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Apparently around 23% of those in hospital 'with' Covid are not there 'for' Covid but for other reasons.  I'd like to think this is one reason why the numbers of hospitalised cases among the vaccinated can seem high.  Does strike me as a ridiculous way of reporting the figures when they're trying to overcome vaccine hesitancy.  Feeds anti vaxxers arguments.  

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I think I read the other day that sadly some people have caught Covid in hospital.

 

Also that people have gone in for non-virus reasons and when tested have turned out to be asymptomatic but positive.

 

I don't know where they're counted.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Also that people have gone in for non-virus reasons and when tested have turned out to be asymptomatic but positive.

 

I don't know where they're counted.

These are the people being included on the figures for hospitalised 'with' Covid.  That isn't the reason they're in hospital though and as you say, they aren't ill with Covid, just +ve. 

Edited by hightail
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Perhaps consider:

But still infectious, so will need to be isolated from other patients, largely all of whoms' immune systems will not be at their best?

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

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“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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do we know how @snowdragon is currently since her pfiser jab?

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Hi

 I am fine ty, no effects at all atm :) xx  Only thing I have atm is a cold lol xx   I  ahve go for an echo-cardigraph  when I make appointment as my Doctor  found I have a heart murmer ! Never been picked up on ECG  

 

Sandy xx

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Posted (edited)

Heart murmurs are apparently surprisingly common and often never even known until something else highlights them. I like deep breathing exercises along with some tai-chi movements to maintain calm and physical benefits

 

Very Glad you are free from negative effects from the pfiser - and almost certainly starting to benefit from the improved protection

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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See in Australia,  they have the military out enforcing lock down, with helicopters and drones.

 

Could you imagine the reaction in the UK if the same strict enforcement actions had been taken.

 

In regard to UK, I think it is quite possible there will be further lockdowns during Autumn/Winter due to new Covid variants. 

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Looks like Christmas will be cancelled again then UB.  Kappa variant then?

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or even existing variants

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Yes very likely TJ.

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Government will be faced with very difficult choices.

 

I am hearing that some businesses are really struggling due to supply issues.  If they cannot sell the goods or provide the service, they may not have the cashflow to continue to pay wages. 

 

Any further lockdowns could force businesses to fail and Government may have to step in again with financial support to pay wages, as well as help with business expenses.

 

 

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Johnson doesn't care how much 'other peoples' debt piles up - its another consistent part of his history

 

Sunak will though ... even if its not focused on the reasons you or I would be worried

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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

Wonder if its the right-wing/q-anon/brexiter types being hit hard there?

If so hopefully their attitudes will be coming more into line with reality.

-  Whoever it is - Get jabbed

 

 

 

WWW.ITV.COM

The leaders of emergency and health services in the area are urging people to remain vigilant even though restrictions have been lifted | ITV News...

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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23 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Perhaps consider:

But still infectious, so will need to be isolated from other patients, largely all of whoms' immune systems will not be at their best?

True TJ.  It's more the effect such figures have on those who decry vaccination which bothers me.  That 40% of those in hospital 'with' Covid are vaccinated is one argument given against getting vaccinated for those looking for an excuse.  If it's only 15% of those admitted because of/needing treatment for Covid that's a very different picture.  The claim for the vaccine is that it will prevent severe disease or death and it seems to be living up to that claim.

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22 hours ago, snowdragon said:

  ahve go for an echo-cardigraph  when I make appointment as my Doctor  found I have a heart murmer ! Never been picked up on ECG 

 

Talking in general terms (especially as I don;t know the details of the type of murmur they've found, nor do I need to know to explain about the lack of correlation between ECG and murmur!)

 

Murmurs are related to flow (uneven / turbulent flow -> noise made).

Many are innocent and get found incidentally.

 

Echo-cardiography looks at flow, (using ultrasound and the 'doppler effect') so they'll (hopefully!) 'see' why there is a murmur (I say 'see', but the device 'hears' but converts that into a false colour picture, red and blue, of the flows).

 

ECG's (electro- rather than echo-cardiography) instead looks at the electrical signal associated with making the heart pump.

