VCS SpyCar PCN now Claim Form - No Stopping - Bristol Airport

[Danny83]

Hi all.  Details are,

1 Date of the infringement 13/05/23

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]  issued 23/05/2023

3 Date received 29/05/202

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No, made no contact

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A, no contact made

7 Who is the parking company? VCS

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] BRISTOL AIRPORT, STOPPING IN A ZONE WHERE STOPPING IS PROHIBITED.  CAR STOPPED AT ZEBRA CROSSING

Claim Form.pdfNTK with photo evidence.pdf

I have received a County Court Claim Form and have confirmed I will challenge.  Any help to tailor my challenge would be appreciated 

[FTMDave]

Thanks for filling in the forum sticky so quickly and uploading the invoice - we wish everyone would do that!

You bad, bad person - fancy actually stopping at a zebra crossing.  In one of Simple Simon's no-stopping zones.  In fact the photos don't even show you as stopped, you could just have been slowing down.  We have seen VCS trying it on when someone stopped at a zebra crossing and a passenger popped out, but there is none of that in your photos.

So, have you done Acknowledgement of Service?

Did Simple Simon send you a Letter of Claim or so before starting court action?

And - between us - why did you, er, slow down at the zebra crossing if no-one was actually crossing?  Just asking so as to undermine VCS's predictable arguments in court.

Edited November 11, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo

[dx100uk]

please

 

[lookinforinfo]

The  PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act because airport land is subject to Bye Laws and is therefore not relevant land.

That means that only the driver is responsible to pay VCS and the keeper is not liable.  All you have to do is not to admit who was driving. And for example were you to say that I slowed down at the zebra crossing instead of the driver slowed down could be an admittance of who was driving.

[Homer67]

Their invoice is out of time to create keeper liability.

[FTMDave]

We need you to answer the questions if we are to help properly.

[Nicky Boy]

On 10/11/2023 at 23:19, Danny83 said:

I have received a County Court Claim Form and have confirmed I will challenge.  Any help to tailor my challenge would be appreciated 

Does this mean you have done the AOS?

If so when do you need to submit defence?

Come on Danny... we want to help you... give us a clue!

[Danny83]

Hi all.   Thank you for your responses and apologies for my tardiness.

I have done the AOS and due date is 28th Nov

 

I did receive a letter of claim before court action

 

That's reassuring to know that the keeper can't be held liable. Thank you for the information "lookinforinfo"

 

Also interesting that the invoice is out of time.  I did receive after 14 days but the postage date (on the letter) was at day 10 so I'm guessing they would say it was on time.  The letter didn't appear to be recorded delivery so I'm not sure how you would prove either way.

[FTMDave]

It would have been better to reply to the Letter of Claim to try to put them off taking you to court.  Having said that, VCS are by far the most litigious of the PPCs so a reply probably wouldn't have saved you.

Yes, lying about the date the invoice was sent, and having no postmark on the envelope, is par for the course for the fleecing PPCs and unfortunately judges let them get away with it.  Not that it will save VCS in this case as, as LFI has pointed out, POFA doesn't apply to bye-law land.

You have a great chance of beating Simple Simon.

[dx100uk]

On 11/11/2023 at 00:46, dx100uk said:

please

 

can you do this sticky please

23 hours ago, Danny83 said:

due date is 28th Nov

if you mean your defence...nope. do the above sticky and all will become clear to us and YOU.

dx --- urm my right foot was frozen couldn't get mt sick off.....1st dec by 4pm..

 

[Danny83]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Money Claims Online, County Court Business Centre, Northampton NN12LH

Name of the Claimant :  Vehicle Control Services, Sheffield, S9 1XH  

Claimants Solicitors: ELMS LEGAL Ltd, Sleaford, NG34 7TQ 

Date of issue – 31st Oct 2023

Date for AOS - 17th Nov 2023 

Date to submit Defence - 1st December 2023 

What is the claim for – 

1.The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. 

2.The Defendant's vehicle, xxxxxxx, was identified in the Bristol Airport on the 13/05/2023 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited. 

3. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver. 

4.The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. 

5. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct. 

