CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[ODC]

Yes and if they didnt cough up we could employ some of Lowells Licencesd Field Agents to collect the money,

[sillygirl1]

I would love that to happen, espeically as I am in one of the areas which has 'lost' its data - would make my day!

 

I got my Experian report yesterday and have decided that if DCA's come sniffing round they will get sent away as there aren't any old debts showing now, and three more due to fall off (paid loan accounts no longer used) in the New Year.

 

If it isn't on the report they ain't getting a penny from me - same with the loan companies, I have this address on the TPS service so they would definately be breaking some rules there.

[car2403]

Last time I looked, sharing data with a third party without express written consent to do so was a criminal offence under s.35 of the DPA 1998 - whether or not it was an accident.

 

Why isn't the Government being prosecuted for these massive failures in process by the ICO? Perhaps because he is in their pocket, as he is directly funded by Central Government, isn't he?

[cashins]

You (collective) have obviously delved deeper into the shadowy connections between CRA's, DCA's and Credit Providers.

 

The simplest form of abuse of CIFAS information I have seen, (I have worked for 3 Finance companies including a NatWest one), is unless a credit application is for a LOT of money, if it comes back with a CIFAS flag, they bin it and go onto the next one. (What they are supposed to do is investigate and report back to CIFAS). If so, it means that a system that is supposed to protect both the Credit Industry and YOU, can stop you getting credit!

 

Both the OFT and Data Protection have questioned the validity of some CIFAS information in the past, (is it real or just suspicion).

 

Now you have really got me worried!!!

[sosumi]

... All coming out in the wash, isn't it? CRAs 'brokering loans', subhuman DCAs with access to private information they don't have any right to, data CDs going missing here there and everywhere...

[Allwood]

Thousands of people working in security that are not cleared to do....

 

BBC NEWS | Politics | Thousands wrongly cleared to work

[seabro]

My experian SAR turned up this morning (equifax refused to send one so are currently subject to an ICO complaint).

 

Two things I noticed that were of interest. Firstly, when I updated my address with them they did a land registry search to check ownership status of the addresses. (thankfully, I own none).

 

Secondly, when I sold my house and moved, I updated all creditors and agencies with my new PO Box address. Now although I know it wouldnt take a rocket scientist to locate my new address, to date (12 months) I have not had any annoying communications to new address. However, I was a little surprised it appears once in my experian report along with my car registration number on an insurance search.

 

So if you want to remain incognito, be careful whos name and address are on the insurance policies.

 

 

 

Thanks to the DPA for wording us up

[Allwood]

It does not surprise me that Equifax refuses to send you an S.A.R they make up their own updates it was done on the phone when I was query their duplications and entries they actually did it when I was on the phone to them - so how can you tell that they take their information from lenders as it is supposed to be done on a monthly basis. Equifax is a joke:lol:

[sillygirl1]

I recently got my Equifax report and there is one false entry on it - I am using this as evidence against the company involved being incapable of keeping correct records... it's sealed their tomb as far as I am concerned. Waiting till their next request for payment before hitting them where it hurts.

[renegotiation]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before. My mum sent off for her credit files by post. My dad had an outstanding debt that no D.C.A. had been chasing for a while. It had absolutely nothing to do with my mum. Now my dad hadn't heard anything about this debt for like 18 months. By what would have return pretty much first class post from when my mum sent off her request my dad had a new D.C.A. writing and demanding payment! WTF. So beware, sending off a request will bring D.C.A.'s hunting your husband/wife if they have debts that are currently 'unchased'. It doesn't just apply to the person sending off the credit file request. Unless it was a freak coincidence? I doubt it though.

[babybear39]

They check everyone at the specific address or addresses;)

[Perseus]

What you've also got to be aware of, is that most CRAs are affilliated, or own , or have major shares in - Debt Collection Agencies!

By providing security info, addresses etc - all unrecoverable debts are computer and entry linked.

Update your credit file - you renew any forgotten or lost debts - who inturn will pay the cra to maintain and record data... nice self regulating entities self generating income from your credit file search!

