I live in Manchester and want to sue Ryanair. Can I do this through the English courts or do I have to go through Irish courts ?

[SueRyanAir]

I am looking sue Ryanair for negligence and distress.

I am concerned that now after Brexit I have to pursue through Irish courts which is not viable.

 

Any help appreciated 

[Kyosanto]

Did you buy your ticket with a UK card and/or did it involve at least one UK airport?

Negligence and distress is a pretty unusual claim. Do you care to develop what happened and what you are claiming for?

 

[SueRyanAir]

Thanks for the reply.

I am registered as disabled for mental health problems. My carry on luggage was a little larger than the ticket, so, I was asked to pay a surcharge at boarding. This I am not disputing due to T&C.

 

At payment of the surcharge I was told that I could take my hand luggage with me and a label was attached to the bag.

On the apron, ground crew took my bag off me and then I realised it would be hold luggage.

On the flight I realised that I had important medicine in the bag and was worried that it might not arrive.

It did arrive but when I inspected the label it read that medicine and lithium batteries should not be packed in the bag. Also, there was a luggage receipt sticker that I should have been given.

I was disturbed for three reasons

1. Ryanair did not tell me that my carry on was to be hold luggage and I spent the whole flight worrying that it would not arrive as well as not been given a receipt. My medicine is specialized and can not be prescribed over the counter.

2. I have other Ryanair flights that I no longer want to use as they clearly breached standard security protocol by allowing power banks with huge lithium batteries in their hold. There is a reason why the label attached to the bag clearly stated no lithium batteries. I still have the label as evidence.

3. After reading the label upon collection I was deeply disturbed that Ryanair did not advise me as to what was written on the label and that I should have taken my medicine and power bank out and spent the whole break in France worrying what might have happened due to their negligence.

 

So, Ryanair did not show any duty of care and jeopardised the lives of not just me if my medicine had not arrived but the whole plane by allowing a power bank to be stored in hold without consultation before for a lousy few pounds.

 

I booked the flight through a broker, paid by credit card, so I did not make the purchase direct with Ryanair

[dx100uk]

the courts are not hurt feelings police.

 

dx

 

[SueRyanAir]

Interesting comment - may I ask your legal expertise?

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

Dx is a long-term member of the site team and advises on many legal threads. Nobody here is claiming to have legal qualifications, you would need a solicitor for thar.

What he's trying to say is that courts don't award damages for distress. 

Not all carry-on baggage stays in the cabin, any overspill normally goes in the hold.

HB

[SueRyanAir]

I am grateful for any feedback but I just find it strange to state that courts do not award claims for distress, especially from someone who is disabled for mental health reasons.

 

Thanks for the help and consideration 

[Bazooka Boo]

Lithium-ion or Lithium-metal batteries? What were the batteries for and were they attached to the device?

As for them being allowed into the hold of the aircraft, that has nothing to do with the carrier, it is down to the airport you flew from and their security procedures.

 

 

[SueRyanAir]

The label that was attached to my bag at the boarding gate clearly states no lithium batteries.

So, Ryanair should have flagged this when they decided to change my baggage to hold luggage and not informing me accordingly?

I was wearing spectacles so to assume that I had the capacity to read a label on baggage that I was told would still be carry on sounds very strange to me.

Basically, the girl who was responsible for processing the surcharge did not have a clue and just wanted me to get on the flight ASAP as the gate was closing. There are reports of lithium batteries setting on fire, hence why they are not to be allowed in the hold.

I appreciate your reply but struggling to see your logic ?

 

[BankFodder]

You don't have any cause of action – particularly because you haven't lost anything. Distress generally is not recoverable head of damage.

If you feel that you have been particularly affected by some action taken by Ryanair – then you should probably look at the Equality Act.

 

[SueRyanAir]

The lithium battery was a power bank, one of the biggest available on the market.

Ryanair did not ask any questions as to the contents of the baggage so I am concerned that they put surcharges over safety. The bag was no larger than any other carry on baggage and I have used the same size bag before as carry on

 

Interesting - so, you suggest that damages due to distress does not represent a bonafide claim ? Especially when it can be proven that the party you are claiming against has not shown a duty of care ?

[Bazooka Boo]

So you knowingly allowed your bag to be placed in the hold of the aircraft containing lithium batteries?

