walton v rbos

[yourbank]

What a tangled web of deceit!

 

Has anybody come across Greenwich capital markets on any documentation?

 

Trying to identify RBS' vehicle for securitised routers. Believe they were Natwests foray into the US securities market in an attempt to follow the lead of Barclays during the early 90's with Gracechurch and the masterloan debacle.

 

If you can find them on the web their annual accounts will be an eye opener........

 

Liquid assets of 26million

 

Security purchases & accrued interest receivable 133billion

 

Greenwich would be the former NatWest Group so RBS Group would not be that vehicle in the 1990's since it was 1999/2000 that they tookover the NatWest Group.

[gezwee]

This'll make you laugh....... not that I condone this type of behaviour (much), worth a look before youtube pull it.

 

Thought it would be nice to bring some lightheartedness to the thread

 

Should warn you the language is not the cleanest, if easily offended please don't click on the link

 

Edited July 26, 2009 by gezwee

[rickyd]

patrickq1 - if the loan is "flexible" the usual format is that interest accrues daily in the background, but is added quarterly. Given that credits are made monthly the overall trend is downwards and if early repayment is sought, the existing capital, plus current accrued interest are added together to give a total sum outstanding.

 

None of this is hidden and the capital account and interest sub account can be seen on screen at any branch. The printed statements will show credits to the loan account and interest debited to the account over the statement period. I know this from experience of having several flexi loans through RBS. All of which were repaid early without penalty.

 

Much as I would this not to be the case, the prospect of router accounts ever being discussed in open court are non-existent. So long as the bank's auditors are happy with the numbers the only ones that matter are those on the P&L statements and you can bet there's no mention of routers in the annual report eiter.

 

For information - Greenwich Capital has been known as RBS Securities Inc since 1 April 2009. This link makes for interesting reading:-

www.http://ci.rbs.com/psp/public/pagebuilder.aspx?page=gp1332

especially the list of awards under the "banking" tab.

 

The comments re Nat west were correct as they originally bought Greenwich Capital Markets in 1996, but the company became part of the RBS Group along with Nat West in 2003.

 

Regular contributors may recall that as part of its US expansion plans, Greenwich was joined by Citizens Bank in 2006 in a move that saw Fred Goodwin demoted to the groups second highest paid Director due to the extraordinary package of remuneration of Larry Fish (Citizens CEO) As a result Fred's salary magically increased to place him back at the top of the tree and his megalomaniac tendencies grew from there until he left the group.

 

Even though Fred trumped him on salary, Larry Fish had the last laugh as he left the bank this January with a £1.4 million pension (twice the size of Fred's even before he handed some of it back).

[yourbank]

NatWest Group was acquired by RBS Group in August 2000 and that would have included the Greenwich Capital as well.

[Sparkie1723]

deleted

Edited July 26, 2009 by Sparkie1723

[Dipply75]

be interested too see what the interest rate and/or change on any router a/c opened for my persona loan is....as my loan was interest free lol.

 

I kicked the rbs backside on misselling my loan and the upshot was this loan (the agreed remaining balance) at 0%. So be interested to see if an actual interest rate has been applied to the router...let them explain that.

[Sparkie1723]

Deleted

Edited July 26, 2009 by Sparkie1723

[Sparkie1723]

be interested too see what the interest rate and/or change on any router a/c opened for my persona loan is....as my loan was interest free lol.

 

I kicked the rbs backside on misselling my loan and the upshot was this loan (the agreed remaining balance) at 0%. So be interested to see if an actual interest rate has been applied to the router...let them explain that.

 

deleted

Edited July 26, 2009 by Sparkie1723

[rickyd]

I can categorically state that cistomers accounts are not always closed when transferred to CMS (I have impeccable sources) but they are given a file reference number.

 

Access to the account is usually restricted however, mostly to prevent further deterioration of the excess position. You should also be aware that Telford isn't the place a CMS centre exists.

 

The bank's position is that once an account has reached CMS, active debt management takes place. If this fails, the account is marked RCR and the debt is passed to Recoveries who will either write it off, or if deemed a potentially recoverable sum, engage debt collectors or even sell the debt on.

 

Once a client has been to RCR they will no longer be able to hold any connection with RBS whether the debt is settled or not, nor will they be accepted for new business in any form. This doesn't automatically mean that other banks won't provide facilities however, it all depaends on the amounts involved.

 

I accept your comment sparkie1723 for individual cases, I was referring to the accusations of tax evasion/false accounting. This will never surface as the only ones left to repair any damage that may be found are - guess who?

 

The chief culprit has gone and many of his senior footsoldiers have follwed, all with handsome rewards, and they've already announced that Gordon Pell (last of the previous board) will get a whopper of a pension when he goes.

[yourbank]

I can categorically state that cistomers accounts are not always closed when transferred to CMS (I have impeccable sources) but they are given a file reference number.

 

Access to the account is usually restricted however, mostly to prevent further deterioration of the excess position. You should also be aware that Telford isn't the place a CMS centre exists.

 

The bank's position is that once an account has reached CMS, active debt management takes place. If this fails, the account is marked RCR and the debt is passed to Recoveries who will either write it off, or if deemed a potentially recoverable sum, engage debt collectors or even sell the debt on.

