Backdoor £4k CCJ OPS/(GS Carpark)/QDR

[FTMDave]

Another question - did you request that the matter be dealt "at a hearing" or "without a hearing"?

[Impressmum]

Friday 31st March.

 

I guess I was being completely naïve .

We are told it will be in Chambers.

Letter just arrived from courts for the notice of hearing. 

 

States Notice of Writ and any other enforcement is stayed until further order. 

They have stated it will be 15 minutes in person. 

We didn't state in regards to hearing .

No one at the courts advised to tick any of these boxes 

[dx100uk]

On 19/05/2021 at 21:38, Impressmum said:

i will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form.

you will need this urgently, you should be at least telling the judge at the hearing they have never given you a copy despite repeated requests

 

a set aside is just a quick in out just to see if you have enough defence to justify a set aside of their ccj.

there will most probably be a full hearing (should the claimant request one and the judge grants it) at a later date where more detail will be gone into.

 

its then you'll have to construct  detailed witness statement to wipe out their whole claim.

 

[Impressmum]

When we spoke to a Money advice chap at the courts prior to completing this N244 form.

 

He said they would accompany my daughter when she has the hearing , as currently with our limited  information from OPS.

 

Once we gather this at the meeting and know what exactly it is they think they have , we will have a better understanding. 

 

My partner is going in with my daughter as he is better equipped in mind .

 

We need to have our notes prepared prior to going in.

 

I know from speaking to the court lady last week they have the call logs from me.

Which is helpful. 

 

[FTMDave]

Excellent news that the writ is stayed.

 

I have some ideas about showing up OPS as the uncooperative charlatans that they are, but work calls at the moment.  I'll scribble later this evening.

[FTMDave]

You know you're in the right, and we know you're in the right, but the judge on Friday won't know.  You have to look at this from the point of view of the court.

 

You lost a court claim two years or so ago and were ordered by the court to pay a sum of money by a certain date.  You have defied the court and not done as ordered.

 

This is because you suffered an injustice, you never received the court papers and had no chance to defend the claim.  The court system offers a remedy in such a case - to apply for set aside.  Yet you did not do so.

 

Sorry, but that will come across as someone who refuses to pay their debts and only jumps into action once the bailiffs are at the door.

 

What will you say when the judge asks why you didn't apply for set aside two years ago?  Presumably you'll blame OPS.  And then what if the judge asks what you have done in the last two years to push OPS to cooperate?

 

I'm not writing this to be a pessimistic old git but to think of pitfalls and how to turn the tables back to your advantage.

 

The first thing to do is to complain about OPS to the ICO  https://ico.org.uk/  Do that tonight if you can, if not tomorrow.  Tell the ICO what date you SAR'd OPS and that they have refused to respond, despite reminders.  That way you will be able to truthfully tell the judge on Friday that all this delay is due to OPS and that you have complained to the ICO about OPS.

 

Secondly, send OPS a Letter of Claim, again now if you can, if not tomorrow, their address is  [email protected]

 

(Yes, we normally say not to use e-mail, but e-mail is the least of your worries given your desperate situation).

 

 

LETTER BEFORE CLAIM

 

General Data Protection Regulations - Subject Access Request

 

Parking Charge Notice Number: XXXXX

 

To whom it may concern,

On XXXXX I sent you a subject access request for a statutory disclosure of my personal data under the Data Protection Act.

You have failed to comply with that request and you have now breached your statutory duty.

 

This has caused me a great deal of distress not having my data in order to understand who is sharing my data and what data you hold on me, together with the necessity to chase after you to get this disclosure.

 

The distress is exacerbated as your refusal to supply my data is making it impossible for me to respond to protracted litigation initiated by yourselves.

You have 14 days to respond.  Should you not, I shall begin a County Court claim against you.

 

Yours, XXXXX

 

 

This doesn't mean you have to start a court claim, but it means on Friday that you can truthfully tell the judge you have started court action against OPS for refusing to reply to your SAR.

 

Let's hope you get a sympathetic judge.

 

Let's hope the judge doesn't ask on what date you took this action.

 

Let's hope all this is done in such a rush that the fleecers aren't able to get their act together and turn up in court to oppose your application.

 

Good luck!

[Impressmum]

Thank you so much for the help and advice from you both. 

I appreciate that some things are late , but it's definitely worth completing and fighting  

We will get it all sent tonight.  

 

Thanks 

[Impressmum]

We sent the letter before claim file yesterday evening but haven't been able to complete the Ico

As I sent a letter handwritten in the post and have no copies and we have to upload documents to be able to continue with the complaint

 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Can't you just upload the proof of posting?  That will have the post code of the addressee on it.

 

As dx100uk wrote on the SAR thread -

 

tips for a successful sar......

use royal mail + free proof of posting.

do not use email

 

you MUST sign the SAR.

 

 

[Impressmum]

Cannot find it

[FTMDave]

Onto other vital points.

 

Anywhere you look about set asides, two points are emphasised.  The judge will want to know -

 

1.  why you didn't defend when you had the chance, and

 

2.  if you have a reasonable chance of defending the claim.