[jody123]

My mate has just S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d the solicitors that are taking him to court on behalf of a bank....really looking forward to seeing what they send back - if anything!

 

Jody

[car2403]

I've just watched Owen Roberts from CallCredit PLC giving financial advice out on BBC's Breakfast program this morning. His advice to avoid high interest loan/mortgage and credit card rates is to get hold of your credit reference file from the 3 major CRA's (including his, BTW!) and checking that the data is right.

 

If it isn't, he says you can query the content of it with the CRA and have it corrected - interesting he's pushing this option, as that is exactly what I have done with 5 claims against unenforceable debts with data being shared without my consent being given, (a criminal offence under s.35 Data Protection Act 1998 ) and all of the CRA's have totally ignored my requests.

 

Also interesting that he thinks by getting your CRA file you can IMPROVE your Credit rating, which clearly isn't the case given what has been said on this thread already!

 

They obviously think we are Lemmings, that will just follow what they say because they are on the BBC, so it must be a reputable story of public interest - someone really should put the BBC right on this, IMHO! I'm paying a license fee to hear this tripe being trotted out on a regular basis, which I'm not happy with - maybe a complaint to the BBC DG Mark Thompson (who I have contact with through work, incidentally) is in order?

[andrew1]

I've just watched Owen Roberts from CallCredit PLC giving financial advice out on BBC's Breakfast program this morning. His advice to avoid high interest loan/mortgage and credit card rates is to get hold of your credit reference file from the 3 major CRA's (including his, BTW!) and checking that the data is right.

 

If it isn't, he says you can query the content of it with the CRA and have it corrected - interesting he's pushing this option, as that is exactly what I have done with 5 claims against unenforceable debts with data being shared without my consent being given, (a criminal offence under s.35 Data Protection Act 1998 ) and all of the CRA's have totally ignored my requests.

 

Also interesting that he thinks by getting your CRA file you can IMPROVE your Credit rating, which clearly isn't the case given what has been said on this thread already!

 

They obviously think we are Lemmings, that will just follow what they say because they are on the BBC, so it must be a reputable story of public interest - someone really should put the BBC right on this, IMHO! I'm paying a license fee to hear this tripe being trotted out on a regular basis, which I'm not happy with - maybe a complaint to the BBC DG Mark Thompson (who I have contact with through work, incidentally) is in order?

 

I have heard all the Credit Reference Agencies towing a similar line in public. "We will improve your credit rating if it's wrong, correct incorrect information and everyone should check their credit files" The Cabot Fan Club is noted for digging and delving into companies histories, Directors and practices, but these CRA's are getting a little worrying because there seems to be some kind of trigger pulled every time someone applies for their files and the marketing boys send out acres of mailshots from Loan companies a little like the Registry Trust do with CCJ information. I urge anyone with insight into how the mechanics of these CRA's work ( an insider wishing to whistleblow on here maybe? ) post how these mailshots are prompted on here.

 

We will have a nose around and come back, but this is getting extremely unhealthy for all concerned except the DCA's.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Here's the CreditExpert (Experian) privacy policy (my bold):

 

What types of information do we collect about you and how do we use or share this information?

The primary reason we collect personal and credit information about you is to provide products and services that you have requested and to enroll you into our membership services. The type of information we collect, and the primary purpose for which it is collected includes:

 

Required product registration information such as name, address(es), and date of birth, are utilised to establish your membership or one-time transaction record and to verify your identify. We require this verification in order to provide you with your personal credit information. For security reasons and to protect the confidentiality of your information, we will verify your identity by checking details you supply against details about you held on other databases to which we have access for these purposes. A record of this check will be kept and, with your consent, may be used by other organisations for verification and fraud prevention purposes.

Credit information we receive from credit reporting agencies is used to provide you with the products and services we offer.

Billing information, such as credit card (or other payment card) number, is required to process the payment for the products and services you order from us.

Other information we collect, such as place of birth and mother's maiden name, is used to verify your identity in the event you forget your CreditExpert monitoring service identification or password. Any e-mail address or mobile phone number provided by you will be recorded by us and used to send you notifications and our latest e-newsletter via electronic mail or mobile phone.

