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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***


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Understood - I was barking up the wrong tree about why payment wasn't taken.

 

I have a friend who is a software engineer and he's told me several horror stories over the years about important national companies getting software delivered which hadn't been tested properly and was full of bugs, and just didn't work properly - so it's no surprise that NCP's newly-installed system was rubbish.

 

Well done on the family WSs and keeping proof of the phone call.

 

Have an excellent weekend you too!

We could do with some help from you.

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I will do FTMD.

 

Now, after posting this morning... A Notice of Intention to Proceed arrived through my letter box from BW Legal.

I have uploaded a PDF below.

I am a little confused as they claim to be giving me until the 23rd September to settle in full with them. However, my defence was received but the courts on the 22-08-22.

 

I can't find the letter from the courts confirming  receipt of my defence, but they had stated the time for BW Legal to respond was limited. Is it that they have to respond to my defence within 28 days of it being submitted, otherwise the court puts a stop on the proceedings? So if they wait until he 23rd they will be out of time to take further action, will they not?

 

I have checked on my account on MoneyClaimOnline and no further activity has been registered other than the receipt of my defence.

 

LetterofIntentiontoProceedBWLegal14-09-22.pdf

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Just ignore BW Legal.  The letter is just a standard one they send out to try to scare people.

 

The dates are irrelevant, they are just pretending there is a deadline (that they have made up) after which things will get terrible for you.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks FTMD

 

In regards to LoC... I have included a sum of £200... But I would be more inclined to go for £1000 to cover the distress all of this putting me through.

 

In regards to the dates, the fact that they have failed to log a response to my defence could mean they are not going to proceed any further? Could it not? There is no response from them logged with the courts on my account. 

 

FYI I have just checked with MoneyClaimOnline. NCP/BWL have until the 26th September to respond to my defence with their intention to proceed with court action. A bit annoying, as I was hoping they wouldn't.

 

Tbh I have a feeling they are going to, as it would work out that they respond on Friday 23rd September to my lodged defence, as no settlement will be coming from me, I can assure you.

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dont get confused with this 28 days....

 

it not a hard stop date, and with the delays in courts, we've seen N180's filed months after any 'deadline'

 

its an autostay , its not reported on mcol either when a claim IS autostayed.

 

the letter you have is a std one , its in 100's of BW claimform threads here already.

 

i know we keep saying it but you must make it a habit to read pcn claimform threads in down times, not await the next wheel poking .

by keeping up poss everyday reading threads you will eventually understand the whole process, how it works, whats to come, how to respond and whats next after that, and all the little tricks the fleecers pull along the way.

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Everyone.

 

Well as I predicted, it looks like this claim is proceeding. I have just received a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track.

 

I have attached the form, but left off the generic info about mediation. I am assuming that mediation is not a course I should take as it would deem all my evidence un-submissable should I use in mediation. As anything brought up in that process is confidential and cannot be presented in court. Or is it?

 

The form itself looks relatively straight forward. Questions I have per section:

 

A. Do I agree to mediation first?

 

B. Contact Details - straightforward

 

C. I assume my answer is 'yes'

 

D. I would prefer to submit the defence in writing to avoid this taking up anymore of my time with having to actually attend a hearing. However, if you feel there's a higher chance they won't turn up to the hearing, then I'll go for it. I am just not available all of December at present.

 

E1. I suggest the nearest Magistrates to myself. Obvs.

 

E2. N/A

 

E3. I will be submitting written witness statements from those present when I went online to pay the drop off charge. But they will not be attending in person. I assume then I do not mention them here. Although I would love to fly my parents over and then charge NCP for this expense upon wining my claim! A nice wee holiday for him.

 

Do I need to send a copy of the completed form to BW Legal as well? Or just the court. Having checked online, I don't think I can fill this all in through MCO.

 

I hope to hear your advice on the above asap. I must have a response to the court by 10th October.

NoticeofProposedAllocation23-09-22.pdf

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You respond as any other pcn claimform thread to the DQ n180.

 

Is the DQ showing as being send out on mcol status?

 

And I'm not sure where you think a magistrate or criminal court is anything to do with a civil court claim?

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Not all Magistrates ad Court buildings have a County Curt in them.

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We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thanks for your response Dx100.

 

So I will follow this course of action as found on a VCS pcn line

 

no to mediation

 

the rest is obv

 

3 copies

1 to court

1 to NCP minus phone/sig/email

1 for your file.