 

Once a client has been to RCR they will no longer be able to hold any connection with RBS whether the debt is settled or not, nor will they be accepted for new business in any form. This doesn't automatically mean that other banks won't provide facilities however, it all depaends on the amounts involved.

 

 

That would be the same for NatWest(well it would be, I guess). There are occasions which are rare where the account is transferred back out of CMS to branch control, exceptional circumstances and very rare. Usually it has gone through banks' internal collections team first and various payment plans if made have not been maintained.

[patrickq1]

You should also be aware that Telford isn't the place a CMS centre exists.

what does this mean ,is it that CMS now exists in other places such as regional branches

is there a reason why nat west have not once persued me in any shape or form for the recovery of 12,000 since 1991 ?

[JonCris]

I agree with PT the bank has been told repeatedly that these inflated router accounts are being litigated which they 1st said was a mistake & that could have been accepted. However as more time passes & more & more victims come forward their conduct can no longer be excused or indeed explained

[Sparkie1723]

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Edited July 26, 2009 by Sparkie1723

[yourbank]

The Witness statement you have sparkie is perhaps, either a misunderstanding or at worse incorrect in interpretation(I won't say they are lying but it does not appear to be truthful).

[patrickq1]

come on YB when has a bank ever been truthful with deceipt

they have never been transparent in ant dealings last year it was the goverment BUZZWORD today it has been forgotten about again

[Sparkie1723]

deleted

 

I think I have deleted most of my posts that may compromise Pauls thread...if any more has been left on by error.please take the appropriate action and remove.

 

sparkie:cool:

Edited July 26, 2009 by Sparkie1723
Please don't incriminate CAG by posting libellous remarks

[gezwee]

I can categorically state that cistomers accounts are not always closed when transferred to CMS (I have impeccable sources) but they are given a file reference number.

 

Access to the account is usually restricted however, mostly to prevent further deterioration of the excess position. You should also be aware that Telford isn't the place a CMS centre exists.

 

The bank's position is that once an account has reached CMS, active debt management takes place. If this fails, the account is marked RCR and the debt is passed to Recoveries who will either write it off, or if deemed a potentially recoverable sum, engage debt collectors or even sell the debt on.

 

This makes a lot of sense in the context of continued application of contractual interest to originator.

 

It would be a poor commercial decision to close an account which could in the future become recoverable at lifted return value.

[gezwee]

Another one??

 

Loopyloopy v Natwest

[rickyd]

forgive the typo patrickq1 - it should read that Telford isn't the only place a CMS centre exists. There's one in Edinburgh and possibly one in Glasow too.

 

If Nat west haven't pursued you its highly likely its been written off. I have personal knowledge of a £6000+ debt that was written off (not mine) where the person involved had never been chased for the funds. It only came to light when she applied on-line for an RBS mortgage. She received an agreement in principle, but once this went to underwriting the previous debt was discovered and she not only didn't get her mortgage, but she had to close her £10k savings account with RBS.

 

When she contacted RCR to ask about clearing the debt, she was told she could if she wished but she still wouldn't get her mortgage and as nobody was looking for the money, there was nothing to gain by repaying it.

 

She got a mortgage through HBOS very easily a couple of weeks later.

[Sparkie1723]

During my investigations it appears there is in fact ony one CMS and that is in Iron Masters Way Telford.......the other collection services that are mentioned are just that........ "collection services"......There is one in Edinburgh, one in Manchester and one in Southend (the Southend one is for credit card debt collection)..these are completely separate from CMS............CMS is the only Office that uses the " Router Accounting" system, and I believe is the reason I personally have been "advised" by a very senior official of the RBS not to make enquires elsewhere with Bank branches.

 

I also wish to mention that CMS Telford can and do carry out un detectable credit file searches and of credit file reports being copied into hard copy and then kept within CMS Telford without the knowledge and/or consent of the data subject and even the RBS/Nat West Data Controller Joyce E Tudor has no knowledge of these searches being carried out ....because they are secretly carried out seaches .....they leave no trace on the searche file held by the CRA ...I aslo have documentary evidence of such operations........ All done and kept "secret" in CMS Telford.

 

sparkie

Edited July 27, 2009 by Sparkie1723

[JonCris]

No one has yet given me an answer (assuming they can) to my query as to why there are so many cases where these 'router' accounts have been litigated when the bank attempts to claim otherwise

[pt2537]

No one has yet given me an answer (assuming they can) to my query as to why there are so many cases where these 'router' accounts have been litigated when the bank attempts to claim otherwise

probably cos that question cannot be answered without the bank incriminating itself:)

[Sparkie1723]

No one has yet given me an answer (assuming they can) to my query as to why there are so many cases where these 'router' accounts have been litigated when the bank attempts to claim otherwise

 

As you know JonCris, I have been attempting to get the answer to this question for sometime now ..This is the question I put to Mr Hemsley at my meeting with him, he has totally ignored and avoided giving me the answer, to date ...but I will get one somehow.

 

sparkie

 

"If this is the case, how can RBS Group litigate on the basis and production of these accounts or defend an action, as in my in case. When I ( and others ) did not know of its existence?"

[cashins]

As a matter of interest, have they ever said by what authority they set these account up in your name anyway?

[angry cat]

probably cos that question cannot be answered without the bank incriminating itself:)

 

Exactly!

 

AC