Any additional credit information you provide to us including (but not limited to) aliases, previous names and addresses and financial relationships with third parties will be added to and recorded on your credit report and may be used by us to provide credit reports about you to authorised third parties.

If we are unable to verify your identity from the information you provide to us on this web site we will advise you by e-mail to the e-mail address you specify. You may then wish to make a written application including further proof of identification.

 

In addition to the primary purposes listed above, we may also use the information we collect about you as set out in the section entitled DO WE SHARE INFORMATION WITH THIRD PARTIES below or for other authorised secondary purposes such as:

 

Creating a profile about you so that we can better inform you and others about particular goods, services or events that may be of interest to you/them and to display that information according to your/their preferences

Dealing with your requests and enquiries

Maintaining our records and for other administrative purposes

Carrying out customer and market/marketing research

Tracking activity on our website

Protecting our websites and systems against unauthorised access

Improving the quality of our service

Do we share information with third parties?

We may disclose any of the information that we collect to other companies within the Group and to those third parties referred to above in the section. Except as provided below, we do not share information with any other third party.

 

When identifying methods of improving our products and services or if we think a product may be of interest to you, we may arrange to extend offers of goods or services to you

We may disclose all of the information we collect, as described above, to companies that perform services on our behalf, such as credit card processors, data management firms or call centre providers and data may be hosted outside the European Economic Area by such companies

We may use third-party advertising companies to serve advertisements about our products and services on our behalf

 

...and from CallCredit's application form for a copy credit file:

 

We and other organisations may also access and use this infor-

mation to prevent fraud and money laundering, for example,

when: checking details on applications for credit and credit-

related or other facilities; managing credit and credit-related

accounts or facilities; recovering debt; checking details on pro-

posals and claims for all types of insurance; checking details of

job applicants and employees.

 

Equifax don't mention data protection as it relates to individuals applying for credit files.

[renegotiation]

I've just watched Owen Roberts from CallCredit PLC giving financial advice out on BBC's Breakfast program this morning. His advice to avoid high interest loan/mortgage and credit card rates is to get hold of your credit reference file from the 3 major CRA's (including his, BTW!) and checking that the data is right.

 

If it isn't, he says you can query the content of it with the CRA and have it corrected - interesting he's pushing this option, as that is exactly what I have done with 5 claims against unenforceable debts with data being shared without my consent being given, (a criminal offence under s.35 Data Protection Act 1998 ) and all of the CRA's have totally ignored my requests.

 

Also interesting that he thinks by getting your CRA file you can IMPROVE your Credit rating, which clearly isn't the case given what has been said on this thread already!

 

They obviously think we are Lemmings, that will just follow what they say because they are on the BBC, so it must be a reputable story of public interest - someone really should put the BBC right on this, IMHO! I'm paying a license fee to hear this tripe being trotted out on a regular basis, which I'm not happy with - maybe a complaint to the BBC DG Mark Thompson (who I have contact with through work, incidentally) is in order?

 

Too right!

[sosumi]

Experian Autotrace

 

Experian Autotrace Product Menu

WELCOME TO AUTOTRACE

 

Autotrace is Experian’s debtor tracing solution that enables organisations to locate individuals with whom they have lost contact. Autotrace can trace a person from their last known address to a later address, and it can also confirm that a person is active at their current address (possibly where they have claimed to be no longer resident). Where less information is known about an individual, he can be traced to an address based on a name and date of birth only.

Unsuccessful trace requests are placed on Constant Review, whereby Autotrace will automatically notify you if new data is matched to the individual on review. Autotrace can also assist with your efforts to contact a traced individual by finding and returning their residential telephone number.

Their Terms and Conditions are here:

Consumer Report

 

Last bullet point, section 5:

5. Use of Information

 

You undertake that you shall:

• use the information solely for the purposes of debt recovery in order to locate the home address only of debtors and (except as is required by law) will not divulge or disclose all or any part of the information to any third party;
  
• take reasonable steps to confirm the identity of a debtor before taking any action to recover the relevant debt where the information/services provide a home address for that debtor;
  
• not identify us to any debtor or other third party as the source of any data relating to a debtor.