The scanners for baggage going in the hold are 3D and have no human input unless it thinks that there is a threat in the hold baggage, then the image is populated onto a screen for an operator to view and decide if it is a threat or not.

Once again, it isn't the carrier at fault here, it'll be whoever is the ramp agent, which is Swissport.

[BankFodder]

25 minutes ago, SueRyanAir said:

Interesting - so, you suggest that damages due to distress does not represent a bonafide claim ? Especially when it can be proven that the party you are claiming against has not shown a duty of care ?

Correct.

I don't think there is anything more we can help you with on this matter.

[SueRyanAir]

Sorry - I don't think I explained properly.

At the boarding gate Ryanair advised that my carry on luggage would incur a surcharge as it was slightly above the requirements for my ticket, although other passengers were taking on similar sized bags.

At payment of the surcharge I was not advised of the requirements of the label and was told I could take the bag onto the plane.

In between the boarding gate and entering the plane (on the apron) a ground crew staff literally snatched my bag off me.

I only really became aware of the issues with my medicine after the bag was snatched. I brought it to the attention of the cabin crew mid flight and my anxiety that I was not even provided a luggage receipt and they did nothing to easen my concerns that I needed my medicine as stated on the label attached at the boarding gate.

Upon collection of my baggage after several hours of worry I then found out after reading the label that my power bank could have killed everyone on the plane as Ryanair did not bring this issue to my attention when processing the surcharge at the boarding gate, not telling me that my carry on would end up as hold luggage 

[dx100uk]

1 minute ago, SueRyanAir said:

I then found out after reading the label that my power bank could have killed everyone on the plane as Ryanair did not bring this issue to my attention

as i said, the courts are not feeling police , - there are no if's or buts surrounding that.

the fact that you are disabled/have mental issues has nothing to do with the court, they won't care nor be remotely interested and quite frankly we don't care.

Such issues should never be used as an excuse to try and influence others into going along or agreeing with some tin pot idea that someone suffered damage and was distressed because someone else did/did not do something someone else doesn't now like and unnecessarily worried about something that wasn't their problem to worry about in the first place.

as for you future tickets, 

1 hour ago, SueRyanAir said:

I have other Ryanair flights that I no longer want to use as they clearly breached standard security protocol by allowing power banks with huge lithium batteries in their hold.

go do a section 75 claim or cancel through the broker or direct to ryan air using the normal processes.

[SueRyanAir]

Wow...Hope your day gets better 

[Ethel Street]

Any claim against Ryanair based on disability discrimination under the Equality Act 2010 will require you to demonstrate that Ryanair knew you had a mental health disability, or could reasonably have been expected to know. [section 15 (2)].

Did you notify Ryanair of your disability? If not why do you  believe they should reasonably have been expected to know you had a mental health disability before they put your luggage in the hold?

Likewise any claim based on Ryanair having a greater duty of care to you than to passengers in general because of your mental health condition would require you to prove that Ryanair had actual knowledge of, or should have known about, your mental health. Why would they be expected to have that knowledge in this case?

[whitelist]

Have to agree with the previous comment.

The Equality Act is there to limit treating disabled people less favourable than non-disabled people, not exceed.

Issue with lithium batteries and excess weight apply to all who use airlines.

When you book your ticket, they ask if you have a disability, so they can make special arrangements to assist you at the airport. If you did not notify them before arriving at the airport, then how can they make alternative arrangements?

[Kyosanto]

Hi @SueRyanAir,

I'm sorry that you felt distressed due to imagining what could have happened with your power bank, but I want to reassure you.

There was indeed a plane crash in 2010 in Dubai, UPS flight 6, which was caused by Lithium batteries catching on fire. But there were no passengers, it was a cargo 747 jumbo jet that was packed full with thousands of batteries, which all subsequently caught on fire via a domino effect and effectively led to the crash.

It was a very sad story which led to the lithium battery regulations that we have today, and passengers being asked not to pack lithium batteries in the hold as a precaution. Also fire supression system regulations and cargo hold container fireproofing was improved considerably as a result of the accident.

I need to also add that cargo fire supression is a lot more secure by default in passenger airplanes than in cargo planes, for obvious reasons.

While the rule to not pack lithium battery is a welcome added precaution, it's there to avoid hundreds of lithium batteries all catching on fire through another domino effect. It is a rule that is not stricly enforced, unless someone tries to sneak in 20 laptop batteries in their bag, which is not your case. The airlines are aware that forgetful passengers frequently pack batteries by mistake and tolerate that.

