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    • Well done. Are you able to tell us more about how it went on the day please? HB
    • when mediation call they will ask the same 3 questions that are in their email you had to accept it going forward. simply state 'i do not have enough information from the claimant to make an informed decision upon mediation so i refuse. end of problem.  
    • Food prices, including a $40 chicken, has stoked fury and calls for big foreign supermarket chains to come to Canada.View the full article
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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£50 fine for dropping cigarette end!


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I agree, parking, speeding, litter fines et al, are all simply revenue raisers with little or no chance in mitigating the circumstances. All such fines are easy meat for the authorities as most people simply pay.

The only course of action the public have is not to pay such fines. If everyone stuck together then something would have to be done. However like me, most people are "too honest" and simply pay up - thta's why we are targeted.

As you say, real criminals who end up with a fine simply do not pay. Do the end up in jail, certainly not but I bet you or me would. They'd let out early the "granny basher" to make space for someone commiting the heinous crime of dropping a fag end or doing 80 on an mway and not paying the fine.

 

Rant over !

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Interesting responses ...

 

Can I just make it clear that I actually am very careful not to drop litter.

 

I fully agree there's no excuse for throwing away food wrappers, fish and chip boxes, cans of pop and what have you and I never would however fag butts are a bit of a grey area in my opinion due to the fact that you could actually cause a fire if you put them in a bin, I honestly never actually considered putting out my fag end on the ground as littering.

 

I can tell you that being repromanded by "litter police", picking it up and putting it in a bin in front of a whole street full of people would have been embarassing enough that I'd not be doing it again in a hurry but there really was no need for the £50 fine.

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Just one question. These Litter Enforcement Gestapo Officers, what powers do they actually have?

 

It is covered by the EPA - see this from the Glasgow Council's website;

 

Litter is a blight on the streets and open spaces in Glasgow and action is being taken by the Clean Glasgow Team to encourage all who live, work and play in the City to improve things.

Clean Glasgow Campaign.

Litter Wardens have recently been engaged to patrol Glasgow and their role is to issue fixed penalty notices (£50) in terms of the Environmental Protection Act to people who litter. This includes cigarette ends and chewing gum.

Our policy is to issue fixed penalty notices to all who are seen to litter the streets and open spaces of Glasgow and our wardens are under instruction to issue a fixed penalty notice even if the offender offers to pick up the litter. In the event of non payment the case will be referred to the procurator fiscal who will probably impose a higher fine or may take the matter to court where a fine of up to £2500 can be imposed.

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  • 1 year later...

Why has no one answered kregrs's question, i would also like to know what powers these council employees have?

And the lord said "come forth and i shall grant you eternal life" I came fifth and got a toaster!!!:D

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By that i mean are you obliged to give your details to someone in an iffy uniform, do they have the right to detain you etc??

And the lord said "come forth and i shall grant you eternal life" I came fifth and got a toaster!!!:D

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Already answered in #53 - check the link. The provisions are part of hte EPA.

 

No is wasn't already answered.

 

The EPA allows for the enforcement of litter offences by way of an FPN, but there is absolutely nothing about the power to require a name and address or to detain (even whilst an FPN is written out/issued)

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thanks for clarification pat

 

so if one of the council gestapo stop you, you can just walk off by not acknowleging them

 

can they then do a citizens arrest untill a copper appears on the plot.

then you would have to give your details.

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There is no power of arrest for litter, only under Section 25 PACE, and that only applies to the cops. If the 'Warden@ arrests you for litter I would say that you are in compo heaven;)

regards

Please remember our troops, fighting and dying in our name. God protect them.

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  • 2 years later...

If this is from one of the Council's wardens under the anti-littering laws, you can pay if you want to, or take it to court by notifying them you plan to appeal. If you do nothing, the fine increases and the Bailiffs are sent out at additional cost.

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I doubt the issue has anything to do with the cost of collection - asking the offender to pick it up and dispose of it properly doesn't work, as there is no deterrent, do we need to shadow each smoker to remind them? Fining makes them think again, and unless they're really thick, they either get the message or waste more of their disposable income.

 

I`m a millionaire so a £50 fine is nothing to me, parking fines, who cares i,ll park where i like. In fact fines don,t bother me at all.

 

Now if i was to be fined according to my income then i might get the message.

 

P.S.

I,m not really worth millions just thought i would open the debate a bit.

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The millionaire would probably give a fake address anyway. Our legal system sets a tariff, changing this to some scale of culpability based on the miscreants income, what about those with no income but sizeable assets?

 

A tariff based on actual prices gives them some worth that they've calculated a reasonable fine fit the crime.

:whoo:

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my sister was fined for throwing cigarette ash out of the window, although they could not provide her with any evidence, photos, just the word of a litter warden. Now I do and my sister agrees with the fines, but cigarette ash with no evidence surely not

LilythePink

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Evidence is not usually required - all it takes is a'reasonable suspicion' by one or more of the attendants. It is their written statements that do the damage by saying what they saw. If you can challenge this and get a judge to agree, you're OK. The same holds true (although different legislation) for dog fouling.

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Well if all that is needed is someone's word against yours then the execution of this bylaw should not to be tolerated. I hate litter and often chastise people in the street who throw it about. But I hate a big brother society even more. There are wardens round here, as we live next to a school, who have tried to fine young people, but found out very quickly it was a waste of time as they legally can't enforce the fine due to their age.My son's friend was given an on the spot fine for breach of the peace, who is a lovely young man, but was fined for hanging with his mates. He lives with his gran and was terrified of her finding out- so paid up out of the little money he had even though he has never been violent, taken drugs or drunk. Why does our society want to criminalise our people, particularly the young so easily?

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It isn't just 'anyone's' word - it is a publicly funded official who is there to ensure the local bylaws are enforced, usually because the Police had decided not to be involved in enforcement of this type. You are equally entitled to dispute their version of events and let a judge decide. Surely that is fair?

 

I have seen them operate in city centres, and frankly, they DO make a difference (a small one, granted) but would you rather the Police enforced it instead? It would still be their word against yours, so I don't see why you feel this is any different to what has been a legitimate enforcement process since the 1950's (probably earlier).

 

Regarding 'hanging with his mates', this would require a non-congregation area and be signposted as such. These usually result in an initial warning, and if dispersal doesn't take place, the ticket is the next sanction.

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The police have to provide evidence of speeding, by providing CCTV footage, but the litter brigade do not have to provide anything, and I am just afraid that some litter warden has some kind of target to meet, and they just look back to old cases and think if they've done it once, they could be believed to do it again.

LilythePink

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You're being subjective. A Council CCTV operator can provide the same evidence of the litter being dropped. Similarly, without such corroboration, both the Council warden and Policeman would need to swear on oath that he witnessed the relevant action complained of. Nothing has changed.

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Guest Jason King

I don't like litter but being fined for fag butts, or even fag ash, is just absolutely crazy.

 

This smacks of Durkheim's 'Society of Saints,' where people become exemplary individuals where, over time, even the slightest of misdemenours will become a crime.

 

It is unworkable and ridiculous.

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