CEL ANPR PCN - POPLA unsuccessful -PAPLOC - Now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - paid have receipt too! ***Claim Discontinued***

[FTMDave]

Apologies.  I forgot to mention.  Write COPIED TO CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD at the bottom of the letter.

 

Then DCBL will know you've sussed them and have communicated with their clients directly.

[Annabooo]

oh yes, I will do. Thanks a lot for your help. 

[Annabooo]

Claim FOrm.pdf

 

Well well well, guess what had come through the post last week while I was away! 

I will request 28 days to prepare my defence. - It says I can do this online on www.moneyclaim.gov.uk which I was already given my claim number and password to log in., Or do you recommend I fill this out and post it next day recorded delivery? 

I have found the Defence form template which I will use to write my defence. - 

Such a shame it has come to this, but I am not giving up. 

 

 

[FTMDave]

I'm rereading your thread and CEL really have a hopeless case, but are no doubt using the prospect of court to to try to intimidate you into paying.

 

Well done on looking up what to do.

 

Get Acknowledgement of Service done.

 

Then send a CPR request to DCBL.  Get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

[lookinforinfo]

As Dave has said they do have a weak case.

 

First you can claim frustration of contract because their system prevented you from paying within their time restraints. (,, Perhaps part of their plan to increase their income.)

 

And of course you did not accept their contract until you made the payment. Plus you paid.

Misguided chucklebuts.

[dx100uk]

Still fill out that sticky please

.

 

Dx

[Annabooo]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Northamptom NN1 2LH

 

Name of the Claimant ? CEL

 

Date of issue – 06 Oct 2022

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

 

1.The Defendant(D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge (s) issued to vehicle XXXXX at Butterfly Walk Car Park Denmark Hill London SE5 8RW.

 

2. The PCN details are 17/05/2021 xxxxxxxxx.

 

3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s).

 

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN(s) is outstanding. The Contract entitles C to damages.

 

AND THE CLAIMATE CLAIMS

1. £170 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages

 

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pusuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.03 until judgment or sooner payment.

 

3. Costs and court fees. 

 

What is the total value of the claim? £274.12

 

 

Thanks all.

 

Frustration of Contract! - that is so funny. Yes they have a weak case. I am confident! I have all evidence in a folder so will now need to put it together. 

OK, I am trying to get my head around this. 

I have just completed the Acknowledgement of Service online to give me 28 days to file my defence. 

Next step is to send a CPR Request to DCBL? Do I write to them (a letter) to request for more information and then post this? 

I will complete the sticky above.  - Thanks again. 

 

Ok just found the template for CPR request on the forum! I will use that. 

Will get this posted to them tomorrow. 

Thanks a lot. 

 

[lookinforinfo]

I see Dcbl are up to their old trick of double charging . How do they get away with it,?

 

What with frustration of contract and frustration from CEL that is surely enough doubletons for one day.

[Annabooo]

I can't be bothered to let it get to me, so I am just going to get on with my life. 

I am forever so grateful for you guys and this forum to guide me through this. 

 

I will put my defence together this week and maybe run this through here before I submit. 

Just out of curiosity,

 

what claim can I make if I win?

 

I should be able to claim the court fee and legal representative cost, right?

 

Do I need to find a legal person to act on my behalf and put the claim through for me? 

I read that I should keep my claim separate to this if I have any? 

[dx100uk]

our generic bland Defence is further down the Q&A you filled out. Don't miss that date whatever happens.

 

Dx

 

 

[Annabooo]

Yes I am aware my deadline is on the 8th November. I intend to submit well before anyway. Just need to sit down properly do this. 

I saw the defence briefly. I look at it properly this week. 

 

Thanks again for all your help. 

[dx100uk]

Doesn't give you xtra 28

 

Once AOS, it's 33 days from date top right Claimform.

 

Don't miss it no matter what.

 

Post defence here 1st don't file early.

 

Dx

[Annabooo]

I will definitely post the defence here first, thanks. 

Don't file early?

When shall I file?

Is there a reason?

 

If they see my defence first, they can make something up?

 

I am learning as I go! 

 

Yes I am aware it is 28days + 5 days from the claim form issue date. 

[FTMDave]

To answer your questions, the small clams process is very easy, there's no need to get someone to do it for you.

 

If you win you can get your costs for time off work, postage, etc.

 

That's unless the judge decides CEL have been unreasonable in litigation and in that case you can claim preparation time.  Given their rubbish case, that's at least a possibility. 

[lookinforinfo]

Annaboo if you read some of the successful cases at the top of the Private Land Enforcement page you will find a number of people who have had dealings with the Court. Not one of them have said it is scary especially as they won there.

It is very informal-you refer to the Judge as Sir or Madam [thank you again HB] . and then you win. 

[Nicky Boy]

... "and then you win"... LOVE IT!

[Annabooo]

Thanks all, I feel like I have won already because I can prove that I have paid and attempted to pay! 

 

Now I just need to send my receipt to the judge and then their case will be dismissed! 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Annabooo

[dx100uk]

You'll be filing our bland generic defence further down that Q&A sticky you did earlier 

 

You don't send or mention anything about your receipt in your defence.

 

Run the claim, it costs them money, then at the disclosure stage, you exhibit the receipt in your witness statement.

 

Dx

[brassnecked]

At this stage they would concoct some fiction that the payment was somehow invalid too little or you paid too late anything. You don't give them the opportunity.

[Annabooo]

Hello everyone, I hope you all had a wonderful weekend. 

 

I will be working on my defence over the next few days and submit it. Deadline is the 8th November (day 33 from the date on the claim form). When is it best to submit? I do not want to leave it to the last day. Ideally a couple of days before? 

 

This is the bland template I plan to use. Short and simple. This pretty much sums it all up, do I need to add anything? 

 

From my understanding, after submitting the defence. CEL's solicitors will then decide if they want to take it further by paying for the hearing fee. If they do, then I can submit my evidence and receipt to show that I have paid, and they have accepted my payment? The court will then decide if their claim is valid or not? 

 

Here is the defence: 

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXXX.

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by, and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

[dx100uk]

No the next stage would be N180 direction questionnaire s, if the claimant wishes to continue . 

 

You should have already!!  And need to read a good few 10's of PCN claimform threads 

 

Dx

[Annabooo]

DX100UK - Thank you for your response. 

So the defence is ready to go? - if so, I can submit it today. 

Next thing I should expect after submitting the defence is N180 questionnaire if CEL wishes to continue? 

[FTMDave]

The  defence is fine.

 

File it today if you want... but you could wait till say 7 November just to keep the fleecers guessing.

 

Yes, after that CEL will consider the defence and it is 99.99% likely you'll move on to DQ stage.

 

As dx says, the best possible thing you can do is read other threads with "claimform" in the title to gen up on the legal process.

[dx100uk]

no rush to copy and paste the defence yet but that looks ok to me.

 

so get reading up.

 

MCOL status will tell you if your N180 has been sent out.

just be aware the claimant may send you theirs early simply to intimidate and harass but with no intention of filing at the court.

 

dx

 

[Annabooo]

In that case, I will file it at the weekend so I can keep them hanging longer. 

I have read the Claimform thread multiple times already but will read it more just so I can understand it better. - Thanks a lot.