6. The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. 

The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed  = 170.00

court fees = 35.00

legal rep fees = 50.00

Total Amount = 255.00

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? Yes.  Didn't reply

Claim Form.pdf

[dx100uk]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347310-legal-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track/#comment-5088148

3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (that the issues are so complex they need to be argued orally')

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to their sols (omit phone/sig/email) if no sols send to claimant

1 for your file

 

dx

[lookinforinfo]

With airport PCNs it doesn't matter if the ticket arrives within 14 days or not since the land is covered by Bye Laws which means that the onus to pay the PCN cannot be transferred to the keeper-only the driver is liable.

This makes it difficult for the rogues to win in Court since there are thousands of people who are legally allowed to drive your car and Court do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. 

[dx100uk]

open

dx

 

[Danny83]

Hi, 

It has been a long time but I have had confirmation claim will proceed to hearing in roughly 1 months time. 

I was wondering if anyone could advise on defence please. 

A few questions I have are:

1) I didn't notify VCS that I was not the driver of the vehicle and the judge may look negatively on this point.  I did not receive any direction in correspondence from VCS  that I should inform them if I was not the driver and that was going to be the foundation for may argument on this point.

2) The vehicle is stopped at a zebra crossing.  Based on the images from VCS for around 10 seconds.  At that time there is someone standing near the zebra crossing and someone else enters my vehicle.  I was going to raise the point that stopping at a zebra crossing when someone is standing near it is to be expected.  I was also going to ask the question how you can have a no stopping zone when there are zebra crossings where the driver is required to stop.

3) The no stopping zone is clearly signposted, however, no drop off or pickup is not clearly signposted with one small sign at the zebra crossing, parallel to the road and on the passengers side.  I was going to challenge that no-drop off or pickup is clearly signposted. 

4) VCS mentioned my initial defence was generic and clearly copied from the internet.  It covered 1) Claimant not being in a position to state if the Defendant was the driver at the time.  2) No evidence that claimant's contract with landowner supersedes byelaws & signage isn't legally binding contract. 3) No contractual costs and interest cannot be accrued on speculative charge. I am interested to know if anyone has had success or been unsuccessful with this 'generic' defence.

5) If I should submit an updated defence to the court based on questions 1, 2 & 3.  Or if it is better to only raise these points in court?

Thanks.  Any guidance would be appreciated  

[FTMDave]

19 minutes ago, Danny83 said:

1) I didn't notify VCS that I was not the driver of the vehicle and the judge may look negatively on this point.  I did not receive any direction in correspondence from VCS  that I should inform them if I was not the driver

Not at all.  The onus is on them to ensure that their invoice respects the provisions of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to establish keeper liability.  Which it can't as the area is covered by bye-laws.

21 minutes ago, Danny83 said:

2) The vehicle is stopped at a zebra crossing.  Based on the images from VCS for around 10 seconds.  At that time there is someone standing near the zebra crossing and someone else enters my vehicle.  I was going to raise the point that stopping at a zebra crossing when someone is standing near it is to be expected.  I was also going to ask the question how you can have a no stopping zone when there are zebra crossings where the driver is required to stop.

Spot on.

21 minutes ago, Danny83 said:

3) The no stopping zone is clearly signposted, however, no drop off or pickup is not clearly signposted with one small sign at the zebra crossing, parallel to the road and on the passengers side.  I was going to challenge that no-drop off or pickup is clearly signposted. 

Irrelevant as to whether you entered into a contract with VCS to pay them £100 if you didn't obey what was written on their silly signs.

23 minutes ago, Danny83 said:

4) VCS mentioned my initial defence was generic and clearly copied from the internet.

Who cares?  What about their ridiculous generic Particulars of Claim where they deliberately mix up driver and keeper.

And where do they mention this?  You haven't shown us anything.

25 minutes ago, Danny83 said:

5) If I should submit an updated defence to the court based on questions 1, 2 & 3.  Or if it is better to only raise these points in court?

Of course you have to prepare a Witness Statement and you'd better get on with it.

This is the problem here - you've disappeared for months & months, haven't kept us updated and presumably haven't read other VCS threads.  That needs to change - now.

Otherwise you will lose - simple as that.

For a start - please upload the court order which fixes the hearing date plus plus where "VCS mentioned my initial defence was generic and clearly copied from the internet".  We're not mind readers.

