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    • Good morning,    I just wanted to update you on the situation.    I have visits piling up with my current employment and they need doing before I finish at the end of this month.  I am moving to Wiltshire in 3 weeks for a new job helping care homes with their Dementia patients. I tried to work it out and at a guess I will be doing about 20-25,000 miles a year. So need a vehicle that can cope with that mileage, my old car would have done it easy but 🤷‍♂️ I have taken out a loan and got a friend to find me a reliable car that can cope with the miles and hasn't been written off in the past.   I phoned Adrian flux to see if I could use the last months insurance on a new car I have bought, the girl I spoke to phoned Markerstudy and asked them but they said no, my new car doesn't have any modifications.    I had an email from someone who saw one of my appeals for information, they live near the site of the accident and know a nearby farmer who has a security camera at his entrance that catches the traffic and specifically registration plates as he has been robbed before. They said they would reach out for me and see if he still has the data. Unfortunately it wont catch the scene of the crash.   The Police phoned me and said they were closing the report I made, even if they found footage of the vehicle at the time I said the actual incident would be my word vs theirs.  My first response was I am sure google maps would show that they turned around at that location which would verify my version of events, but upon reflection I do understand, I have seen people doing make up with both hands while driving, eating from a bowl steering with their knees and veering all over the place. I am sure some of these people go off the road and claim that someone forced them off.    Markerstudy phoned me yesterday to say that my car is now at Copart, the £80 tank of Vpower diesel was emptied on entry to the site for safety reasons, which I get but it sucks.  It is awaiting being assessed and shouldn't be too long, which is a relief.  I am really glad things do not seem to be going the way of the other stories and they seem to moving quickly.   However I was informed that my car was a structural write off before I bought it - this destroyed me, I was almost sick.  and this is going to affect any offer of money - after hearing the first statement this didn't affect me.   They need to wait for the assessor to check it over but it is highly likely to be written off and the maximum they can offer is £2300.  I was desperate for a car as I was working for an agency at the time, no work no pay, and did not do a vehicle check because I didn't know about them.  The seller did not tell me that it had been structurally written off, he told me that it had the front wing damaged while parked and was repaired at an approved repairer.  Markerstudy records state that it was sold at auction, no record of repair at an approved repairer.  I bought it bank transfer with hand written receipt.    It gets worse.    It turns out my airbags should of gone off. For some reason they are not working. I think we can figure out why.  If I had hit that car head on and had no airbags.    Some good news.    I can arrange a time with Copart to go and take my stereo equipment and any personal items that are left in the car only. I cant live without music and need quality sound, my speakers and amps are Hertz and JLaudio, (no I am not a boy racer with booming subs, I am an audiophile on a budget) I was really worried I wouldn't get them back so this is a huge relief for me. It is stuff I have built up over years of saving and collecting. Everything to do with the vehicle and mods I have declared need to stay to be assessed.   The accident has gone as a fault on my record, I have to remove 2 years NCB which means I still have some to declare which is good.  So it appears at this point that it may be resolved quickly, not in the way I was hoping, but not as bad as I presumed it was going to be based upon that tow truck drivers attitude and behaviour and the horror stories I read.   I am not going to buy the car back and try to make money with all the parts on it, I don't have the time or energy.   I may need an xray on my back and neck.  The whole situation has left me feeling physically sick, drained and I need it done.   The lesson learnt from this  -  My conscience is 100% clear, my attitude to safety and strong sense of personal responsibility - A rated tyres even if on credit card, brake fluid flush every year, regular checks of pads and discs, bushes etc, made avoiding what I believed to be a certain broadside collision possible.   Get a dashcam (searching now for the best I can afford at the moment)  -  Research your insurance company before you buy  -  Pay for total car check before you go and see a car and take someone with you if you are not confident in your ability to assess a vehicle.      Thank you to everyone here who volunteers their time, energy and information, it is greatly appreciated.  You helped my sister with some advice a while ago but we weren't able to follow through, she is struggling with long term health conditions and I ended up in hospital for a while with myocarditis, when I got out and remembered it was too late.  I am going to make a donation now, it is not a lot, I wish I could give more, I will try to come back when things are on a more even keel.    Take care
    • It seems the solicitor has got your case listed for this “appeal” but not for the Stat Dec(SD). You need to ensure you can perform your SD on the day. If you are able to make your SD in court, the situation you are in now is more straightforward than if you made your SD via a solicitor. You have been convicted of two offences (and two were dropped) via proceedings of which you were not aware. The way to remedy that is to perform an SD. No appeal is necessary (nor is it available via the magistrates’ court). If you are able to make your SD this is how I see it panning out: You will make your SD to the court. The court must allow you to make it as it will have been made within 21 days of you discovering your convictions. You will then be asked to enter pleas to the four charges again. At this point you should plead not guilty to all four but make the court aware that you will plead guilty to the speeding charges on the condition that the FtP charges are dropped. The prosecutor will be asked whether or not this is agreed. In my opinion the overwhelming likelihood is that it will be. If it is you will be sentenced for the two speeding offences under the normal guidelines. In the unlikely event it is not accepted,  the speeding charges will be withdrawn (they have no evidence you were driving). You have no viable defence to the FtP charges and so should plead guilty. This will mean 12 points and a “totting up” ban (as you have already suffered). You can present an “Exceptional Hardship” argument to try to avoid this (explained below).   