ILLEGAL CCJ on ACCOUNT - DESPERATE!**WON AT LAST**

[elsinore]

Hi Electric.

 

It is important that you turn up. Even though you haven’t been able to prepare properly, you will be demonstrating that you are taking it seriously.

 

If the judge is sympathetic to your plight (family sickness, finance, etc) you should ask for an adjournment, to allow you more time to prepare. If the judge concurs, he/she might well allow CL one last chance to submit missing documents, which will seem unfair, but if they haven’t done it so far, another week or two probably won’t make any difference.

 

There is always the possibility that CL won’t show up, in which case you will be in a better position to influence the judge.

 

If you need anything else, please ask. If I can’t help you, I’ll find someone who can.

 

Els

[electric lemon]

Hi Elsinore,

 

Your advice is much appreciated.

 

I saw on another thread that there is a case that could be quoted (?Wincester V ?) which stated that a default was illegal if the amount claimed for included charges, which mine does.

 

I had PM'd Sequenci but he/she is on a training day & so asked me to contact PT3573? But Ive not heard anything yet.

 

I cant quote Judges I know but there is a Judge that appears to be fairer than the one I had last time (Name similar to the Man in the ****).

 

If I get the other one I may not be so fortunate as he was far from considerate last time & got very agitated when I quoted legal stuff to him.

 

I will take your advice and request an adjournment. Its the only thing I can do really. Excellent of you to suggest - thank you.

 

CL Finance have never turned up & its been to court twice already, so I shouldnt think that they will tomorrow. They'll just send a letter that the judge will read out.

 

Awaiting Paul PT3573.

 

Leccy

x

[electric lemon]

Hi again Elsinore,

 

I found it!

 

Its The:

 

"Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd V Swain & Co, NLD 14 July 1998"

Dont know how to get at it though?

[electric lemon]

Anyone...pretty please?!

[Lula]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/110146-car2403-hfc-bank-default-4.html

 

Hi Leccy, click the link there was a case on here using it

[caro]

Have you tried the cases library. I find the forum libraries are often the best source of information. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-library/

[Santos L Helper]

Hi el,

 

Don't know if there is anything you could use amongst this lot, but Michael has made a really comprehensive consumer-wiki sticky

here>>>>>http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/123374-consumerwiki-z-index.html

 

Everything is hyperlinked up and contains shed loads of information:cool:

 

Also anyone else who hasn't seen this take a look, its the mutz.

 

Regards

 

Santos

[pt2537]

EL,

 

i replied to your pm,i have a copy of the case youre looking for if you let me have your email by pm i will send it to you

[electric lemon]

Hi all,

 

Back from court - here's what happened:

 

The security guard chatted to me on the way in about what was in my handbag (the weight!). He also asked me if I knew where I was going. I replied that I did, and was looking forward to seeing Judge " man in the ****", as he was really nice.

 

Whereupon he agreed with me and said that I wouldnt be so fortunate as this Judge had now moved to Torquay!!!!!!

 

My first negative.

 

Went into Court - had only been there 5 mins when I was called.

 

Dread of dreads a male solicitor stood up & followed me in. I felt like I had had it. This was the last thing I wanted to see.

 

My second negative.

 

There who should be sat in front of me was Judge "not so nice" from before. My heart well and truly sank.

 

Anyway, the solicitor went straight for the jugular stating that I had had more than enough time to file a Defence & CC, hadnt & so they should be awarded their claim.

 

The Judge retaliated that in fact it was him/CL finance that were in breach & that he was forgetting that he/CL finance had not, despite judges orders furnished missing statements since ordered to from August & so was worse!!!

 

It was brilliant! I couldnt believe my ears & that this was the same Judge. Increased my confidence in him I must say.

 

I took this opportunity to speak up, and stated that I hadnt been able to complete a Defence & CC as the statements were still missing & that this was a breach on CL finances part, and because my mother had been so unwell.

