CEL ANPR PCN - POPLA unsuccessful -PAPLOC - Now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - paid have receipt too! ***Claim Discontinued***

[Annabooo]

Thank you so much, you are both super speedy and amazing. 

OK I will send it to the email address DX had provided. When I logged into my MCOL, I don't see any options for me to responding to the DQ. Only responding the to Claim Form originally. I can only see the transactions and saw that the claimant filed a DQ.

 

I will therefore send my N180 by email instead and send a 2nd class copied version (omit my personal details and signature) to DBCL (which is on the claim form for sending documents to). 

 

Will do that right now. Thank you again for your help. 

[FTMDave]

Point noted for the future about the e-mail address dx - thanks.

[Annabooo]

Hi there, my claim has now been transferred to my local court. Just waiting for the court to write to me. 

 

To be honest, I am not sure where the camera is. Must be when I have entered into the main car park.

 

CEL sent me the invoice with a picture including the time of my car entering the car park.

 

The time my payment went through was like 15mins after entering their car park.

 

Calling the number on their boards to pay took about 5mins altogether.

 

At first I thought I entered the wrong registration but that reason wasn't valid.

 

they have accepted my payment and still decided to invoice me because the payment didn't go through within their '10mins' time frame.

 

Not that I left the car park and didn't pay straight away. I made sure payment went through before I left the car park. 

POPLA's response was that everyone else's payment went through fine and if my payment didn't go through on time then it is not CEL's fault. - I was actually shocked with this response. 

 

I had a little toddler and elderly mum with me. it took time to get us all out of the car and for me to figure out how/where to pay. Their machine didn't accept card payment so that wasted even more time.

 

I believe I can argue that their system is slow and they took my money already. Not like they refunded me so our contract was agreed and completed the moment my payment has gone through. 

will see what happens. 

 

I believe as long as you have paid and got the receipt, I don't see how they can win the case.

 

I will keep you posted.

Goodluck! 
 

[lookinforinfo]

Could you please post up their WS when you receive it.

 

Further points for your WS.

 

ABC Solutions  no longer exist.

Their name was changed to ABC Facilities back in November  2019 their signs without the additional Facilities Company being included on the signs should not be there.

 

Also ABC Facilities are not members of BPA or IPC. and their accounts are overdue with an active proposal to strike them off.

 

ABC FACILITIES MANAGEMENT LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

---

ABC FACILITIES MANAGEMENT LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

 

Thank you for posting their signage especially the one entering the car park.

 

Since it only states that the T&Cs are in the car park it does not offer a contract there it is just an offer to treat. That means that as there appears to be no strictures on the payment machine about the ten minute rule, then you accepted that offer to pay rather than the one that wanted paying within ten minutes.  [The offer to treat].

 

I am unsure that ABC can operate in that car park since they are not members of either parking authority which means that they do not have to observe the PoFA regs. It seems wrong that they can have signage there at all.

 

I know you didn't get much change out of the DVLA  but perhaps escalating to the ICO asking them if its right that ABC parking can still have their name on parking signs when they no longer exist and its successor ABC Facilities does not appear to be registered with the ICO.

 

My pet tortoise reacts faster than the ICO so likely that they won't reply before the Court case. Perhaps mentioning that the  case is getting close might spur them on.

 

But having their view from a legal standpoint could help you if there was so timely help .

 

 

[Annabooo]

@lookinforinfoThank you so much for the detailed message above. Let me see if I can make a complaint to ICO. Is it the Information Commissioner's Office? 

 

Thank you for also looking up on ABC Facilities Management! Can't believe ABC Solutions doesn't exist anymore yet they still tried to use that name. Let me log a complaint anyway! - This is all soo confusing, all these different companies involved. But I am learning so much from you guys as it is happening. - Very interesting indeed to see how they all operate. 

 

As for the DVLA, I didn't get far with them because CEL is registered with the BPA therefore DVLA can release data to them if they request to. I can see the whole set up is all dodgy!  

 

I will post their WS as soon as I have receive it. I actually feel excited going to court! 

 

[lookinforinfo]

Just don't go out trying to get more parking tickets so you can end up in court again!

 

If CEL are reading your thread they may decide to drop your case just to disappoint you.

That's how mean they can be.

 

Yes it is the Information Commissioner's office..

[Annabooo]

@lookinforinfoNo I won't go around causing trouble and get more parking fines, but this process has given me more confidence and understanding of the law better. I did wonder if CEL would ever read this thread, but they probably are too busy focusing on sending out invoices to motorists everyday. Anyway, if they drop the case, that is good with me also. I am not going to waste my time or energy on this. Will just do what the court orders me to do. 

What is 'offer to treat'? I did want to pay at the machine and it even have a card slot on it but the machine didn't accept card payments. Only when I returned to look at the machine properly, it says  coins only! Why did they even have a card slot if it doesn't even work, again very misleading.  

 

I looked at ICO website earlier and it is asking me to submit the email chain from me and DVLA and all the photographs and documents to support my case. Is it even worth me doing that? They will probably brush me off like DVLA and not mention anything about ABC. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Annabooo

[lookinforinfo]

In order to even attempt at claiming motorists accept  the contract on entering the car park the very least the **** could do is to include all their T&Cs at the entrance.  very few do that since it is hardly possible to read all the terms as  well as driving into a car park. So most of the time the entrance sign says private land and the rules are inside.  So that cannot form a contract with motorists until after they have entered, parked and read the rules.