Because of this, I don’t see any need to make an argument to ask to have any ban suspended (pending an appeal to the Crown Court) unless and until you are banned again. The only reason I can think the solicitor suggested this is to secure a (Magistrates')  court date. I was surprised when you said you had an appointment so quickly; a date for an SD usually takes longer than that. However, if you can use it to your advantage, all well and good. I can’t comment on the argument that the two speeding offences were committed “on the same occasion” as I don’t have the details. That phrase is not defined anywhere and is a matter for the court to decide. It’s an interesting thought (and only that) that such an argument could equally be made for the two FtP offences. If the requests for driver’s details arrived at your old address at the same time, with the same deadline for reply, it could be argued that you failed to respond to them both “on the same occasion” (i.e when the 28 days to respond expired) and so should only receive penalty points for one. Hopefully you won’t need to go there. I think you have information about avoiding a “totting up” ban. But here’s the magistrates’ latest guidance on "Exceptional Hardship" (EH) which they refer to: When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following: It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn. Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence; Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive. If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account. Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable; Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others. I must say, I still do not understand what the solicitor means by “As a safeguard we have lodged the appeal and applied to suspend your ban pending appeal due to the time limit for being able to automatically appeal without getting leave of the Judge.” When they speak of “leave of the judge” I assume they mean they have lodged an appeal with the Crown Court. I don’t know what for or why they would do this. It seems to follow on from their explanation of the “totting up” ban. If so, I’m surprised that the Crown Court has accepted an appeal against something that has not yet happened. But as I said, i is no clear to me. Only you can decide whether to employ your solicitor to represent you in court. If it was me I would not because there is nothing he can say that you cannot say yourself. However, I am fairly knowledgeable of the process and confident I can deal with it. That said, I do have a feeling that the solicitor is somewhat “over egging the pudding” by introducing such things as appeals to the Crown Court which, in all honesty, you can deal with if they are required. I can only say that the process you will attempt to employ is by no means unusual and all court users will be familiar with it. I can also say that I have only ever heard of one instance where it was refused. In summary, it is my view that it is very unlikely that your offer to do the deal will be refused. If it is accepted, you may be able to persuade he court that the two speeding offences occurred "on the same occasion" and so should only receive one lot of points. Let me know the details (timings, places, etc) and I'll give you my opinion. Just in case your offer is refused, you should have your EH argument ready. Whether it's worth paying what will amount to many hundreds of pounds to pay someone to see this through is your call.  Let me know if I can help further.    
    • This must be part of the new tactic from Evri.  They know they are going to lose. They take it to the wire and then don't bother to turn up in order to save themselves costs and of course they don't give a damn about the cost to the British taxpayer and the extra court delays they cause. This is a nasty dishonest company – but rather in line with all of the parcel delivery industry which knows that their insurance requirements are unlawful. They know that their prohibited items are for the most part unfair terms. They know for the most part that a "safe place" is exactly what it means – are not left on somebody's doorstep in full view. They know that obtaining a signature means that they have to show the signature not simply claim that they received a signature. They are making huge profits especially from their unlawful and unenforceable insurance requirement. Although this is less valuable than the PPI scandal, in terms of the number of people who are affected nationwide, PPI pales into insignificance. I hope the paralegals working for Evri are proud of themselves and they tell their families what they have done during the day when they go home.
    • Your PCN does not comply with the Protection of freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9[2][a] (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The only time on the PCN is 17.14. That is only  a time for there to be a period there would have to be a start and and end time mentioned. of course they do show the ANPR arrival and departures  times but that is not the parking period and their times are on the photographs not on the PCN. They also failed to comply with S.9[2][f] as they omitted to say that they could only pursue the keeper if they complied with the Act. That means that they can only pursue the driver as the keeper cannot be held liable for the charge. As they do not know who was driving and Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person they will struggle to win. Especially as so many people are able to legally drive your car and you haven't appealed giving them no indication therefore of who was driving. Small nitpicking point-the date of Infringement was 22/04/2024. They appear to be saying that they can charge an extra amount [up to £70 ] if they have to use a debt collector. You do not have a contract with a debt collector so they cannot add that cost. You paid for four hours so it can only be the 15 minutes they are complaining about. You are entitled to a ten minute minimum grace period at the end of the parking period which would be easier to explain if the car park had been bigger. However if you allow for two minutes to park and two minutes to leave that gives you one minute to account for. Things like being held on the way out by cars in front waiting to get on to Northgate or even your own car being held up trying to get on to Northgate at a busy time. then other considerations like having to stop to allow pedestrians to walk in front of you or being held up by another car doing a u turn in front of your car. you would have to check with the driver and see if they could account for an extra one minute things like a disabled passenger or having to strap in a child . I am not advocating lying since that could lead to serious problems [like jail time] but there can be an awful lot of minor things that can cause a hold up of a minute even the engine not starting straight away or another car being badly parked as examples. Sadly you cannot include the 5 minute Consideration period as both IPC and BPA fail to comply with the convention that you can include that time with the Grace period.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***