 

I asked for an adjournement based on these facts. I then quoted the "Woodchester case" and that without the information being furnished by CL Finance that their claim may be deemed illegal & that I would request for it to be struck out. I got no reply to this other than...you appear to have been doing a little homework!

 

The Judge then said that he felt that an adjournment was appropriate and that he would give me enough time to prepare my defence. He asked CL's solicitor if he had any objections which he stated that he didnt.

 

The Judge went on to say that the time span also included him (the solicitor)& that he was giving CL Finance until the end of January only to furnish the missing statements. The Judge asked if Feb 29th was ok as a date to complete my Defence/CC, which I said it was.

 

He then said that he would request a date not before March 24th to return to Court but said that this wouldnt be the final hearing. (dont know what that means?).

 

The relief I cannot tell you was immense.

 

Many thanks you guys that have been around the past couple of days. I am so grateful to you all.

 

Now have to get to work on the main work & prepare really well, though may still need some advice & help if thats ok with you here.

 

Love,

A very relieved & somewhat brighter & sharper Electric Lemon tonight!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[elsinore]

That's excellent Leccy, well done you!

 

Now you can relax and enjoy Xmas and still have plenty of time to prepare for the hearing.

 

As you have already seen there's plenty of assistance for you along the way.

 

Els

[Lula]

When you get the order through, post it up for us Leccy because, the judge may well tell them that if they have not furnished you with the relevant documentation by end of jan he will strike out their claim, so let us know, in fact, even if he doesnt say so in so many words, what is written in the order HAS to be complied with, on both sides, so come Jan 31st, if they havnt coughed up then we can put together a nice little letter asking hizonner to strike em out

[pt2537]

Well Done Leccy

 

its the result you were looking for,

 

now we have some breathing space to prepare a stonking defence for you

 

im really pleased for you

 

 

regards

paul

[Jeff2000]

Well done EL!

 

You done brilliant!

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

[electric lemon]

Wow - you guys really are terrific!

 

Thank you for all your really wonderful comments & confidence boosting moral giving words.

 

Feel really lucky to have you.

 

The Virtual drinks tonight are on me!!

[The GodMother]

Electric lemon,

 

I have read your Thread but not posted before. only caught up on it last night really. I have put sum drinks in the bear garden for you.

 

Well done.

 

Chrissi

[WormHasTurned]

Brave Girl!

 

Well Done for speaking up too!

 

I fully understand if you don't wish to mention it, but I'm wondering which westcountry court you were in. Was it a Devon city perhaps?

[hellhasnofury]

Hello EL,

 

Been keeping up to date with your thread, well done to you,

[caro]

Glad you have some breathing space, but don't rest on your laurels too much. Spend the time wisely making sure that you can do what the judge requires of you, and that you are fully up to speed with the arguments you want to use. That way, next time you go to court you can feel much more confident.

 

I'm so pleased you're still in there fighting though.

[electric lemon]

Hi Everyone,

 

Well not been here since the court case in Dec as a friend of mine very kindly offered her boyfriends services (he's a law student). He appeared very interested & most genuine in his enthusiasm to help & I really thought that I was sort of home & dry. NOT SO :0(

 

I have had to badger & badger him (not good for the soul) to advise me where he was with everything & what I could do to assist in any way, aware of my time schedule. He has stalled & stalled every step of the way, & now my friend went & dumped him (2 weeks ago) & Ive just got all my stuff & papers back, with a lame, lame pathetic excuse from him that he didnt think he was good enough to be able to help anyway!!

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!"£$%^&

 

I have had 3 migraines in the last week due to all the stress & am no further on with a deadline of 29th Feb/10 days with which to come up with another defence & counter claim.

 

Here are my details if anyone thinks they may be able to help, especially pt2537, if you are there.

 

In a nutshell:

 

1. Back in March 2007 received a default notice for an amount owing for £2135.00 to Ge Money. I didnt actually receive notification of this & it wasnt until I got a letter from CL Finance saying that they were issueing a CCJ if I didnt pay them outright. They didnt even give me an opportunity to make arrangements to pay them. This made me VERY angry.