[car2403]

Here's the CreditExpert (Experian) privacy policy (my bold):

 

 

 

...and from CallCredit's application form for a copy credit file:

 

 

 

Equifax don't mention data protection as it relates to individuals applying for credit files.

 

So, we know they get the information via contractual consent to process data under contracts we have with their data suppliers. (Banks, etc)

 

Now we know that they use every piece of information we provide in order for them to "verify our identity" when applying for a copy of our credit files.

 

I wonder what would happen if we requested a copy of the file, but struck out the parts of their privacy policy we don't agree with? Could they withhold information because you haven't consented? Surely they would be in breach of s.158 CCA 1974?;

 

158.—(1) A credit reference agency, within the prescribed period after receiving,—

(a)a request in writing to that effect from any individual (the” consumer “), and

(b)such particulars as the agency may reasonably require to enable them to identify the file, and

©a fee of 25 new pence,

shall give the consumer a copy of the file relating to him kept by the agency

 

Can they "reasonably require" you to consent to their mundane use of your data under s.158(1)(b) BEFORE sending you the file? Be interesting to see, wouldn't it? Potentially, they may be committing an offence by not giving you the file as above - s.158(4);

 

(4) If the agency contravenes any provision of this section it commits an offence

 

Also, surely the DPA SAR would override s.158 anyway? When you SAR a CRA, they have to provide all data under the DPA to you as the data subject - could be a away of getting the info without having the files updated with new information. (Would cost £10 instead of £2, though)

[andrew1]

Experian Autotrace

 

Experian Autotrace Product Menu

Their Terms and Conditions are here:

Consumer Report

 

Last bullet point, section 5:

 

Section 5 eh? - that is worrying...

[Allwood]

This is a credit agreement by Masterloan Barclaybank am I right in thinking that my information should not have been given out to a third party without my consent. It is an 1997 agreement.

 

PERSONAL DATA

 

I agree you may hold and process, by computer or otherwise any information about me as a consequence of the application and/or agreement “Personal Data”. I agree that you may

 

(i) Include Personal data in Barclays Group customers systems which maybe accessed by other companies in the Barclay Group for banking and credit assessment, statistical analysis including behavior and credit scoring and to identify products and services (including those supplied by third parties) which may be relevant to me, and

 

(ii) With my consent, permit other companies within the Barclays Group to use Personal Data and any other information you hold about me on Barclay Group systems to bring to my attention products and services which may be of interest to me.

 

You may disclose personal data outside the Barclay Group only:

(a) for fraud prevention purposes;

 

(b) to include reference agencies, if I am in breach of an agreement; or to the extent that I have give my consent,

© under a strict code of secrecy to sub-contractors or person acting as your agents;

(d) to any person who may assume your rights under this Agreement; and

(e) if you have a right or duty to disclose or are permitted to compelled to do so by law.

The above paragraphs (i) and (ii) do not apply to any information specific to business accounts of branches of the Channel Islands or of the Isle of Man unless such customers have informed their branch that they wish to be included in the Barclays Group customers systems.

 

Personal Data will be deleted from the Barclays Group customers systems as soon as reasonably possibly after you cease to be a Barclays Group customer.

 

I confirm that the information give in true and complete and authorise you to make any credit reference and other enquires in accordance with the normal procedures in connection with the application

 

I understand that I can request not to receive details of products or services, other that with my statement, by writing to Barclays.

 

The tick/cross in this box means that I agree that Personal Data and any other information you hold about me on the Barclay Group customer systems may be used within the Barclays Group to bring to my attention products and services my bay be of interest to me. o

 

 

Signed….................. . Date……

[sosumi]

From here:

CSA Website

CSA seeks clarification on ‘Reasonable’ action to validate data received from Credit Reference Agenc

 

Date: 04-01-2008

The Association met with the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) recently to discuss how the industry should address the issue of validating data from credit reference agencies in relation to tracing ‘gone-aways’.

