VCS Spy Car CCTV PCN - no stopping - Liverpool JLA

[breadman]

Hi All,

Im looking for a bit of advice on what to do with a charge of £170 that has resulted from stopping in the 'No stopping zone' around Liverpool airport.

 

I wasn't actually stopped on the road but reversed into the gates of a carpark that was off the road and waited for around 30 seconds before carrying on. I doubt the fact that I wasn't stopped in the road actually makes a difference but am wondering what my best approach is here,.

I moved house right after the alleged incident took place and had forgotten to update my registered keeper address of my car with the DVLA  all of the letters I have received have been going to my old address and were dropped off yesterday by my old neighbour.
 

So far I have received:

 

Charge Notice / Notice to keeper

Charge Notice / Final Reminder

Demand for Payment

Final Demand - All from VCS Ltd.

Payment request letter from Debt recovery Plus

 

Alleged incident date - 16/10/2022

Last correspondence from Debt Recover Plus - 06/03/2023

As mentioned all of these letters had been going to an old address I haven't responded or acknowledged any of them.

I will call the DVLA tomorrow to get my address updated at which point I expect Debt Recovery Plus to start chasing me via post at my new address.

 

Im considering just ignoring them entirely as id be none the wiser had my old neighbour not delivered the post but wanted to check what the best approach would be.

I have attached the latest letter from Debt Recovery Plus and the Final Demand for more detail.

I would be hugely appreciative of and advice and apologies if I have missed something important.

 

Thanks,

fine.pdf

[dx100uk]

where did you ever get the idea from that this is a fine??

 

and a dca is not a bailiff and has zero legal powers on any debt

no matter what type it is .

 

can you get this done please

you do not ever appeal

and there is no good ringing the dvla

you have to use the cars v5c and also dont forget to update your driving licence separately too.

 

dx

 

 

 

and scan up both sides of every letter in/out to one mass pdf please.

 

 

[breadman]

Fine may have been a poor choice of words, I should have gone with attempted extortion...

Hopefully these and the pdf cover everything.

1 Date of the infringement 16/10/2022

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 01/12/2022
 

Pages 8 / 9 of PDF. Issued date way later than 14 days of offence.

 

3 Date received Can not say, delivered to previous address
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, attached
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? Vehicle Control Services ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Liverpool John Lennon Airport
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

No, just gives the IAS details if unsuccessful with initial appeal

letters_compressed.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

The airport is covered by Byelaws which means that the land is not regulated under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. So only the driver is liable for the debt. Normally after 28 days the alleged can be transferred to the keeper but because PoFA is not involved, the keeper cannot be held liable and they do not have to respond within 14 days.

 

For some reason VCS appears to think that No Stopping is capable of forming a contract with motorists. It cannot as No Stopping is a prohibitive term. Nevertheless VCS are still raking it in because some motorists do not want to risk Court rather than argue their case. On top of that the most that VCS can charge in law is £100 so demanding £170  is sheer greed. 

 

First thing to do is confirm your new address with VCS and Debt Recovery Minus 1. VCS will not be happy as they would probably think that they might get a CCJ out of you as they are using the wrong contact with you. Oh dear. Never mind. They will be even unhappier once they see you have a strong defence for their crap case. 

Totally ignore D.Recovery they have no power at all. They are just there to scare you. But are totally toothless. Something akin to being savaged by a dead sheep to coin a phrase.

Do not use email as the last thing you want is to be bombarded by the rubbish that VCS  and DR would send. Just use second class stamps stamps for both of them and get proof of posting. Do not use registered mail or signed for mail. It's a shame the Post office doesn't have third class mail since that is about the highest level VCS could ever attain. Second class is too good for them.

 

[FTMDave]

How ridiculous.  The photos show your car "stopped", i.e. turning around, for all of 13 seconds.

 

They are out of time to create keeper liability, as you say - not to mention that it is not relevant land under POFA, as LFI says .

 

However, you can always trust Simple Simon to pursue a hopeless case all the way.  What happened with the open door?  You can be damn sure VCS will pick up on it and use it as an excuse to hassle you.

