no way they can claim this amount.

The civil rules in England state that the party that has suffered a loss can ONLY reclaim that amount plus true admin fees. Nothing more. If they did so, this is called 'betterment' and is not allowed.

It makes me wonder if DWF are trying a new tactic of scaring people. They know that by claiming over £10k, this case (if it ever got to court) would be outside the small claims track and as such, costs are not capped.

 

As it is, I don't think this will go anywhere near a court as it is likely a judge would rip them a new one.

 

As this case is unique in the amount claimed, I would like to see the letter but not posted on open forum.

 

If you are willing to share the letter, make sure it is uploaded to me (via Private Message) in pdf format.


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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

We do see queries about DWF from time to time, but I don't remember a case where they asked for this amount of money - £10k? What is their basis for claiming this anount?

 

Are you able to scan up their letter as a pdf file please? [Take care to cover up your personal information.]

 

I'm surprised the police haven't said anything, but they're the people who should deal with shoplifting, not a legal firm. We need to know more about the letter, if you can.

 

My best, HB

 

There are 2 main areas here, civil and criminal law.

 

Civil law : in England & Wales the firm RLP have been resoundingly seen off in the county court, but I note the OP is in Scotland, so those with expertise of the Civil Recovery process in Scotland might be needed to advise.

 

Criminal Law : whatever the OP's reasons, this was a set of repeated actions, and they likely have CCTV footage of the self-scan till area, which they can match up to the records of a till at that time.

If the OP paid cash it'd be harder for them to trace the previous episodes, but possible (although time consuming!), but if they paid by card : much easier.

 

Whilst a prosecution for shoplifting is possible,I'm afraid that (with the repeated events, of falsely entering "bananas" in to the till instead of the more expensive product) a prosecution for fraud by false representation is the more likely charge.

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10 K wonder if that is a typo or they are trawling for punitive damages, don't think that sum would wash if they tried court.

 

Possibly an erroneous decimal point??

 

£100.00

£10.000

???


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The civil rules in England state that the party that has suffered a loss can ONLY reclaim that amount plus true admin fees. Nothing more. If they did so, this is called 'betterment' and is not allowed.

It makes me wonder if DWF are trying a new tactic of scaring people. They know that by claiming over £10k, this case (if it ever got to court) would be outside the small claims track and as such, costs are not capped.

 

The thread title says this is for Scotland, which

a) has a different civil court system to England, and

b) means the 'Oxford' case (where RLP were "seen off" in a County Court case) can't be used as "a stick to beat DWF with".

 

Caution should be used applying English cases / law to a Scottish scenario. As an example, Scotland doesn't have "Small Claims below £10k, fast (or multi) track above 10k", that is the situation in England & Wales.

In Scotland cases below £5k are "summary cause", and above 5k "ordinary cause"

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Thanks for that Bazza. You seem to know a lot more about Scots law then I so it would be nice if you stay subbed to slap us down when we get it wrong.


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Thanks for that Bazza. You seem to know a lot more about Scots law then I so it would be nice if you stay subbed to slap us down when we get it wrong.

 

I don't know enough about Scottish law (else I'd have answered in more detail!), but do know that I can't just apply the E&W system / law / precedent .....

I'm hoping that some of the regulars lucky enough to be north of the border and who have knowledge of the system will be able to step in (Scott / MaroonDev, perhaps??)

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I just had a look on CAB Scotland and the laws there are broadly similar to E & W in that they can only claim actual losses and true expenses of investigating the act and there are no fixed costs to be added such as the £125 DWF have added.


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Personally I'd be ignoring DWF

Its sent to scare

 

As for the police

They would have already done something by now

 

Very rarely do they get involved in low level till fraud


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Forum scrambled my original reply. Writing another one...

You can delete this one.

Edited by harold123

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[...]

If the OP paid cash it'd be harder for them to trace the previous episodes, but possible (although time consuming!), but if they paid by card : much easier.

[...]

By card every time.

 

Personally I'd be ignoring DWF

Its sent to scare

 

As for the police

They would have already done something by now

 

Very rarely do they get involved in low level till fraud

 

So, it is safe to ignore it until I get a response from authorities?

 

I'll keep you updated.

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I have just seen the letter. It is for ten grand and they are extracting the urine. I know the OP wouldn't like any court issues but I would relish it.

 

The estimate given by the OP was around £70 so let us round it up to a nice £100. That is all that could be claimed plus actual admin costs plus court fee plus fixed costs for the solicitor so the most I would think they could claim is around £250. Civil redress is similr in Scotland to England so there is no way they could claim that fictitious amount.

 

Idiots!

Ignore unless a letter before claim or court papers arrive.


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:-D

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Could this scenario be possible?

ASDA dropped charges due to lack of evidence and ordered dwf to recover the "loss", instead.

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no dwf as with RLP get involved to fleece you anyway.

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Could this scenario be possible?

ASDA dropped charges due to lack of evidence and ordered dwf to recover the "loss", instead.

 

As Asda has passed the evidence on to the police to deal with, their only involvement will be if the The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) decide to prosecute or offer a different resolution.

 

As DWF are chasing, Asda's involvement ceased as soon as the case was passed over. They don't usually get involved unless civil action occurs and as I said, I don't see this case in a civil court any time soon.


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Scottish criminal law will be identical to english law, it is only the civil law aspects of this case that will differ and even then case law precedents will still apply so unless theyhave a purely scottish legal point to make the Oxford case willset a precedent.

So, what to do? I would still ignore DWF as they havent shown you any authority to clai from you nor a breakdown of what the claim is for. We can guess about things but they are obliged to tell you and they know this.

Your work position is different as ASDA may well tell your employer that they dont have any confidence in your presence in their store so you either get moved to another outlet or they may be forced to let you go even if it never gets to court

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