 

Representatives from the Association clarified the processes involved in tracing gone-aways to the ICO and how data is used both in the office and out in the field. Specifically, the Association detailed how its members currently validate data supplied by credit reference bureaux during their tracing activity. This includes comparing the information with other databases such as the voters’ roll and CCJ records, checking with neighbours at the debtor’s last known address, and confirming departure and new occupancy dates as well as contact telephone numbers and dates of birth.

 

The ICO confirmed that it does not question this process. It referred to the contractual terms of the tracing product in question, that required that further checks on identity were made because no assumption should be made that the matches produced were in fact the subject of the enquiry. So it would be wrong for a company to ‘assume’ any match supplied by a credit reference bureaux is correct and further reasonable checks should be carried out to validate its accuracy. The use of a ‘soft’ letter as part of the validation process was specifically raised. Again the ICO confirmed that a suitably worded soft letter could be sent providing reasonable checks had been carried out prior to the letter being despatched.

 

However, one of the key issues is what constitutes a ‘reasonable check’. The Data Protection Act requires members to process information fairly and lawfully but is not specific as to what such checks might be. The ICO will consider complaints on a case-by-case basis. The ICO was at pains, however, to assure the CSA that it did not favour those individuals who were clearly deliberately avoiding their financial responsibilities (as was sometimes assumed); that where a complaint had been made the ICO has a duty to assess members’ compliance with the Act and will decide on the ‘balance of probability’ whether fairness was exercised.

 

One example of what constituted a reasonable check was discussed. If there were 10 potential matches provided by the credit reference agency and eight of these showed a different date of birth, different first initial, different middle initial, then would it be reasonable to send a ‘soft letter’ to the remaining two to seek clarification of their identity? In general terms this would, although any other relevant information available would need to be taken into account.

 

The CSA also used the meeting to expand on the challenges faced by the debt collection industry by various websites giving bad advice to consumers on how to avoid paying their debts, and supplied copies of the recently launched CSA Debt Manifesto. The Association stressed how the lack of proper access to information about the borrower was a principal barrier to the efficient and accurate recovery of debt, and how this affected the incidence of ‘mis-traces’. The ICO were keen to discuss this further and were interested to learn more about the processes used in other European Countries. The next regular meeting is to be organised.

 

[Newborn]

QUOTE - 'The Information Commissioners Office was at pains, however, to assure the CSA that it did not favour those individuals who were clearly deliberately avoiding their financial responsibilities (as was sometimes assumed); that where a complaint had been made the Information Commissioners Office has a duty to assess members’ compliance with the Act and will decide on the ‘balance of probability’ whether fairness was exercised.'

 

This bit worries me, no it actually makes me angry.

If you complain to the IC, who amongst their staff then decides and on what basis that the debtor is 'deliberately avoiding debt' and then decides on how to approach the case in question? Probably with a fob off letter in mind from the start completely disregarding the DCA wrongdoing.

IMHO that is NOT a decision for the ICO to even consider let alone make!

Their job is to ensure that Data Prtection principles are adhered to.

 

Newborn

[jody123]

I agree newborn - it's not their place to judge - it's there place to ensure the Data Protection Principles are adhered to....and in any case one's right to one's personal data is just that....

 

Jody

[ScarletPimpernel]

The CSA also used the meeting to expand on the challenges faced by the debt collection industry by various websites giving bad advice to consumers on how to avoid paying their debts...

 

The CSA's regular references to the 'rogue website' issue shows just how worried the debt industry really is. If a DCA has a legal right to collect a debt, and can prove this with the relevant paperwork, then they have various legal remedies available. Short of being advised by a website to buy a canoe and disappear, I do not see how a debt can genuinely be avoided in these circumstances.

 

Of course, what the CSA really don't like is their members being forced to acknowledge that most debtors are 'can't pays' rather than 'won't pays', they don't like those upon whom they prey being aware of their legal rights, and they don't like the questionable methods they use being brought into the open. They also don't want their members to be made to comply with laws and regulations, not least because it proper compliance would lead to increased costs, decreased collections and lower profits.

 

 

...and supplied copies of the recently launched CSA Debt Manifesto.

 

Why, has the Information Commissioner run out of lavatory paper?