 

Someone can have an abnormal ECG with no murmur (the electrical signal is disordered, but the flow itself isn't turbulent enough to give even a slight murmur). There are LOTS of people walking around with AF (atrial fibrillation, a very common ECG abnormality) and no discernible murmur.

 

Someone can have a murmur (abnormal flow, indicative of a problem, or 'innocent' and merely an incidental finding), but a normal ECG.

So, never having anything picked up on an ECG doesn't rule in or rule out a murmur.

 

(For sake of completeness, and not suggesting this is the situation in your case!), a structural problem giving rise to a murmur can be significant enough to affect the electrical conduction, so a murmur and an abnormal ECG can be related. Equally, just because someone has a murmur and if they also have an abnormal ECG doesn't mean they are related ...... the ECG abnormality (or the murmur!) could have been there first, and they aren't related.

 

So, one might influence the other, but it is nowhere close to being 'causal link'.

 

So, expect an ECG (if you haven't had one recently) and the echo-cardiography - almost always a 'trans-thoracic echo' (TTE) to start.

Trans-thoracic: they look (using the ultrasound head) from the outside of your chest ; like an ultrasound in pregnancy, except from the chest rather than belly!

 

This gives a good enough view much of the time. Only if they don't get a good enough view (or for some specific conditions where the TTE doesn't give enough detail to rule them in or out) do they then need to consider a trans-oesophageal echo (TOE) - most of the time (for a murmur discovered incidentally, and not found when looking for a specific problem) the TTE is good enough.

 

You may get your answer the same day, or they might want the tapes of the echo reviewed by a cardiologist ; not getting your answer the same day doesn't mean there is a problem.

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, hightail said:

I saw the news of the price hike for vaccines.  Is there any claim they'll use the revenue to make more available cheaper to poorer countries?

 

Not only that. We are apparently going to throwing a load of pfiser/moderna away

Irritating to me as I have trying hard so hard to get one

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Doctors across England raise alarm as 170,000 Moderna doses at risk of expiry within fortnight

 

 

Oh and this will be a gov/PHE decision not NHS

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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In the US where there is a stronger anti-vaccine movement, the Hospitals are now becoming full in some areas. 

 

In the UK news reports are that those in Hospital battling Covid are unvaccinated Women. It would be interesting what data available reveals on this.  The average age of a Hospital patient battling Covid is also now apparently under 50 years old. 

 

It would difficult for everyone if  20 to 30% of populations  stubbornly refuse vaccinations, leading to continued lockdown periods or other measures being taken. Government won't allow Hospitals to be continually struggling with Covid patients.  Perhaps they need to separate out Covid patients into regional Nightingale Hospitals and let other NHS Hospitals deal with treating other patients, including the large backlog.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

Aspects of something already commented on here

 

 

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

An outbreak of respiratory syncytial virus, combined with growing Covid-19 pediatric cases, is straining hospital resources in some U.S. cities.

 

 

 

“After many months of zero or few pediatric Covid cases, we are seeing infants, children and teens with Covid pouring back into the hospital, more and more each day,” she wrote, adding that patients have ranged in age from 2 weeks to 17 years old, including some with Covid pneumonias.

 

“We are on the front end of a huge Covid surge,” wrote Dr. Haq, who could not be reached for comment on Sunday. “We are now having winter-level patient volumes of acutely ill infants/toddlers with R.S.V."

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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"Germany has become the biggest Western country to announce that it will offer vaccine booster shots to a wide range of people considered potentially vulnerable.

 

Israel, Russia, Hungary and France already are offering boosters to specific populations. In Britain, health officials are preparing to give them as early as September. And Italy and Spain have said they will likely make boosters available to certain groups this fall.

But none have indicated that they would go as far as Germany has. It wants to administer booster vaccines to older people, residents of care homes and people with compromised immune systems

— as well as anyone who was already fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson shots, which clinical trials have shown are not as protective."

 

-NYT

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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That was what Dr Richard North was suggesting at the beginning UB, keep Covid out of main hospitals to let normal service continue there, well as normal as possible.

Revisiting this might help as a reminder.

 

http://eureferendum.com/results.aspx?keyword=bring out your dead

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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and vast sums spent on 'nightingale hospitals', which weren't used in any real way

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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