 

Yes, the DQ is up on my online MCOL account.

 

The form asks for me to provide a County Court hearing centre. When I search through the government website to find a court/tribunal for money claim near me, my local magistrates court comes up as nearest. Can you advise any further on this?

 

I was unable to find much on the submitting in writing. A few links to feeds would be helpful here.

 

I also appear to be the only one when I search for other threads on Gatwick Drop Off Zone PCN.

 

Is this the case?

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The Magistrates' Court is for criminal cases.  Yours is a civil case - look for the County Court.

 

It's a bad idea to accept the case being judged on the papers.  Firstly, there is no incentive for the fleecers, who are the ones who would have to travel to court, to discontinue.  Secondly, if you're not physically there you can't counter their lies or clarify stuff for the judge. 

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  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

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3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to sols (omit phone/sig/email)

1 for your file

 

dx

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks dx100 that clarifies things perfectly.

 

Can I ask... Why no to the free court mediation? Is this simply because these crooks will never agree to anything other than getting the their money?

 

Also, am I able to supply signed witness statements from persons present when I attempted the online payment with my WS when it comes to it?

 

What will I put for reasons why I want a hearing and not a determination on paper?

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you have nothing to mediate over, you dont want to pay a reduced sum, the claim is speculative.

 

as for witnesses, pers i would involve nor is there a need to involve, other people, 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Should read would not 

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

as for witnesses, pers i would involve nor is there a need to involve, other people, 

Why do you say this dx?

 

Nothing wrong with having a forum discussion now and again to mull over the best way forward!

 

We're only guessing, as it will depend on the SAR and the fleecers' WS, but there's fair chance further down the line that on the one hand there will be the charlatans with no mention at all of their malfunctioning equipment or the OP calling them to try to effect payment, and on the other hand the OP,  proof of the call on their phone, two WSs from witnesses who saw the attempt at payment and heard the phone call and the SAR showing the fleecers did sweet FA about following up the call.

 

Do you not think two brief WSs from other people in the car would be an advantage for the OP?

We could do with some help from you.

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Might be FTMDave if they are willing might complicate things if the fleecers want their appointed at last minute brief to cross examine the witnesses, Perhaps DX is thinking keep it as simple as possible to give fleecer's no other avenues of challenge.

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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As I understand it, the fleecers never send their own dodgy witness to court, so couldn't really complain about lack of witnesses to cross examine!

 

As long as the witness statements were short and to the point, it shouldn't complicate matters?

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks all of the above. I think it is good to discuss the merits of written witness statements in these cases. As with online payments, sadly there is very little way to evidence a system failure or payment attempt. As we can't recall our online activity on other people's websites easily.

 

I am going to draft my reasons for wanting a hearing and not going on a paper only course later and hopefully we can make sure that is watertight.

 

Now on note of recalling data etc. If anyone is reading this thread and dependant on itemised mobile phone calls as evidence. BE AWARE unless you are paying for itemised billing, your call records are only kept for 90days online! I have just went online to print off the evidence of my call to NCP on 20th Oct 2021 to discover they no longer have the calls on their system.

 

However, I did point out to my phone provider that if the police required this info for court, it could be found. The guy on the phone totally agreed and has now worked out that if you put in a SAR with your phone company for a particular day, it can be dug out and found and your itemised calls sent to you. PHEW! Here's hoping this happens quickly and without any issue, otherwise I'll be starting another SAR claim 🙄

 

Just lucky I spotted that at this stage and not at the point of submitting my WS and relevant evidence.

 

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Yes, a difference of opinion is no problem, I've often got things wrong or have been persuaded towards a change of strategy here.  It is a forum after all.

 

I didn't know about the 90-day phone record limit.  Well done in getting this sorted well ahead of time.

We could do with some help from you.

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We can discuss the written WS further, as we have time before it will be required. I tend to sway towards the side of keeping it simple. It would be a pain if I had to fly my parents back over.

 

The main thing is in regards to filling in this questionnaire is that I am not currently looking to have any witnesses giving evidence at the actual hearing. So I will just enter '1' into E3.

 

But if we can all agree, I would want to submit signed written ws from my parents and partner who were present and witnessed me going online to complete the drop off charge payment in relation to this pcn. If agreed, I assume I can include these signed statements with my full WS supplied before the hearing, once a date has been allocated

 

 

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