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Understood.  Excellent work.

You'll probably need to do a tiny bit of last-minute tweaking depending on what the fleecers write in their WS.

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And, if these expert friends ever have a bit of spare time on their hands, send them to over to CAG.😊

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We could do with some help from you.

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Please see the Notice of Trial Date doc that I was sent by the County Court.

Will I be notified of when the fleecers have submitted their WS? The MCOL website seems to have stop updating since they assigned the matter on to the County Court.

If not, where do I find this. I obviously have all their cut & pasted letters outlining their case against me after my response to their LoC, but I don't think that constitutes their defence WS, does it?

NoticeofTrialDate.pdf

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mcol closes upon allocaTION out to your locAL county court

THE PPC HAVE TO SEND YOU A COPY TOO JUST LIKE YOU HAVE TO SEND THEM YOURS. read the pdf ....by 7 days before hearing.

opps caps sorry

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for clarifying dx100

I may be being blind here, but I can't see anywhere on the pdf I just uploaded where I am being instructed to send my Defence WS to the fleecers? All I seem to see is that it instructs me that, "All documents and correspondences are to be sent electronically to xxxx County Court...." 

I'm sorry if I have missed something? Could you point me to where it is stated that I have to send my defence to them? I am getting somewhat overwhelmed here with paper. 😤

Also, I have told the fleecers I do not want to communicate by email, so should I post a printed version to them? Will thy have to have received this by 13th Sept? Or can I simply post it then and get a Post Office FPP?

 

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its std practice. to exchange witness statements (its not a defence!) 

actually thinking about i , if you dont get theirs by say 23:55 on the day it due, there is no harm in youremailing it even though you've said not to use email

play them at their own game!

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Be careful with that though. I've noticed on some letters that the fleecers / dodgy solicitors state that they don't accept service by email.

Have a quick check of their correspondence. 

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oh but its ok for them to send things out by email...nope cant enforce that if they've already used email sod 'em

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

CASE DISMISSED. 

Apologies for silence. I was asked to drop off any public areas and not share our course of action. I will revert with full defence and help for people on here asap.

But I have to wait for obvious permission from the legal team.

the judge dismissed the case on the grounds that there was no real opportunity to consider the Ts&Cs of 'the contract' before entering the DOZ.

 

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  • AndyOrch changed the title to NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***

Congrats topic title updated.

 

Andy

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Well done on your victory!  👏

 

Is it 3-0 now?  This court victory, the one they "should" have issued at Gatwick airport but their software messed up, and the one they cancelled?  Just leaving the one Gatwick hotel parking one in limbo?

We could do with some help from you.

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Excellent another dodgy fleecer claim vaped.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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That was beyond a Tolchok it was a vapourisation Dave😂🤣

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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On 20/09/2023 at 16:41, MoaningCrusader said:

CASE DISMISSED. 

Apologies for silence. I was asked to drop off any public areas and not share our course of action. I will revert with full defence and help for people on here asap.