 

2. Anyway, I filed a SARS to GE & also to CL finance as I beleived there were charges to the account rendering the amount innaccurate. Waited & waited got nothing. In meantime filed a defence stating this (lots of help from here - thanks masses,xx).

 

3. Went to court for a hearing, said that CL's claim was inaccurate & didnt have the statements & requested a strike out, whereupon Judge said...."here you are they sent them to me!!!!". I went through them & told the judge we couldnt continue as they had only supplied statements from june 05 - feb 07, and that 3 years of statements were missing!!

 

4. Adjournement was agreed. Cl were given 2 months to come up with the goods. They didnt, and when I went to court again in Dec 07, the judge as you know told them that they hadnt complied with his orders & had one last chance basically. He gave them until end of Jan to send them to me. 2 weeks ago a bandle arrived form CL of statements :0(

 

5. However, having gone through them with a fine toothcomb, there are still statements missing from:

Nov 2002

March, sept, oct 2003

March, june, july. aug. nov, dec 2004

Jan, march, april, june 2005

July, aug, sept, nov, dec 2006

Jan 2007

 

That makes 20 statements in total missing!!!!!!! STILL!!!

 

6. Ok, here is where I need help!

AS my defence has been that CL's claim is an inaccurate amount due to penalty charges can I quote the : "Woodchester lease management services Ltd v Swain & Co, NLD 14 July 1998"???

 

Do I do a S127 defence based on the fact that CL have failed to supply documents?

 

Can I state that the default notice is in breach & is ineffective as it specifies a sum exceeding that actually neccessary to do so???

 

Im going by the fact that from the statements that they have supplied there are 4 x £15 charges. As you know there are 20 statements missing. One would have to assume that there could be a further 20 x £15 charges that are penalty charges on these statements.

 

The fact that we cannot prove that there isnt is the thing I think.

 

That would make a total of £300.00

 

7. In addition, from going through the statements I notice that there are strangely Some figures charged to me that appeared from Dec 2002 - April 2004 under the description of "Account Cover Premium".

 

What the hell is that??????

 

That accounts for £189.00

 

Could these be further unorthodox charges like PPI????

 

This would make a total of £489.00 that should I think be removed from the amount owing.

 

However, Its been such a long, looooong arduous journey I'm damned if they should get away with all this.

 

Is there anyway that I can request a strike out as CL STILL havent come up with the statements, OR is the Judge just likely to say, ok just knock off the £489 & award the rest to CL??

 

I dont really care about the money, I will pay what I owe, its the damned CCJ that bothers me, terribly.

 

If there is help out there from anyone, I would sure, sure appreciate it.

 

Thank you tremendously.

 

Yours,

Electric

xxxxxx

[The GodMother]

well you can ask for a strike out as they still have not provided statements.

 

You can also as for the statements to again be got to you and when you recieve hem any money that you have been charged to be removed from the claim.

 

Or based on the fact they still have not supplied the statements and you cannont adequelty CC or do your defence then you can ask for the claim to be struck out. you would best ask Paul/ the courts for the relivant documents.

 

Chrissi

[pt2537]

Hi Everyone,

 

Well not been here since the court case in Dec as a friend of mine very kindly offered her boyfriends services (he's a law student). He appeared very interested & most genuine in his enthusiasm to help & I really thought that I was sort of home & dry. NOT SO :0(

 

I have had to badger & badger him (not good for the soul) to advise me where he was with everything & what I could do to assist in any way, aware of my time schedule. He has stalled & stalled every step of the way, & now my friend went & dumped him (2 weeks ago) & Ive just got all my stuff & papers back, with a lame, lame pathetic excuse from him that he didnt think he was good enough to be able to help anyway!!

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!"£$%^&

 

I have had 3 migraines in the last week due to all the stress & am no further on with a deadline of 29th Feb/10 days with which to come up with another defence & counter claim.