So when the regs. are inside the car park no contract is offered at the entrance-just an offer to treat. And if inside the car park there are several different signs showing different T&Cs the motorist can accept the most agreeable terms to them from the sign and it is the norm that when you pay at a machine you are agreeing to the terms on the machine as opposed to those on the signs.

 

ABC Parking and ABC Facilities are not members of the BPA or the IPC so it seems strange that they can dictate T&Cs especially when one of those companies no longer exists. It is also questionable whether they can state that extra charges will be added if payment is not made within a certain period. And if they are in the form of damages they certainly cannot be charged since only the land owner can charge that. PoFA also says that all that can be claimed is the amount specified on the sign.  And the new Government  Private Parking Code of Practice is totally clear that the extra amounts cannot be charged. As that is the will of Parliament Judges should accept that ruling . 

 

You are probably right about the ICO. However I think your local Trading Standards may well be more interested in the situation there. Both because there are three different companies involved, one no longer exists  and one is not a member .Plus the signage goes against the Law and is ripping off motorists. as well as probably not having planning permission.

[Annabooo]

Hello everyone! I hope you are all doing well. 

 

It has been a while and I have been waiting patiently for the court to write to me. However, I haven't heard anything from the court.

Then on Thursday, DBCL wrote to me again responding to my CPR request back in October (6months later) even though I wrote in their letter to 'respond to my CPR request within 2 weeks'. 

 

Their letter is saying their client is prepared to make me an offer to conclude this matter. They have also attached CEL's Confirmation of Authority. 

So funny because they don't realise that we know ABC Parking Solutions Ltd doesn't exists! Don't know what kind of Law firm DBCL runs! 

 

Do you know if there is a deadline for the court to give DBCL to move forward with this?

This claim has been transferred to the County Court back in mid Jan. 

 

DCBLegal Letter March 2023.pdf DBCLegal Confirmation of Authority.pdf

[dx100uk]

they dont HAVe to respond to a CPR request, its totally voluntary.

however, they will have to disclose every document as exhibits in their WS.

 

just await the N157 allocation/directions from your local court.

 

dx

 

 

 

[Annabooo]

Hello Everyone, it has been a while. I have received the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track a while ago. 

Deadline to send my documents and witness statement was on Monday 19th which I have completely missed. I think I will have to call the court and see if I can send it tomorrow. 

 

 

Notice of Allocation to the SCT - June 2023.pdf

[dx100uk]

sorry where does it say 19th june?? for ws exchange?

is there a page two you've not uploaded??

ws exchange is usually by 14 days before the court hearing date....

[Annabooo]

Yes it was in the same envelop at the NOA to Small Claims Track. Point 6. I only looked at this properly now. I will get all my documents together and take it to the court directly myself tomorrow and pay them a late fee if I have to! 

It also says I should receive the WS from CEL by the 19th June as well but I haven't received this from them. I will need to send them a copy of my WS too. 

 

 

 

NOA - 1.pdf

[dx100uk]

you a a litigant in person, given certain leeway but its really no good vanishing for 2 mts!!!

do you have a WS prepared or done absolutely nothing not even been reading up in 2mts since you were last here?

i would simply ring and state your have not received the claimants WS yet...see what they say, you should not be paying anything..not your circus.

 

dx

 

[Annabooo]

WS statement all done and photos all printed. I will see if I can go to the court to hand this in and explain that I have missed the deadline. Better late than never! 

 

 

[dx100uk]

shame you've had bad weather this last few days that delayed you.........

 

[lookinforinfo]

You could point out that you were waiting for their WS and that you still haven't received it. Bit cheeky perhaps to ask the Court just yet to dismiss their WS when yours was late too but something to use should you actually end up in Court.

Don't forget to send your WS to the rogues as well. You can do that by email but block your email address after you send your WS to them.

 

[Annabooo]

The hearing is not until mid August and the court have my WS and evidence now. I also wrote on the letter that I still haven't received the WS from CEL so they are aware. I believe they will accept my WS because there is still time. Not like I submitted it a few days before the hearing and they don't have time to look at it. I also like to believe they won't dismiss my evidence just because I have missed the deadline by a few days.

On the hearing date, I will just present my receipt to the judge and tell them I have paid and CEL have accepted my payment. CEL can explain to the judge why they took me to court. I can't imagine even without my evidence, how CEL can explain they have accepted my payment but it was late therefore they have issued me a PCN. 

I have also sent my WS to CEL at the same time yesterday via recorded post. CEL have until 14th July to pay the court fee for the hearing to go ahead otherwise the case will be struck out. - They may drop it at this point. 

I do not want to waste too much of my time on this. 

I will keep this thread posted of the outcome after the hearing date. 

Thank you everyone for all your support. I would have probably given in a long time ago if it wasn't for you guys and I am so grateful for this forum. 

[lookinforinfo]

When or if you receive their WS you can always add a supplemental WS if their WS is factually inaccurate or something they wrote needs amendment as it will be slanted in their favour.

[dx100uk]

no-one at the court looks at anything till the judge on the day.

 

 

[Annabooo]

I also think that the court might not even notice that the deadline has passed. 

Lookinforinfo - noted. Thank you, I will bare that in mind.

All I can do now is attend the hearing in August and expect to receive their WS. 

[dx100uk]

you scan up all the ws inc exhibits here ASAP.

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Can we see what you wrote in your WS please?

[brassnecked]

WE do need to see what you submitted in case you do need to rebut something they chuck in in challenge.

[Annabooo]

Hey guys, so so sorry. It has been a crazy few weeks for me. 
See my WS attached. 

I will post the claimant's WS if I ever receive it. 

I look forward to winning in court. 

 

Witness Statement .pdf