 

I suppose there is a logic to the legal system.  Regarding (1), if someone just couldn't be bothered to read the claim form then that's their own fault and they don't deserve a second chance.  Regarding (2), if they blatantly owe the money there's no point the judge setting aside judgement, giving them a second chance and they just intermediately lose all over again.

 

The Money Advice chap seems to have been on the ball regarding (1) in what you wrote to the court but hasn't done much on (2).

 

I see you're preparing notes for Friday - well done .- so make sure you have a little section DEFENCE.  Stuff like your daughter doesn't believe she was the driver.  That OPS have not established keeper liability.  Whatever else you can think up.  And if you're pulled up on the vagueness always emphasise that your daughter isn't sure because OPS have deliberately refused to hand over the evidence.

[brassnecked]

when you say OPS have refused to provide the required information that's when maybe broach the LOC for breach of SAR.keep calm its not adversarial in the manner of a US Courtroom drama or Crown Court

 

[FTMDave]

What happened on Friday please?

[Impressmum]

Hello 

Apologies . I was going to update but got so busy. Friday got cancelled.  We had an email Thursday late afternoon from the court due to lack of judiciary.  We will be informed of a new date. OPS data protection email came back to us with a looking into things,  so awaiting further email from them now. 

[FTMDave]

You won't appreciate the uncertainty, but I suppose a delay is a "good" thing.

 

The writ remains suspended.

 

The waters are now muddied regarding who is responsible for the two-year delay.  Part of the fault is yours.  Part is OPS's.  And part is the court's.

 

Have you managed to find the proof of postage for when you sent the SAR to OPS?  It would help a hell of a lot if you have.

[Impressmum]

Unfortunately no proof of postage found. I have looked through things, due to the  2 years, thing get lost in  cleaning and decorating and  refurbishment.  

[FTMDave]

OK, now that you're not rushing any more, I think you need to think through what you will do if the judge refuses the set aside.

 

I didn't want to be pessimistic before Friday, as if someone goes into court thinking they will lose then they won't prepare properly and will indeed lose.

 

You obviously have to prepare thoroughly and go before the judge and have a damn good go at winning.

 

But you have defied a court order for two years, and if you get an unsympathetic judge you need to be ready with a Plan B.

[FTMDave]

Any update? 

 

Have you got a new court date? 

 

Have the fleecers replied to the Letter Before Claim?  If my maths is right 15 days have passed.

[Impressmum]

Hello. 

No updates on anything. 

No dates from the court.  The OPS data protection are again yet to respond after we've confirmed the details of the vehicle etc 

 

No updates either from Dvla 

 

Received today. Now we have to respond to this email as the question to them is why do we contact ZZPS - I've Googled them after my daughter showed me the email right now. 

 

 

 

Email-1.pdf

[FTMDave]

Don't rush into anything.  I'm at work now but will scribble later this evening.

[FTMDave]

The fleecers are taking the wee wee out of you in a major way.

 

What a coincidence that this excuse of "not administrating" their own data was never mentioned when you made your SAR request but is now and on the very last day of the LBC deadline.  Yeah, sure.

 

Their site clearly states  https://oneparkingsolution.co.uk/privacypolicy/

 

YOUR RIGHTS

Under GDPR, you may request to:

be informed: we must make available this privacy notice with the emphasis on transparency over how we process your data.

access: you are entitled to find out what details we may hold about you and why.

 

As far as I know ZZPS are simply a bunch of debt collecting spivs.

 

In short OPS are lying and simply trying to not give you the information you need to obtain the set aside and ultimately win the case.

 

The question now is - what are you going to do about it?

 

We have had several other Caggers recently in the same position.  They sent the LBC.  Then sued for £200.  So far there has been a 100% record, with the fleecers immediately coughing up the £200 and also replying to the SAR.

 

The problem however is what if they don't.  What if they defend.  You didn't keep a copy of the SAR and have lost the proof of posting.

 

I don't want to harp on about mistakes but surely you can see what a mess your case has become.  No-one expects you to be a legal genius.  But simply to put the paperwork in a file, especially when you've lost the first round, and for four grand, with high court bailiffs a possibility - is simple common sense.  At least learn from this experience for the future.

 

It seems to me that you have a choice of three unpalatable options.

 

1.  Sue OPS, knowing you're legally in the right but have nothing to back up your story about sending them a SAR, meaning you could lose and have to pay their costs.

 

2.  Accept their rubbish about ZZPS, which will no doubt mean being passed to and fro between OPS and ZZPS and getting nowhere.

 

3. Give up on the SAR and accept having to attend a set aside hearing - and then if you win that the final court case - with the full Josef K treatment of not knowing what the hell you're being accused of.

 

Your unsavoury call.

[brassnecked]

It really is a find the lady 3 card choice.

[Impressmum]

You guys really give us alot to think about and yes we are some what incompetent for not being able to keep hold of proof of postage or keeping a draft of the original letter but who knew it would reach this stage. 

Many lesson learnt.  

This is why there are forums such as this for help for people such as myself. Who are thankful for people like you.  

[dx100uk]

and we still do not have a copy of the original additional particulars of claim for the PCN's claim.

dx

[Impressmum]

The Court didn't have the a secondary particulars on file when I've called. They said to check with OPS. I have mentioned this in the thread I believe.  You guys said to mention this to the judge as not supplied