 

Here are my details if anyone thinks they may be able to help, especially pt2537, if you are there.

 

In a nutshell:

 

1. Back in March 2007 received a default notice for an amount owing for £2135.00 to Ge Money. I didnt actually receive notification of this & it wasnt until I got a letter from CL Finance saying that they were issueing a CCJ if I didnt pay them outright. They didnt even give me an opportunity to make arrangements to pay them. This made me VERY angry.

 

2. Anyway, I filed a SARS to GE & also to CL finance as I beleived there were charges to the account rendering the amount innaccurate. Waited & waited got nothing. In meantime filed a defence stating this (lots of help from here - thanks masses,xx).

 

3. Went to court for a hearing, said that CL's claim was inaccurate & didnt have the statements & requested a strike out, whereupon Judge said...."here you are they sent them to me!!!!". I went through them & told the judge we couldnt continue as they had only supplied statements from june 05 - feb 07, and that 3 years of statements were missing!!

 

4. Adjournement was agreed. Cl were given 2 months to come up with the goods. They didnt, and when I went to court again in Dec 07, the judge as you know told them that they hadnt complied with his orders & had one last chance basically. He gave them until end of Jan to send them to me. 2 weeks ago a bandle arrived form CL of statements :0(

 

5. However, having gone through them with a fine toothcomb, there are still statements missing from:

Nov 2002

March, sept, oct 2003

March, june, july. aug. nov, dec 2004

Jan, march, april, june 2005

July, aug, sept, nov, dec 2006

Jan 2007

 

That makes 20 statements in total missing!!!!!!! STILL!!!

 

6. Ok, here is where I need help!

AS my defence has been that CL's claim is an inaccurate amount due to penalty charges can I quote the : "Woodchester lease management services Ltd v Swain & Co, NLD 14 July 1998"???

 

Do I do a S127 defence based on the fact that CL have failed to supply documents?

 

Can I state that the default notice is in breach & is ineffective as it specifies a sum exceeding that actually neccessary to do so???

 

Im going by the fact that from the statements that they have supplied there are 4 x £15 charges. As you know there are 20 statements missing. One would have to assume that there could be a further 20 x £15 charges that are penalty charges on these statements.

 

The fact that we cannot prove that there isnt is the thing I think.

 

That would make a total of £300.00

 

7. In addition, from going through the statements I notice that there are strangely Some figures charged to me that appeared from Dec 2002 - April 2004 under the description of "Account Cover Premium".

 

What the hell is that??????

 

That accounts for £189.00

 

Could these be further unorthodox charges like PPI????

 

This would make a total of £489.00 that should I think be removed from the amount owing.

 

However, Its been such a long, looooong arduous journey I'm damned if they should get away with all this.

 

Is there anyway that I can request a strike out as CL STILL havent come up with the statements, OR is the Judge just likely to say, ok just knock off the £489 & award the rest to CL??

 

I dont really care about the money, I will pay what I owe, its the damned CCJ that bothers me, terribly.

 

If there is help out there from anyone, I would sure, sure appreciate it.

 

Thank you tremendously.

 

Yours,

Electric

xxxxxx

 

Hi Leccy

 

WOW, i am very drained,so apologies that i cant make a more informative post.

 

Do you have permission to file an amended defence?

 

have they sent you a credit agreement for this account?

 

if so was the consensus that it was enforceable or not? if there is no valid agreement then game over

 

however there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak

 

i will look in again tomorrow morning when i have had chance to recharge

 

regards

paul

[tomterm8]

we particularly need copies of:

 

1. default Notice

2. Credit Agreement

3. Notice of Assignment

4. their particulars of claim

5. Any defence filed, plus any amended defence filed

6. brief summary of what happened after the first hearing

 

I know this info is available on the thread, but it's a long thread and it is helpful if it is in one place.