In the one in a billion chance that your power bank would have caught on fire at that moment (They almost never catch on fire spontaneously. Those incidents usually happen during charge, not when idle), then the fire would have very most likely been contained by the metal container that your luggage is placed in. At the first sign of smoke, the sprinklers would have gone into action (they are mandatory in passenger aircraft holds), and they use a special kind of toxic foam that supresses all sorts of electronic fires. The pilots would have been instantly notified of the fire system activation and made a landing at the closest airport by precaution, until the damage can be assessed.

Short version: you or the airport did not cause any risk of harm to anyone onboard, and I can guarantee you that at least a handful of other passengers on the same plane as you also had betteries in their luggage, and probably also didn't switch their cell phone off for take off!

 

For the medication part, this is very unfortunate, but it was ultimately your responsibility to ensure that you keep essential medication with you.

Now where you are probably right is that you were misinformed, or at least not explained things properly. And they should have let you know to take those items out of your bag more clearly rather than put a sticker on and assume you read it.

You could here make a complaint to the airport that they didn't do their job properly there, and by "they" like my site members have stated, it's not Ryanair but whoever does the ground handling (the poor underpaid Ryanair staff already has too many things to take care of!). Ryanair is actually 0% responsible here.

If you did so it is almost certain that as a best result, some low level employee will be reprimanded or scolded. It is not likely to go any further than that, and you're certainly not likely to be awarded any damage or compensation outside a "thank you for your feedback and sorry for your experience".

I also have to agree with my colleagues here that it doesn't seem you were treated unfairly, unless you requested additional assistance from the airline which they didn't provide.

Sorry that this is not the answer you wanted, but I hope you can travel with peace of mind in the future now that you know that a single passenger's mistake - in this day and age - cannot and will not bring an airplane down.

 

[SueRyanAir]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/03/03/faa-lithium-battery-fire-smoke-airplane/?sh=17101d14bb04

FAA: Lithium Battery Incidents On Planes Now Happening More Than Once Per Week

WWW.FORBES.COM

---

A Spirit Airlines flight from Dallas to Orlando was diverted after a lithium battery caught fire in an overhead bin...

I first thank you but this article differs from what you mention in regards to risk. There are many problems, hence why the label attached to the bag that was snatched away from me clearly stated no lithium batteries. 

A device does not need to be charging and can set on fire further to damage which the chance of happening is greatly increased if thrown into the hold of a plane.

So, I am sorry to disagree with you but the problem of lithium batteries included fire risk are far greater than you cite.

 

 

 

[SueRyanAir]

As you will read from the article, problems with lithium batteries on planes are happening around one per week.

By the way, as it was Ryanair who processed the payment for the luggage and coordinated it becoming hold luggage - why are airport staff responsible? I don't get it as under vicarious liability, Ryanair are responsible for the actions of contractors they engage?

 

[Bazooka Boo]

Are we still going on about this?

Ok, I hear you, I understand that you feel put out, and someone from Ryanair should apologise. 

Lithium batteries are put in the hold of aircraft every single day.

You're right, your bag shouldn't have been taken off you and placed in the hold, that is Swissports failure, not Ryanair. 

Nothing will be done even if you make a complaint, so try not to let it consume your thoughts and waste your energy.

[Manxman in exile]

22 minutes ago, Bazooka Boo said:

... You're right, your bag shouldn't have been taken off you and placed in the hold, that is Swissports failure, not Ryanair...

But that has happened to me on more then one occasion when the amount of cabin baggage has exceeded the space available for it.

What should happen is that the ground crew explain what they're doing and give the passenger an opportunity to retrieve anything they need during the flight.  If they don't do that tha passenger needs to be assertive and clearly say "Wait!  I need to get something out of the bag" and not stay silent.

@SueRyanAir  -  as everyone else has said you have no grounds for a claim against Ryanair on the basis of negligence or distress or for you worrying that something might happen that didn't actually happen.  The courts are generally only interested in things that did happen, not things that could have happened but didn't.

This sort of "less than ideal" situation happens all the time and if its going to cause you such distress and anxiety you ought perhaps to reconsider whether you should be flying at all

Edited August 12, 2023 by Manxman in exile