[dx100uk]

luckily like this thread

VCS/DCB(L) PCN spycar capture - PAPLOC Now claimform - no Stopping in Restricted Zone - Bristol Airport ***Claim Dismissed*** - Page 4 - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

although no on the crossing, same applies to you

so WS time.

there are numerous threads here on pedestrian crossing claimforms by VCS at Bristol and at other airports so use our enhanced google searchbox and find them.

really a bad idea to vanish for SIX months and not been have reading up here.....................

 

[lookinforinfo]

You can counter a Judges's question on why you didn't respond by pointing out that any company that charges you with stopping at a zebra crossing is likely to be of a criminal mentality and so unlikely to cancel the PCN plus you didn't want to give away any knowledge you had at that time that could allow them to counteract your claim if it went to Court.

There are many ways in which you can see off their stupid claim-you will see them in other threads  where our members have been caught by Met at other airports as well as Bristol. 

Time and again they take motorists to Court for "NO Stopping" apparently completely forgetting that the have lost doing that because no stopping is prohibitory and cannot form a contract. Yet they keep on issuing PCNs because so many people just pay up . Crazy .

You can see what chuckleheads they are when you read their Claim form which is pursuing you as the driver or the keeper. they don't seem to understand that on airport land because of the Bye laws, the keeper is never liable. 

 

[Danny83]

Thanks for the feedback

FTMDave. FYI this is the Claimant Witness Statement.  Point 13 relates to generic defence. 

Claimant witness statement.pdf

[FTMDave]

Thanks.

Time to move on this.

1.  You need to tweak the magnificent WS that dx suggested.  Adapt it to your case.  It should take you about half an hour (I recently wrote a WS from scratch during a train journey which wasn't optimum with lots of cross referencing and it took me an hour an half, you have one already cooked thanks to dx).

2.  We will add bits to ridicule VCS's WS - it's rich that they moan about your defence being standard when their Particulars of Claim are too and also include the rubbish about keeper/driver that has been criticised numerous times by the courts.

3.  Who wrote their WS?  Was it Mohammed Wali or Ambreen Arshad or have they got someone new?

4.  We need to see a good chunk of VCS's exhibits.  I don't get why we have to keep asking you for things rather than them being volunteered.  Isn't it obvious that we can't help you compile a decent WS if we can't see what the other side is arguing?  All their silly signs aren't needed, but any contract with the landowner is important as are all the photos of your vehicle.

5.  You've never shown us the court order which fixes the hearing date.  It should be obvious we need to see what the court has ordered.  This is the second time we've asked.

6.  VCS were using Elms Legal.  Are Elms Legal still involved? 

Edited June 5 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[Danny83]

Thanks FTMDave.  VCS's WS was from Jake Burgess. 

I will draft my WS and share with copies of court order, and VCS's exhibits asap.  I'm away tomorrow so more likely Friday.  Thanks again for the advice

  

[FTMDave]

OK, thanks.  Jake Burgess is well known to us - and well despised.

Friday would be great as then there would be the weekend to tweak things.

[dx100uk]

2 hours ago, Danny83 said:

FYI this is the Claimant Witness Statement.

we'll need all their exhibits too please

dx

 

[Nicky Boy]

Just a couple paragraphs their WS that it might be useful to refer to specifically in the OP's WS...

Para 6
A contract was formed with "the driver" of the vehicle.

Para 8
"The driver" accepted the contract.
(The "driver" is not named, or identified anywhere in the WS).

Para 7
WHY would there ever be a "no stopping" restriction in a car park? (In Para 10, they specify that it is a "car park").

Para 11
"The Defendant" became liable."
Again, they have not shown that the Defendant was "the driver", simply the keeper.

Para 20
"It is a matter of agreement"? Not really sure what they're trying to say here...

[lookinforinfo]

It never seems to amaze me how the chuckleheads think that No Stopping can ever offer a contract when it is prohibitory.

In any case you did not accept the contract by entering the land, you entered the land to get to the airport for goodness sake. In most car parks there is a Consideration period that allows motorists to decide whether they want to stay in the car park .

Here on a road, there is no consideration period and whether the motorist finds the terms agreeable or not even assuming that they are able to understand that they are being hoodwinked into believing they are being offered a  contract they cannot turn back. They have a plane to catch and even if they did turn back because they didn't accept the  No Stopping term of   the so called contract they would still have had to stop to turn around.

Plus there is a question of Frustration of Contract. You had to stop at a pedestrian crossing .