[electric lemon]

Here are some details from the beginning though it may be in stages:

 

From page 2

The particulars of CL's claim are stated from them as follows:

 

1. The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £**** being monies due from the defendant to the Claimant under a regulated agreement between the Defendant & GE Capital Bank Ltd under reference **** **** **** ****, and assigned to the claimant on the &th March 2007 notice of which has been given to the Defendant.

 

2. The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon Defendant pursuant to section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

3. Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement, the claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 24.573% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgment, or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of £1.57.

 

Please also remember that I have in my hand a written letter from the solicitors dated 9th March 2007 saying that they hereby give notice that GE Capital Bank have by an assignment dated 7th March between GE Capital & CL Finance assigned the debt & that I am to pay CL Finance.

 

Oh & also the solicitors told me when I called that the claim went to the court on the 6th March. Despite me having until the 8th!!!!!!!

 

Just to remind...A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) went off on the 12th March to GE & also I requested all transcripts of conversations made on the same letter. They said there were no records of this!

[electric lemon]

A). Default Notice was issued on 22nd March by ...Letter says, GE Money, with address at bottom as P.O. Box 700, Leeds, LS99 2BD. States GE Money is a trading name of GE Capital Bank Limited.

 

B) Unfortunately, all name & address of mine is correct as is account number.

 

C) The default notice was issued before it was assigned to CL Finance.

 

D) I received NO NOTICE from GE Capital that the a/c was to be assigned. One day I had a normal statement & the next day I recieved a default notice from GE Capital!

 

E) The Default Notice state that I had until the 8th to pay in full or call with payment proposals.

 

F) I have written evidence from the solicitors headed - Notice of Assignment, dated 9th March. It states that they have an assignment dated 7th March made between Cl Finance & GE Capital Bank Ltd & assigned to CL Finance for the said sum of £****

 

G) I know that this probably cant be submitted as its classed as 'heresay', but for what its worth, a girl whom I spoke to at Howard Cohen Solicitors the day that I received the CCJ, said that GE had passed the debt to Viking Debt collectors on the 6th March, before the said time that GE Capital had given me to respond/pay!!!!! She was quoting from paperwork in front of her, & I would presume that as they have to show all paperwork pertaining to this situation in Court it would show up.

 

H) There have been charges to the account for returned cheque/late payments etc.

[electric lemon]

This was my defence:

 

On the 30th March 2007, the Claimants received by guaranteed next day delivery, a written request for a copy of the credit agreement the alleged debt refers to. The Claimants were advised that as this matter was subject to legal proceedings, the information requested must be furnished by the 8th April 2007, to enable me to file a complete defence and counter-claim. The Claimants have failed to produce a credit agreement to substantiate their claim that monies are owed under a regulated credit agreement.Therefore I do not acknowledge that any debt is owed to CL Finance.

 

The Default Notice dated the 22nd February 2007, was not received until the 3rd March 2007, which failed to provide the requisite fourteen days to remedy the alleged breach of contract, as required under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This renders the Default Notice invalid. Additionally, the amount requested in the Default Notice was in excess of what was actually required to remedy the alleged breach of contract. The amount claimed contains penalty charges, which are unlawful at Common Law, under The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. The Default Notice had to be accurate to be enforceable, the inclusion of penalty charges renders it legally invalid.

 

The assignment of the alleged debt from GE Capital to the Claimants is unlawful, as I have never been provided with written or verbal notice of the assignment, despite the Claimants assertion to the contrary. I put the Claimants to strict proof that notice of the assignment has been furnished to me.

 

I dispute that the Claimants are legally entitled to claim contractual interest at the rate of 24.573% per annum, accruing at a daily rate of £1.57, from the date these proceedings commenced, to the date of judgment. The Claimants have not proved that any agreement exists and what the terms and conditions of any such agreement are, which precludes them from claiming contractual interest.

 

I would respectfully ask the Court to stay these proceedings until such time as the Claimants provide the information I have already requested, or the Court orders the Claimants compliance with the same. I will seek the permission of the Court to amend my defence accordingly, should the Claimants provide the information they have to date failed to furnish.