 

LFI is right.  You need to change your address with the charlatans, otherwise you risk a backdoor CCJ.  Something like --

 

Dear Simple Simon,

 

Re. PCN no. XXXXX

 

would you please kindly note that I am no longer live at XXXXX.  My new address is XXXXX.

 

Yours,

                 XXXXX

 

Invest in a 2nd class stamp and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

[dx100uk]

NTK is out of time

last page of PDF has your details showing.

 

dx

 

[breadman]

Ok new version of pdf added but doesn't look like i can delete the old one..

 

Il send two of those letters out today, thanks for the template.

 

DX - does the fact that the NTK is out of time mean anything in the long run?

 

FTMDave - yep the door was open, id actually just gotten off a flight and had picked my car up from the carpark I had left it on. A friend was a little slower getting through security so I stupidly thought I could spin the car round and pick him up from outside the airport. Then got all flustered when I noticed all the no stopping signs. Ended up reversing into that opening whilst my friend got in the car which is why the door is open on the photo.

 

 

letters_compressed.pdf

[brassnecked]

The most they can have from the Keeper is £100,  that's if they can make A case, with an airport no stopping a prohibition cannot form a contract, nor in reality should VCS have any jurisdiction where Bye laws apply.and follow what DX FTMDave and LFI tell you

[FTMDave]

On 27/03/2023 at 08:39, breadman said:

does the fact that the NTK is out of time mean anything in the long run?

Yes, they cannot use Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper - and they don't know who the driver was.

 

That means it would be very difficult for them to sue you, and if they did sue you you would be highly likely to win.

 

However, be aware that VCS are by far the most litigious of the PPCs and use court claims as a means of intimidation, hoping the motorist will wet themselves and give in.

 

Read some other VCS threads here and you'll get the picture.

[breadman]

Hi All,

 

Just had a response from Debt Recovery Plus after informing them of my change of address (attached).

Pretty generic letter similar to the one iv had from them before.

 

Haven't heard back from  VCS LTD yet.

 

What should be my next course of action? Im guessing I just ignore Debt Recovery Plus as previously suggested by @lookinforinfo??

DR_Response_04:23.pdf

[dx100uk]

yours is not the next move until/unless you ever get a letter of claim and a reply pack wanting I&E etc etc.

till then ignore everything.

 

is might help you cause if you go read a good few like threads in this forum reading vcs liverpool JLA airport.

them you'll know the score

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Just to check - it was VCS you informed of the change of address, right?

[breadman]

Yep, I sent the same letter to both VCS and Debt Recovery Ltd

[FTMDave]

Good news.  It was essential that VCS got the letter.

[breadman]

Great stuff, they havent actually acknowledged that they have received it mind. I do have a certificate of postage though.

[lookinforinfo]

You will probably get several further letters from DR minus each one probably saying Final Notice. A switched off hoover has more power than DR so never acknowledge them in any way. Nor worry about them as they can do absolutely nothing to you.

[breadman]

I wont bother informing you guys each time they send a repeat of the same letter, il report back when I get something thats any different, cheers

[honeybee13]

The only thing you need to worry about is a letter before claim/action. Or a court claim form. 

 

If you're not sure, it's best to check with us. 

 

HB

[breadman]

Another letter through from DRP over the weekend.

 

Another variation of the 'Pay Now' letter they have sent a few times.

 

There was also another 'Case Analysis' letter in there with it (havent seen this one when iv read other threads on this forum), same crap though really saying I owe them money...

 

Still no LBC/LBA or court claim form though.

[FTMDave]

So laugh at them and ignore.

[breadman]

Slightly more threatening letter arrived today, lots of red on this one to show how scary they are..

 

It states pre-legal action. Doesn't look like one of the LBA letters linked previously though.

 

Do i just ignore this one?

 

Thanks

 

2023-05-11 DR+ Terminal Notice.pdf

[dx100uk]

a DCA can't send a letter of claim.

 

and whatever a terminal notice is ..is beyond me...

[Nicky Boy]

They're just messing about with wording to make letters appear more like "court action" is imminent.

[breadman]

Il file that in the ever growing ignore pile then