PCM ANPR PCN Claimform - Overstay - Anchorwood Retail Park, Barnstaple, Devon ***Claim Dismissed + Costs***

[Lazy farmer]

A vehicle that I own but is insured for many drivers has picked up a PCN for overstaying a 2 hours free carpark (by an additional 2 hours)

 

Attached is a pdf of the notice.

 

The offence date is 28/02/22, posting date of notice 14/03/22, date notice is given 16/03/22 - does this put it beyond the 14 days i've read about?

 

Rather oddly the charge is £100 reduced to £100 if paid in 14 days, so no discount at all. I've just come back from a skiing trip so missed the 14 days anyway but would have expected a discount.

 

I have not contacted the company at all & not appealed.

 

It also says that if payment is not received within 28 days they have the right to recover the amount from the registered keeper - is that correct?

 

Please can someone advise if the notice is compliant & if i need to pay.

 

CAG have kindly helped me on a similar notice for stopping in Bristol Airport which I am still fighting - it doesn't rain it pours!

 

 

 

Anchorwood car park scan.pdf

[dx100uk]

Do the same sticky too please....

 

Dx

[Lazy farmer]

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

Please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 28.02.2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Date of posting 14.03.22, date notice is given 16.03.22
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

Uploaded in first post

 

3 Date received date received unknown as away on holiday  until 20.03.22

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Y
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, entry & exit photos
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] n

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/a

 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Anchorwood Retail Park, Barnstaple, Devon 
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IAS
 

T

[lookinforinfo]

Despite that they say that they are following PoFA , their PCN is not compliant. It wasn't even sent till the 14th day so it is out of time. There are other things wrong with it too but the timing kills it.

 

What that means is that the responsibility for paying the alleged debt cannot be transferred to the keeper. Only the driver is liable and there is no need for you to reveal the name of the driver even if you do you know.

[FTMDave]

What utter idiots.  So a 40% discount on £100 is now £100 is it?  It wasn't when I studied maths at school

[Lazy farmer]

Is there an obligation to offer a discount? I must admit it looked odd to me. 

[Homer67]

A discount on money that you don't owe? You're not thinking about this in the correct way.

 

If a mugger walked up to you and said "I'm doing you a favour by only taking your wallet and you can keep your watch" - would you say that was a discount?

 

You owe nothing, they can demand nothing as their NTK is out of time.

 

Ignore everything except a letter before claim but keep their free toilet paper for reference, there will be a lot of it.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Homer67
typo

[Lazy farmer]

Just received a Keeper Liability Notice saying that 28 days have now elapsed since their Notice To Keeper letter

 

they are now able to exercise their right under schedule 4 of Pofa to recover the charge from me. 

i categorically was not the driver & their notice was not received within 14 days of the alleged offence.

 

Should I wait until a letter before claim or save some paper & tell them this now?

 

[dx100uk]

Yours is not the next move.

 

Dx

 

 

[Lazy farmer]

Received a letter before claim yesterday from Gladstones Solicitors.

Says pay or fill in their online dispute form.

is this the moment to state:

I am the registered keeper but categorically was not the driver.

I do not know who was driving, the vehicle is used by many.

The charge notice was not received within 14 days so is not compliant with POFA and therefore the claimant has no right to transfer the charge to me.

?

[honeybee13]

Don't fill in their form, you could end up giving them information that they can use against you.

 

Do a search on CAG for a 'snotty letter'. Now is the time to let Gladdy's know that you'd be trouble if they tried taking you to court. If I'm thinking of the right law firm, most of the letters start 'Dear Will and John'.

 

HB

[lookinforinfo]

You are liable to get many threatening letters from various companies. All them can be safely ignored as you were not the driver and as the keeper you are not liable  to pay anything. Just relax. You are quite safe.

In the weeks or months to come you may receive a Letter before Action or something similar. 

Do not ignore that but let us know so that we can give them a riposte that should tell them to take a hike.

[Lazy farmer]

Evening.

I have today received a court claim form. 
You guys have been so busy helping me against VCS at Bristol airport that I forgot to respond to Gladstones letter before Claim.

Have I put myself at a disadvantage?

The defence for this one is that I was not driving & the charge notice didn’t arrive within 14 days so fails on POFA.

[dx100uk]

Full out the court claim sticky please .

 

Ignoring paploc does not hurt you 

 

Dx

[Lazy farmer]

Which Court have you received the claim from Northampton 

 

Name of the Claimant ? Parking Control Management

 

Date of issue – 09.sep.2022

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

1.The driver of the vehicle with registration ******** (the vehicle) parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the ‘Contract’) at Anchorwood Retail Park - EX31, on 28/02/2022 thus incurring the parking charge (the PCN).

 

2.The PCN was not paid within 28 days of issue.

 

3.The Claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the Defendant as the driver/keeper of the vehicle. Despite demands being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £100 for the PCN,

£70 contractual costs pursuant to the Contract and PCN terms and conditions,

together with statutory interest of £6.01 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% per annum, continuing at £0.04 per day

 

What is the total value of the claim? £261.01
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Had a letter before claim
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/a
 

[FTMDave]

You know the game from your other thread.  Acknowledge service.  Get a CPR request off.  Etc.

[Lazy farmer]

Yes, good point - I can follow the procedure from before.

just wanted to check I hadn’t shot myself in the foot not replying to the letter before claim - but all appears to be okay.

 

unbelievably in the same post today was a third CN (my bloody kids!)

And again date of event 24/08, date issued 06/09 but only arrived today 12/09- surely out of time again?

[dx100uk]

no within 14 days if its anpr

 

dont worry about the parking sticky

the one you've done is ok ive adapted your post

 

[FTMDave]

Please start a new thread for this latest invoice.

[Lazy farmer]

FTMDave - just posted new thread, thanks

[Lazy farmer]

So just reviewed all the thread from my first CN from VCS. 

I've re-logged into the MCOL with this claim ready to start a defence.

Should i modify my defence to merely state that i was the keeper but not the driver & that the CN was out of date for POFA transferring of liability?

Or should I put in the same defence as before which was:

 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

The amount they are claiming is £176.01 + £35 court fee + £50 Legal representation, original Charge Notice was £100 - 

 

[brassnecked]

Onr for the team, is it worth in an initial short  defence worth expressly indicating that if suing a keeper the £70 dca fee is not permitted under POFA?

[FTMDave]

@Lazy farmerThe second point  2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant  covers that.  You weren't there so you can't have entered into a contract.  And because we've worded it so generically the fleecers won't understand what you're arguing and won't be able to make up lies in their Witness Statement to counter you 

[FTMDave]

@brassneckedWe started to add the fifth point to cover the Unicorn Food Tax  5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

[Lazy farmer]

Okay, i've filed the defence as before.