But I have to wait for obvious permission from the legal team.

But basically, the judge dismissed the case on the grounds that there was no real opportunity to consider the Ts&Cs of 'the contract' before entering the DOZ.

 

Asked by who?

Was the case dismissed or did you agree to a settlement via Tomlin Order (which you may not be at liberty to disclose).

If the judge dismissed the claim then I cannot see how you agreed to any confidentiality concerning a claim that was heard in an open court.

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i believe this person as well as cag advise used a a firm of solicitors (why i dont know! ) and they are the ones restricting his freedom of speech.

a tomlin does not restrict you from revealing its contents nor the outcome of a case. thats not what the associated clause means.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The case was dismissed. 

We did not want to post any further plans on here as anyone can read this thread, including the fleecers, if I am correct.

I had a barrister in the end, who worked pro bono because he himself was caught out by the DOZ at Heathrow and wanted to test his argument in a court, but couldn’t on his own case as it was discontinued as soon as they found out he was a barrister. We had to hide his involvement as we were concerned should the fleecers discover it and discontinue the case. 

We are currently going to the press about our case result. 
 

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Yes we are going to major national newspapers. The instructing solicitor's firm (who also was a victim of the DOZ at Heathrow) has a PR department who will be handling this. We are waiting for the judge to sign off a drawn up summary of her judgement, as we don't want to pay for the transcript which could take months to be produced. 

We asked if we could use it to publicise the fact the fleecers use the Parkingeye vs Beavis to bully people into thinking they have no choice but to pay these charges. And in particular with my case how they use a completely irrelevant Supreme Court judgement to support their bullying, when in fact the judgements of the Law Lords in most cases supports the fact the likes of DOZs at Gatwick and Heathrow are unfair and unenforceable.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought I might put up some stuff to help any other CAGers hit with APNR DOZ penalty charges.

I am sharing a redacted:

1. My WS

2. The Defence Skeleton Argument (which was submitted later than the bundle)

3. Defendant's Authorities 

Unfortunately, I cannot upload the trial bundle as it's 52MB in size. But I hope the above helps people. Is there anyway of getting the trial bundle up?

I have redacted all documents. I hope I have got everything before I stop my Adobe subscription. Please should you find any info that you feel should be taken down, let me know.

FYI everyone I was strongly advised to not use any POFA in my WS etc. This is primarily because I would be unable to lie under cross examination from either the claimant's solicitor or the Judge. If I lied it would be perjury. Even if I did attempt to mislead the court (again not advised) it would not take long for them to find out through further cross examination that I don't have any other names on my car insurance, and even if I did, I would then be wrongfully naming them as the driver. Basically it's a very messy argument. I was also advised that POFA is being misread by all parties.

On the whole, I was advised to focus on the core argument of an unfair contract. The DOZ set up is clearly completely unfair, and therefore the strongest and really only argument with any real strength in this case. There's no point going into anything else. It would be different in a more standard car park set up. In fact, I have to stress this is all only relevant to APNR DOZ set ups.

The judge dismissed the case solely on the basis that the defendant had no 'REAL' opportunity to consider the Ts&Cs before being put under contract. The judge refused to carry on with any further judgement on our submissions. This was disappointing, as we wanted to get them on the fact that the contract was unenforceable in common law. I think the judge cleverly avoided giving a more controversial judgement in a Small Claims Court.

The judge did say that the parking charge amount was fair, and would not be drawn into the recovery costs submission, as the case had already been dismissed on the first submission of unfair contract.

PS There was an article ran in a major newspaper last weekend... I won't confirm it was me in the article... But the case is very similar. 

 

WITNESS STATEMENT_Redacted.pdf Gatwick DOZ - Defendant's skeleton argument_Redacted.pdf DEFENDANT'S AUTHORITIES.pdf

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Another avenue of complaint is that there appears to be only one way to pay. If you don't have access to wifi or your supplier's system is down for maintenance or repair you cannot pay.

I also recognise the problem you had when checking to see whether a payment had been recorded or not. I had  the same problem with TFL and their Congestion charge help facility. It is tantamount to a scam site. I wanted to know if my car had entered the Congestion charge area in the past four days. They said nothing had come up for the third and fourth days but couldn't confirm anything for the first and second days. 

They suggested that I could pay the charge  for the second day to cover myself but they would no give me a refund if no charge had been due and nor would they accept that payment could be transferred to the first day  if a charge was due from the first day. NCP could take lessons from TFL on how to increase their income.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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